Author Topic: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review  (Read 30952 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2013, 11:43:56 PM »
I don't know if it was just this theater but I thought the footage was not sharp at all. It looked like I was watching a VHS tape...

It was probably 1080p, which isn't intended for a cinema sized screen. I'm sure it will look great on a large TV though.

Oh ok I figured it was something related to that. It will def look good on the DVD.

Oh and I stayed until the end credits and I saw your name again on there :) Good animations and congrats!

Thanks! I can't wait to see it for myself. :tup
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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2013, 11:45:24 AM »
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Offline Eren

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2013, 04:00:27 PM »
I'm just wondering how the strings ended up sounding. Especially The Silent Man, because some parts I composed are completely new. Also hoping the final release doesn't have the keyboard mix issue everybody's saying.

Offline SeRoX

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2013, 04:04:17 PM »
I'm just wondering how the strings ended up sounding. Especially The Silent Man, because some parts I composed are completely new. Also hoping the final release doesn't have the keyboard mix issue everybody's saying.

Merhaba Eren, öncelikle söylemek isterim ki, Türk bir müzisyenin DT ile çalışması gerçekten gurur verici. Severek takip ediyorum ve ediyoruz ve çalışmalarının devamını diliyorum.  :tup

BTW, it's just unfair that we can not watch it at the theater at Turkey. Have to wait the DVD.
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Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2013, 04:42:16 PM »
I'm just wondering how the strings ended up sounding. Especially The Silent Man, because some parts I composed are completely new. Also hoping the final release doesn't have the keyboard mix issue everybody's saying.

The strings sounded fantastic, both their sound quality and the compositions :) I particularly loved The Silent Man. Unfortunately, since only the first night was shown, we have to wait for the DVD to find out how Far From Heaven and Wait for Sleep sounded (I'm sure excellent, if Beneath the Surface and The Silent Man are anything to go by).
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Offline TheRich13

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #110 on: September 25, 2013, 07:31:53 AM »
Want to pre order Luna Park on Amazon but not sure which one 'cause the pictures and full descriptions aren't up yet....I want the Blu Ray with the audio CD's package...I know you can only get the audio CD's if you get them in the blu ray package...

So far they list : Blu Ray 17.98
                        : Audio CD 29.81
                        : DVD 34.99

Guess I'll have to wait a little longer before I pre order .Perhaps They'll straighten this out..
I'm thinking the one I want is the 29.81 package,,,,,
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #111 on: September 25, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »
Okay, my impressions are up!

https://www.ladyobscure.com/general/dream-theater-live-at-luna-park/

Thank you. Now we FINALLY have someone on record stating that JLB is not as good as on Score. The OP never addressed this unless I missed the post. Anyway, not being as good as Score is not an insult by any means and I'm still looking very much forward to hearing James, but at least now I'll have accurate expectations.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #112 on: September 25, 2013, 12:01:12 PM »
^ You are welcome! Yeah, that was one of the things I absolutely wanted to listen for and address in my article since everyone was talking about his vocal performance.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #113 on: September 25, 2013, 12:12:16 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #114 on: September 25, 2013, 12:19:29 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.

The closest I would say would be in Surrounded and he didn't sing it as he did on I & W.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2013, 12:34:48 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.

The trick for me was as I mentioned in the article to plug my ears at various points. That greatly reduced the distortion and allowed me to hear his vocals very clearly. He definitely sounded good, but not great, during songs like Metropolis and 6:00.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2013, 12:41:16 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.

The trick for me was as I mentioned in the article to plug my ears at various points. That greatly reduced the distortion and allowed me to hear his vocals very clearly. He definitely sounded good, but not great, during songs like Metropolis and 6:00.
How does the sound compare to that 360 6:00 thing they released?

Offline CrimsonSunrise

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2013, 12:51:22 PM »
Thanks to all the reviewers... :metal

As far as the Keyboard mix.  I have a fairly decent 5.1 system, and on Score and Budokan I've always noticed low keyboards in the mix.  If it's just me and that isn't the case...then this is REALLY gonna be a low  mix for me... :lol  I listen too both of those in stereo because of that  :|
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 01:38:08 PM by CrimsonSunrise »

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2013, 01:36:17 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.

The trick for me was as I mentioned in the article to plug my ears at various points. That greatly reduced the distortion and allowed me to hear his vocals very clearly. He definitely sounded good, but not great, during songs like Metropolis and 6:00.
How does the sound compare to that 360 6:00 thing they released?

Ah, I knew that was what I wanted to mention! Thanks for reminding me. The sound quality was better, but James definitely sounded identical to that clip. So, I don't think there was overdubbing, for what its worth, but while he does hit the notes, he definitely doesn't sound at the top of his game either.
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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2013, 02:13:16 PM »
Well, I don't know how to quantify the question.  He definitely sounded awesome, but I don't remember him having to hit any really high notes like he did with UAGM or IF on SCORE.

The trick for me was as I mentioned in the article to plug my ears at various points. That greatly reduced the distortion and allowed me to hear his vocals very clearly. He definitely sounded good, but not great, during songs like Metropolis and 6:00.
How does the sound compare to that 360 6:00 thing they released?

Ah, I knew that was what I wanted to mention! Thanks for reminding me. The sound quality was better, but James definitely sounded identical to that clip. So, I don't think there was overdubbing, for what its worth, but while he does hit the notes, he definitely doesn't sound at the top of his game either.

Well if the vocals were touched up, it would have been touched up in the 360 thing too.. But what about in regards to the keyboard? You can hear the keys perfectly in the video, were they that loud in the theater?

ps. I know James didn't sound exactly like Awake in that video, but I thought it was AWESOME in a different way. As good or better than Score- because of his distortion.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #120 on: September 25, 2013, 02:19:05 PM »
^ Well, that is funny, because in 6:00 the keyboards did sound great, but in other songs it was slightly buried. I'm starting to wish I would have plugged my ears more during the night other than to focus on James, because I'm beginning to think the distortion was causing the keyboards to sound more buried than they actually will be on the DVD.

The distortion was most definitely causing the "perfect" JLB performance, though. It is the same thing that happens at a concert. Vocalists almost always sounds rock-solid during concerts without earplugs, even if they were shaky and straining.
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Offline Jinx

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2013, 12:18:39 AM »
Question for the people that have seen this: what was the drum solo like? Was the footage caught well? Or was it hard to see what he was doing? I know a lot of what he does is so quick and sudden (not to mention just damn complicated) that if there is a ton of closeups it will be annoying...

Cheers!

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #122 on: September 26, 2013, 05:17:20 AM »
Question for the people that have seen this: what was the drum solo like? Was the footage caught well? Or was it hard to see what he was doing? I know a lot of what he does is so quick and sudden (not to mention just damn complicated) that if there is a ton of closeups it will be annoying...

Cheers!

Some close-ups, but a multitude of angles.  You will not be disappointed.  I heard they had to shoot with a special camera because the response time wasn't fast enough to keep up with MM.

Offline metrojam

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #123 on: September 26, 2013, 05:36:05 AM »
^ Well, that is funny, because in 6:00 the keyboards did sound great, but in other songs it was slightly buried. I'm starting to wish I would have plugged my ears more during the night other than to focus on James, because I'm beginning to think the distortion was causing the keyboards to sound more buried than they actually will be on the DVD.

The distortion was most definitely causing the "perfect" JLB performance, though. It is the same thing that happens at a concert. Vocalists almost always sounds rock-solid during concerts without earplugs, even if they were shaky and straining.

That's absolutely spot on buddy. The number of times you go to a concert and think that the singer was perfect all night, and then you hear a boot of the show and you realise that they weren't quite as perfect as you initially thought!. It is all down to the volume and distortion that the ears "hear" during an actual concert itself.

Offline TheAtliator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #124 on: September 26, 2013, 08:20:46 AM »
Ok that all makes sense and answers my question, thanks.

And absolutely true about live sound distorting like that.. But that's not the "distortion" I was referring to. I'm just talking about literally the way LaBrie sings nowadays is with more growl on the parts that call for it. If they would have done 6:00 at Score, he would hit all the notes, but there'd be barely any distortion/growl, and that's why I enjoy his performances on the ADTOE tour even better than the 8vm tour.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #125 on: September 26, 2013, 08:59:05 AM »
Ok that all makes sense and answers my question, thanks.

And absolutely true about live sound distorting like that.. But that's not the "distortion" I was referring to. I'm just talking about literally the way LaBrie sings nowadays is with more growl on the parts that call for it. If they would have done 6:00 at Score, he would hit all the notes, but there'd be barely any distortion/growl, and that's why I enjoy his performances on the ADTOE tour even better than the 8vm tour.

I definitely see your point, and you are right. On Score, he nails the pitches. On Live at Luna Park, he mostly nails the pitches, and absolutely nails the emotional aspect and accentuation of the notes.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #126 on: September 26, 2013, 09:33:03 AM »
Ok that all makes sense and answers my question, thanks.

And absolutely true about live sound distorting like that.. But that's not the "distortion" I was referring to. I'm just talking about literally the way LaBrie sings nowadays is with more growl on the parts that call for it. If they would have done 6:00 at Score, he would hit all the notes, but there'd be barely any distortion/growl, and that's why I enjoy his performances on the ADTOE tour even better than the 8vm tour.

I definitely see your point, and you are right. On Score, he nails the pitches. On Live at Luna Park, he mostly nails the pitches, and absolutely nails the emotional aspect and accentuation of the notes.
Exactly.
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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #127 on: September 26, 2013, 09:43:30 AM »
Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say  :tup

Now the other thing is that it kind of worries me if the keys were loud enough on 6:00, but not quite enough on the others, because that means it might be that way in the final mix, even without the theater sound. If in the theaters they were low in 6:00 too, that would more imply it was entirely just the theater's sound that made it that way since the youtube video sounds perfect.

I hope those two sentences are readable  :lol

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #128 on: September 26, 2013, 09:48:36 AM »
Yes that's exactly what I was trying to say  :tup

Now the other thing is that it kind of worries me if the keys were loud enough on 6:00, but not quite enough on the others, because that means it might be that way in the final mix, even without the theater sound. If in the theaters they were low in 6:00 too, that would more imply it was entirely just the theater's sound that made it that way since the youtube video sounds perfect.

I hope those two sentences are readable  :lol

I understood it perfectly. :tup

I really hope they release an official trailer with sound before the release so we can judge it in a better environment.
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Offline TheRich13

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #129 on: October 01, 2013, 03:05:12 PM »
Just realized !!! As awesome as the Mangini drum solo was at Luna Park, he didn't do the crazy ass ride cymbal fills section..He did it at the show I went to and alot  of others,,I know he changed the solo a bit mid tour but wish he didn't leave that out !!!
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Offline kemalure

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #130 on: October 02, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »
I watched this two weeks ago at a theater at Arlington, MA. Unfortunately the attendance was very low (about 10 people), given that it was the only theater showing the film in the Boston area.

Here is my mini review, I am following the same outline that Spacebar used

Footage: Probably the best among all DT DVDs. The video quality was crystal clear and the positioning of the cameras were good and most of the time correct members were captured at the correct times.

Sound: I have mixed feeling toward the mix, although it might be due to sound system at the theater. The JP and JLB was very loud in the mix and unfortunately JM and JR (except his solos of course) are almost missing entirely. I was especially disappointed that JM is almost entirely buried in the mix with a super muddy tone because he was perfectly audible in Score and Budokan. Apart form the mix, overall sound was stellar, especially JP's sound.

Members:

JLB - He really surprised me. I need to watch this several times to confirm but he indeed sounded even better than Score! He was also very energetic on the stage, I only wish there was more crowd interaction and talking in between the songs.

JP - Easily on top of his game, as usual. His back vocals were almost inaudible though.

JR - Perfect as usual, his solo spot was especially brilliant.

JM - Since he was mostly inaudible I can't really judge his performance, but he seemed more energetic and engaged than usual.

MM - He was definitely godlike. The drum solo is one of the highlights of the DVD and he played most of the older songs without too much embellishment (except playing some parts using only a single hand! No joking!)

Setlist:

- Bridges in the Sky : Awesome, works amazing as an opener and the chorus being sung with the crowd adds another dimension to the song.

- 6:00: This wasn't so good in my opinion. JLB is simply not able to pull of those high and aggressive vocal lines anymore and that took a lot from the song. But the band, especially MM was amazing on this one.

- The Dark Eternal Night: This was great, easily the best live recording of the song. The instrumental part was especially well executed.

- This is the Life: I think this song didn't work great in the live setting, JLB was amazing on this one though.

- The Root of all Evil: Good, but I think it was more energetic on Score.

- Lost Not Forgotten: Like Spacebar mentioned, the unison part was a disappointment, it didn't sound very tight and not being able to Hear JM's basslines behind the unison took away a lot. At least rest of the song was breathtaking.

- Drum Solo: So much fun to watch!! Usually drum solos are boring as hell but MM is making it so musical it is so entertaining. Also it seemed like an extended version of the original solo I have seen live back in 2011. Easily one of the highlights of the DVD.

- A Fortune in Lies: Personally, I really don't like WDADU at all so I would much prefer them playing some other song from their discography (why not more songs then SFAM or Six Degrees ??)

- Acoustic set: The Silent Man, Beneath the Surface: Another highlight of the DVD, especially the Silent Man sounded so beautiful with strings !! The vocals were also perfect and I think this was the only time where JP's back vocals were audible.

- Outcry: Works awesome live, epic JLB performance !

- JR Solo: The most emotional JR solo performance I have ever seen, very moving

- Surrounded: This is my least favorite track from I&W so I don't want to comment on it.

- On The Backs of Angels/War Inside My Head/The Test that Stumped Them All: I am not a big fan of OTBOA but I think those 3 songs worked really well played back to back. I still prefer the Score performance of the latter two songs though.

- JP Solo (with JR atmosphere): I am a huge fan of JP, but I think he really the shredding style on this solo spot, the slow parts were very moving though.

- The Spirit Carries On: This is the only song from SFAM.. and yes it is an amazing song and it works very well live, but do we really need this song again on DVD??? I think it is time for DT to retire this song to free up some space in the set.

- Breaking All Illusions: So awesome... To me this is the best DT song in the last decade and it is captured amazing on the DVD.

- Metropolis pt. 1 w/extended jam: The extended jam was fun but I think we have heard much better live performances of this song.

Overall, I would say that it is a good show and despite the shortcomings (the mix etc.) I didn't get bored for a single second in 2 hours 40 mins running time. I would rank it below Score, Budokan. Live Scenes and above CiM.



Offline slycordinator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #131 on: October 02, 2013, 11:54:34 AM »
Given how often people have complained about the mix and associated it with the theater in question, I have a hard time believing that literally every theater had a bad sound system.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #132 on: October 02, 2013, 12:31:13 PM »
Given how often people have complained about the mix and associated it with the theater in question, I have a hard time believing that literally every theater had a bad sound system.

It may not necessarily be every theater having a bad sound system. The sound was awesome at my theater. I believe the theater has a bad SETUP for concert films. They may have had the center and front-offset speakers turned up extremely loud (as they would be for a regular film, as most of the sound comes through there) and the back speakers generally softer (since they are mostly used for "Surround" effects and background noise in movies). This may have caused them to be drowned out.
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Offline slycordinator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2013, 04:13:34 PM »
They may have had the center and front-offset speakers turned up extremely loud (as they would be for a regular film, as most of the sound comes through there) and the back speakers generally softer (since they are mostly used for "Surround" effects and background noise in movies). This may have caused them to be drowned out.
If a cinema were set up the way you've described, then they suck and need a punch to the nuts.

Normally, a theater is set up with all the channels at the same volume as each other. In fact, they have a reference value that they use during setup (85 dB for each channel with sound processor's fader set at 7.0 on Dolby's scale).

And the reason the surrounds are often softer sounding than the center is that... most of the stuff that happens in a movie happens in front of you.

I still highly doubt that the problems with Jordan sounding much quieter than everyone else is due to using a cinema.

Offline Shadow2222

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2013, 04:42:19 PM »
They may have had the center and front-offset speakers turned up extremely loud (as they would be for a regular film, as most of the sound comes through there) and the back speakers generally softer (since they are mostly used for "Surround" effects and background noise in movies). This may have caused them to be drowned out.
If a cinema were set up the way you've described, then they suck and need a punch to the nuts.

Normally, a theater is set up with all the channels at the same volume as each other. In fact, they have a reference value that they use during setup (85 dB for each channel with sound processor's fader set at 7.0 on Dolby's scale).

And the reason the surrounds are often softer sounding than the center is that... most of the stuff that happens in a movie happens in front of you.

I still highly doubt that the problems with Jordan sounding much quieter than everyone else is due to using a cinema.

I was just talking out my ass and guessing. I'll take what you said as fact, since you seem to definitely know what you are talking about.
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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #135 on: October 03, 2013, 05:50:54 PM »
Couldn't it just be the type of speakers and the acoustics in a general cinema room? Because when I play the new DT album on the system in my living room, the vocals are really quiet, but when I play it with headphones or in my room, they're louder.

Is it possible the keyboards on LALP are mixed in such a way that certain stereo or surround sound systems might make them sound drowned out?

Offline slycordinator

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #136 on: October 03, 2013, 07:00:29 PM »
I think it's tons more likely that he's low in the mix itself. Every reference I've seen here to Jordan is him being low in the mix. Haven't seen any that indicate he sounded fine. So if it's only "certain" theaters, it would seem it's actually damn near every one of them.

And I know I saw it in a theater that's known for being quite good... and he seemed low in the mix more than he wasn't.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #137 on: October 04, 2013, 07:29:56 AM »
I think JR and JM need to be more vocal with JP about getting screwed in the mixes of studio recordings AND live albums. Enough is enough.

Offline Jinx

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #138 on: October 05, 2013, 03:22:21 AM »
If I've waited a year and a bit for a crappy mix then I will be a sad panda  :sadpanda:

Offline Sycsa

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Re: (SPOILERS) DT Live in Luna Park review
« Reply #139 on: October 05, 2013, 04:50:40 AM »
I think JR and JM need to be more vocal with JP about getting screwed in the mixes of studio recordings AND live albums. Enough is enough.
JM, fine (like 90% of bassists in metal, although he improved a lot on DT12), but I don't ever recall JR being screwed in the mix on a DT studio album. That said, I really don't think it's healthy that a member is doing the mix, biases could come up even unconsciously.


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