Illumination Theory... (let's call it appreciation thread)

[ariich]

Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.

It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.

[Sycsa]

Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.

I'd expect something Disney to sound more simply positive and happy, while IT's orchestral section feels much more mature and complex in the emotion it's getting across to me.
It doesn't remind me of Disney, it actually reminds me of older movies, like Vertigo or something.

Disney movies in the '90s could get pretty grim and serious (or maybe it was always like that: https://youtu.be/NhQtW28StKQ?t=11m58s). Anyway, the first time I listened to it, I got a flashback of a 101 Dalmatians, which, coincidentally, was made within three years of Vertigo. The impression only got stronger later on, especially concerning part 9:32-10:15 (just can't stand that kitschy melody @ 9:43-9:53). Anyway, I hope it'll grow on me, because the song itself is a huge favorite.

It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.

I'm not trying to argue that it's Disney, I haven't even heard those songs for over a decade. It's just the impression that emerged from the stream of my unconsciousness. Anyway, it's the type of epic, over the top, cinematic melody that verges on pretentious and I have a hard time incorporating it into the rest of the song, as of right now. 

 

[ariich]

that verges on pretentious

wat

[hefdaddy42]

Anyway, it's the type of epic, over the top, cinematic melody

It's a very simple melody, nothing over the top that I can see.

[Sycsa]

I find the overall sound of said parts a bit too epic and grandiose, hence "over the top". Anyway, I don't want to get into semantics, obviously this is just my personal point of view. I don't mean to bash on the song, I'm biased towards it and I liked the idea of a slow, simple orchestra section in the middle (Close to the Edge popped in when I first read about it in the reviews), but I don't believe in euphemisms and this is the way I wanted to voice my opinion, just out of sheer curiosity to see whether or not anyone agrees. Opinions are usually highly mixed on DTF and seemed uncanny that everyone thought the orchestra section was so perfect. I'm really looking forward to joining that group soon enough.

[wolfking]

I don't hear anything over the top or cheesy with that section, I think it fits and it's great just the way it is.

[Mladen]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. 

[jayvee3]

Is the love for the orchestra section unanimous? Because -as much as I would like to love it- it just feels a tad cheesy, at least at this point. It reminded me of some Disney movies of my childhood, not an association I'm keen to have with DT.

It's pretty cinematic, but not Disney at all IMO. The most Disney thing that DT has written is the overture to Six Degrees.

I actually think 'The Best of Times' is pretty Disney sounding. When my wife first heard that song she was like "That's cute, sounds like it's out of Aladdin.. "

The orchestra section in IT is just gorgeous though, don't get Disney at all with it...

[mike099]

I love the orchestra section of the song, but not the part before it.  When I first heard it, I was a bit reminded of the end of COT with the nature sounds and it worked to end COT, but not IT.  A killer drum solo /bass solo would have been great in its place. 

[Marion Crane]

I really wish I enjoyed the song as much as most of you. I just really can't get into that ending. The cheesy, preachy lyrics, followed by the whaling vocals, followed by what is possibly the most meandering and uninspired lead Petrucci has ever done.

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.

Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?

[theseoafs]

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.

Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?

I believe he is jealous that Mangini can do something he can't do

[KevShmev]

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.

You cannot be serious.

[Lucien]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

That kit sounds beautiful. I would have loved for the drums to sound like that on the album

[Implode]

The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.

Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.

[adastra]

Last night I was driving my Mercedes and decided to listen through Illumination Theory.
I have to say that this song has propably the best JLB since Awake.. He sounds so amazing x___x 

[jayvee3]

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid.

Are you complaining of something that's barely noticeable and that hardly makes a difference in the song?

Unreal, isn't it... Welcome to the wacky world of DT fans! 

[ariich]

The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.

Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.

Bang on, it sounds absolutely nothing like baroque music.

[jayvee3]

Has anyone else noticed a few seconds in IT from about 2:55-3:02, it sounds like a real tip of the hat to the Crimson Sunrise in ACOS? Not sure if it's on purpose, but well cool nonetheless...

[Marion Crane]

And Mangini doing the single hand snare roll at the end just so he can hit the gong is just stupid. That's something appropriate for a drum solo, not in a song.

You cannot be serious.

I'm completely serious. 

[Kotowboy]

Well - he didn't need to do it one handed as it sounds slightly sloppy. They could have overdubbed one gong hit.

I do like how JP's solo screams into view at about 14:35. It's like he kicks the channel on and it announces itself


STFU Jordan - it's my time to shine.. Warrrggghhhh !!!! 

[nikatapi]

So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.

[Implode]

The first part of the orchestra is completely unfitting to the song. Sounds like a classical piece from the baroque era of music. Not a big fan.

Baroque era? I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Sounds pretty romantic to me. Many have called the Tchaikovsky influences too.

Bang on, it sounds absolutely nothing like baroque music.

Yeah! The baroque section is at 6:00, not the string section.

[wolven74]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. 

[Marion Crane]

So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.

I thought he said "you'll never know that your alive"

[Mebert78]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. 

Mesmerizing stuff.  Wow.

[IdoSC]

The second time I've heard it, I had so many shivers down my spine during the "To really feel the joy in life" section onwards. I kinda had tears in my eyes, but didn't actually cry, though the chills came over and over again for at least another 10 times.

This album has at least 3 songs I can officially consider some of DT's best work to date (The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Illumination Theory). The entire album is definitely in the better half of my top DT albums list, still not sure where I'd put it, but it's an amazing album really.

[minstrel]

Am I the only one who hears Jordan's nod to Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No 1 in the Illumination Theory's main theme (00:05, 10:18 etc.)? If you don't know what I'm talking about, listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItSJ_woWnmk, the theme shows up right in the beginning after the first piano chords.

And BTW, Martha Argerich is amazing, well worth listening to the whole thing in its own right. Tchaikovsky certainly knew how to write epics.

[Kotowboy]

  That has been discussed TO DEATH all over this forum. You're not the only one !

[minstrel]

oops, sorry :-)

[Kotowboy]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

Holy shit, this is amazing. Mangini needs to see this. 

Haha. I *started* when I was 15 !!!

20 years later and he's already better than I ever was !

[nikatapi]

So i've come to appreciate this song much more after repeated listens, but i don't really like JLB's singing at the part "You'll never know the joy of life", it sounds strained and is way to much for me, but overall it's a good song.

I thought he said "you'll never know that your alive"

Yeah i mean this whole section, i just gave the lyrics as a time reference. I think it is the worse JLB part on all of the album actually.

[Implode]

great song, one of their best in years. And some younger fans appreciates it too   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjlK5QzgawU 

I had no idea the drum part was this awesome. Too bad I have such trouble hearing it on the album. 

[Benedettosoxfan]

Anyone else HAVE to sing along with the echoing background vocals in the final section? Whenever I listen to it I just can't help singing along. It makes the whole finale feel so much more powerful.

[XB0BX]

Guys, was the middle section ripped off? I've heard a YT link to some classical song that sounded just like the intro to IT, but is all of the middle orchestral section ripped off as well? Near the end of the orchestral section, it reprises the intro melody, but there are some really pretty parts of the orchestral section that don't sound ripped off.