Sound quality of DT...

[IslandInTheMaking]

What do you guys view as best examples of a good sounding record in this genre? I find this to be such a subjective thing that it would really help with gettin some context in this. I tend to favor albums wich have a personal sound, even with flaws, over albums that have no glaring problems but somehow lack character. For example: Opeths Still Life. I love the original mix. Acoustic guitars sound so beautiful and Mikaels clean voice conveys the emotion perfectly. It all adds to the character of that record. And of course talking about Steven Wilson.. I love Fear of A Blank Planet. The way he mixes the guitars on that album. It's constantly evolving, nearly every part has a different sound but still he manages to keep the whole thing coherent. It's really nice. But the Incident not so much.. example of an album that leaves me un enthusiastic. And I mean that only for it's sound. The music is another story. Musically I like it over FOABP.

[faemir]

[me7]

I don't like the original mix of Still Life. It has random volume drop-outs and the acoustic guitars on Benighted sound forcefully loud and not beautiful at all. The 5.0 mix made a few years ago is great, I only listen to this version nowadays.

My favourite souding recent Prog Metal albums are the ones made by Jens Bogren. This year, we had Haken's The Mountain and Leprous' Coal. Many here may have heard his work on James LaBrie's Impermanent Resonance, even though it's not exactly Prog Metal you can still hear how good it sounds.
Haken's The Mountain has a surprisingly strong Bass Guitar for Prog Metal standards. You can hear most Bass lines without additional EQing, the Bass suffers only when the music gets really busy during the heavier sections. The album also "dares" to be actually quiet during sections/songs that are supposed to be quiet as opposed to compressing everything to 11.
He was also responsible for Opeth's Ghost Reveries and Watershed.

[faemir]

Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.

Surround downmix to stereo it is

[Flacracker]

The album sounds great to me. I can even hear John Myung for a lot of the time so it is great by default.

[IslandInTheMaking]

Yes Jens is great.. so many great records and with nearly perfect track record. Amazing work. Still I prefer the original Still Life much much more. The Mountain sounds great, perhaps the best sounding record for this fall for me. But I have to wonder what would DT12 sound like with that exact production? I think it would lack too much punch for the likes of TEI and IT. So the end product would be that much blander perhaps..

[me7]

I agree that TEI sounds fine the way it is. This song really calls for a lot of dynamic compression. But right after it, TLG sounds really bad. TLG is supposed to start with an 80's-guitar-vibe, JP playing alone - than the whole band kicks you in the face - than JP alone again - than the band kicks in again, only it doesn't. Everything is compressed to 11, the whole band kicking in can't sound loud because JP alone is already at the ceiling. The insane amount of compression really works against the artistic vision in this case.

[ariich]

Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.

Surround downmix to stereo it is

I'm considering doing this once my CD/DVD combo arrives, particularly if the default stereo mix is so bad. Is there any particular process that "downmixing" should follow? I have no idea how I'd go about doing it.

[IslandInTheMaking]

I agree that TEI sounds fine the way it is. This song really calls for a lot of dynamic compression. But right after it, TLG sounds really bad. TLG is supposed to start with an 80's-guitar-vibe, JP playing alone - than the whole band kicks you in the face - than JP alone again - than the band kicks in again, only it doesn't. Everything is compressed to 11, the whole band kicking in can't sound loud because JP alone is already at the ceiling. The insane amount of compression really works against the artistic vision in this case.

I agree on the TLG intro, but I think that could have been addressed on mix as well. Why double the guitar so prominently if you wanted to accentuate the band coming in? The compression doesn't really change the apparent londness on the guitar in that section.

[faemir]

Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.

Surround downmix to stereo it is

I'm considering doing this once my CD/DVD combo arrives, particularly if the default stereo mix is so bad. Is there any particular process that "downmixing" should follow? I have no idea how I'd go about doing it.

Depends what you use - foobar2000 has a handy downmix DSP that you can either use as a filter or to convert to new tracks permanently.

[Dark Castle]

Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.

That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.

[chudm]

HD tracks vs cd, just a little bit better, but sounds better (like adtoe did)

[Zydar]

HD tracks vs cd, just a little bit better, but sounds better (like adtoe did)

That's great!

[BlobVanDam]

That looks a TON better! I want that!

[Onearmedmidget]

Can anyone check out what the "mastered for iTunes"  version is like? Any different than the CD?

[m0hawk]

So, what's the best way to listen to the album using a stereo set? 5.1 mix downsized to 2.0?

[convrge]

The HD Tracks version is a very respectable DR12.

https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46804

[Nofire]

My CD/DVD arrives tomorrow, but I've been listening to the album on Spotify, and it sounds MUCH better than the Soundcloud stream. I use the EQ on my phone, which helps to bring out certain things, but especially the snare has a bit more snap, and the bass sounds very rich and full. IMO the best bass sound in their catalogue. The guitar also sounds huge and very "chocolate-cakey", most notably in the chorus to TBP. Enjoying this album more and more!

[faemir]

Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.

That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.

This is the worst brickwalled album I've gotten in 2013 as far as I can remember, and it's not like Dream Theater are the stars of mainstream music that requires the brickwalling to stand out on the radio.

The 5.1 to stereo sounds just fine though, and alleviates a lot of my issues with the album - it's impressive how something as simple as a mix can influence how an album comes across.

[Kotowboy]

My CD/DVD arrives tomorrow, but I've been listening to the album on Spotify, and it sounds MUCH better than the Soundcloud stream. I use the EQ on my phone, which helps to bring out certain things, but especially the snare has a bit more snap, and the bass sounds very rich and full. IMO the best bass sound in their catalogue. The guitar also sounds huge and very "chocolate-cakey", most notably in the chorus to TBP. Enjoying this album more and more!

Yeah I know. I listened to the album on there at midnight on Monday morning and it was instantly better. Just so much more top end.

[jammindude]

Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.

That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.

This is the worst brickwalled album I've gotten in 2013 as far as I can remember, and it's not like Dream Theater are the stars of mainstream music that requires the brickwalling to stand out on the radio.

The 5.1 to stereo sounds just fine though, and alleviates a lot of my issues with the album - it's impressive how something as simple as a mix can influence how an album comes across.

You obviously never heard the new QR album.   Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.

[hefdaddy42]

I understand that there are technical reasons why some people don't like the sound.

But I think it sounds good.

[Kotowboy]

You obviously never heard the new QR album.   Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.

Never listened to Queensryche in my life but I wanna check out how bad this album sounds

[Juular]

Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.

Surround downmix to stereo it is

You must be doing something wrong then.

https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46802

Edit: Nevermind, apparently the person who made that also used the 5.1 audio downmixed to stereo and not the stereo mix. Since none of my dvd/blu-ray players support DVD-A, I can't comment on that mix.

[Lowdz]

You obviously never heard the new QR album.   Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.

Never listened to Queensryche in my life but I wanna check out how bad this album sounds

I really like the album but even I can hear the clipping, and I usually don't unless it's blatant (Death Magnetic and vapour Trails)

[mhanna49]

How did you convert to Stereo? I've tried using Downmix to Stereo in Foobar2000 and it just gives me smashed together mess of all of the 5.1 channels. I tried going to Audacity and deleting the channels I didn't need, but the tracks are not balanced in stereo properly.

[Delirious Nomad]

Yes, too bad, because the songs had potential. Much worse than Death Magnetic or Vapor Trails.
I can listen to the album (QR) with adding bass and cutting treble, but after the 35 minutes my ears bleed.
Can anyone name a worse mixed/mastered album ? I'm just curious.
DT is nowhere near that disaster. Some clipping, I can live with, otherwise kick*ss-in your face sound. In my opinion, the best production job of JP.
 

[Kotowboy]

I personally love how DT12 sounds. It's not as dry as SC and not so compressed that it hurts to listen to.

It actually sounds good turned up - unlike a lot of brickwalled albums.

[me7]

How did you convert to Stereo? I've tried using Downmix to Stereo in Foobar2000 and it just gives me smashed together mess of all of the 5.1 channels. I tried going to Audacity and deleting the channels I didn't need, but the tracks are not balanced in stereo properly.

You download SoX from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/?source=navbar
and use this command line: sox.exe "input file name" "ouput file name" remix -m 1v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,5v0.2929 2v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,6v0.2929 norm

This will give you a stereo wave file that sounds right.

If you need to convert it to 16bit 44,1kHz for burning on a CD, use this: sox.exe "input file name" -b 16 "ouput file name" rate 44100 dither -s
There is no practical quality loss by doing so.

[mhanna49]

You download SoX from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/?source=navbar
and use this command line: sox.exe "input file name" "ouput file name" remix -m 1v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,5v0.2929 2v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,6v0.2929 norm

This will give you a stereo wave file that sounds right.

If you need to convert it to 16bit 44,1kHz for burning on a CD, use this: sox.exe "input file name" -b 16 "ouput file name" rate 44100 dither -s
There is no practical quality loss by doing so.

Thanks. You just saved me a from getting a huge headache. lol

[GandL]

I goy my Deluxe edition today. I really like it, I cannot stop playing it 

[jammindude]

Yes, too bad, because the songs had potential. Much worse than Death Magnetic or Vapor Trails.
I can listen to the album (QR) with adding bass and cutting treble, but after the 35 minutes my ears bleed.
Can anyone name a worse mixed/mastered album ? I'm just curious.
DT is nowhere near that disaster. Some clipping, I can live with, otherwise kick*ss-in your face sound. In my opinion, the best production job of JP.
 

No...seriously...I can't.   As bad as VT and DM were, the new QR just really took hot mastering to an entirely new level that I didn't think was possible.   The quality music and the short length of the album help a bit...but that album is a hard listen.   Great music, absolute crap mastering.   Tom Baker should get his head out his ass or quit mastering CD's forever. 

[Kotowboy]

Apparently there's two new QR albums ? Which one is the worse one ?

[Dark Castle]

Frequency Unknown, The self titled is very very good, it just has terrible mastering.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah - I meant the mastering. JammingDude said it has worse audio than Death magnetic - I just wanted to hear it