What are your thoughts on DT12?

[Bolsters]

The HDtracks, I converted to AAC as the ALAC won't play on ipods....it still sounds better than the actual cd mix.

Apple iPods don't support the Apple Lossless Audio Codec?

[Ben_Jamin]

The HDtracks, I converted to AAC as the ALAC won't play on ipods....it still sounds better than the actual cd mix.

Apple iPods don't support the Apple Lossless Audio Codec?

I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.

[Bolsters]

I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.

I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.

[Ben_Jamin]

I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.

I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.

It doesn't  let me change the settings. But it still sounds better than the cd Apple Lossless.

[425]

I know right, I believe because its higher quality then the usual 16 or whatever it is, don't want to look it up.

I looked it up. They do support ALAC, but only to CD quality. So if you convert the HDTracks to 16 bit and 44.1khz you can put those ALAC files on an iPod.

It doesn't  let me change the settings. But it still sounds better than the cd Apple Lossless.

You can get a lossless, CD quality file by going to Preferences, then going to Import Settings, choosing AIFF Encoder, selecting Custom for Setting and then making the Sample Rate what you need it to be there (probably 44.1khz). And then convert the original files you got from HDTracks to AIFF (by right clicking on them). The files you get from that should be CD quality and should play on your iPod/iPhone.

[nightmare_cinema]

I'm not a fan, it's probably one of my absolute least favourite DT CDs so far

None of the songs seem especially strong, The Enemy Inside and Along for the Ride are awesome, but still only at the same level of some of the more contextually average tracks on many of their previous albums. The only moment that has given me the chills so far is the end of the solo bit in Behind the Veil, I'm used to Dream Theater tracks/albums being a nonstop inducer of chills and shivers, not the odd one in a whole CD...

Even Illumination Theory, which I was so excited about, is disappointing to me. It seems really disjointed and bitty and like bits have just been pasted in that don't relate to each other at all. Tracks like Tuscany and A Change of Seasons, Octavarium etc. all sound like they could have gone on for three times their length and still been solid from start to finish but Illumination sounds bloated to me.

Really glad others are enjoying it though, it seems to have had a great reception.

[Kotowboy]

Been living with this album for a while now and i'm actually wondering whether I prefer A Dramatic Turn Of Events after all.

I need to listen to both back-to-back to decide.

[The Stray Seed]

After many many spins, I am still convinced it's their best effort since SDOIT. Amazing album.

[Mat JB]

Yes. This album has a richness, depth, and consistently high quality of songwriting that Dream Theater lacked for a long time, and only rediscovered with Dramatic Turn.

[Shine]

Still kind of let down. I think this album had the potential to be one of their best since 90's era DT, but the it falls flat. It seems like they wrote a whole bunch of different parts and then kind of strung them together without thinking about whether it actually worked as a whole. Best example of this would have to Behind the Veil. Starts out airy and light, then gets super heavy and dark, then jumps back to being light and airy. It just doesn't work.

Not to mention the awful production. Nothing has come to close to the great sounds of their earlier work since 6DOIT. ADTOE was a step in the right direction, but then DT just took it two steps back. Everything sounds muddy and compressed, not good at all.

[Viking of the Sagas]

IMO Dramatic Turn wasn't that consistent. It had clear star songs like BAI that put the others to their shadow. DT12 doesn't have that, and they're all enjoyable songs on their own. VERY consistent.

[Onno]

Still kind of let down. I think this album had the potential to be one of their best since 90's era DT, but the it falls flat. It seems like they wrote a whole bunch of different parts and then kind of strung them together without thinking about whether it actually worked as a whole. Best example of this would have to Behind the Veil. Starts out airy and light, then gets super heavy and dark, then jumps back to being light and airy. It just doesn't work.

Not to mention the awful production. Nothing has come to close to the great sounds of their earlier work since 6DOIT. ADTOE was a step in the right direction, but then DT just took it two steps back. Everything sounds muddy and compressed, not good at all.

As of now, I partly agree with you. It's still my least favourite DT album, even though I'm beginning to like it more. The transitions are indeed kinda weird sometimes.
The production is the worst since WDADU IMO. The mix, however, is pretty good.

[rumborak]

For me it's a weird thing. I can't really listen to the album because about 3 songs in I notice that I get really tired of that wall of sound. But, at the same token I know that some of the songs could actually be a lot more listenable if I got the HD tracks. Then I'm in the quagmire that I categorically refuse to pay for something extra that *really* should have been the main version to begin with. Reality is at this point that I've over the years fallen off the DT wagon so much that I'm not willing to jump through those hoops just to *potentially* like the album in the end. Especially when other albums like Steven Wilson's are begging to be listened to.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

You know...one other thing about this album is that it doesn't leave me satisfied. I feel like I didn't get enough and I want more. I know it's a good thing when you feel like you want more, but this is slightly different. ADToE left me wanting more but I didn't feel like I didn't get enough.

Maybe it has to do with a couple songs on DT12 feeling cut off early, but the album definitely feels less satisfying--not really talking about the quality of the songs, just the serving size.

[Shine]

It doesn't feel very climactic to me. Yeah yeah, Illumination Theory and all that. But they sort of ruin the ending by throwing in the "Easter Egg". Like damn, they could've just ended the album instead of waiting 35 seconds before doing some completely random piano piece. They should've of either fleshed it out into it's own song and put it somewhere else on the album, or held on to it and worked it into DT 13.

[EstyMaJ]

I still love every dam minute of this album when it is over i want more and it seems like the album is short thats when you know it's a god dam good album , that is all   

[davidolson22]

I like what they were trying to do with this album, but it wasn't quite there. Most of the ballads weren't very catchy for me, even though Petrucci was trying out new guitar sounds. I guess the lyrics just didn't click. The songs that rocked did work for me, for the most part.

I would have liked the guitar sounds lowered while having the the bass and synth enhanced. Honestly, Petrucci does realize there are other members to the band, right?

[54_diplomats]

Listened to it for the first time recently. I say it's decent, kinda disappointed with how it turned out. I love the first half of the album, FAS, TEI, The Looking Glass and Enigma Machine are all pretty solid imo.

The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride don't stand out much to me. idk how to explain it but they all seem too... simple and straightforward. Illumination Theory is the best song in the album, but it could have been much better. IT just doesn't flow very well, it's too cut up. Individually each part of the song is brilliant but it's just not cohesive. I could also do without the very end of IT (the piano part). Overall it's a good album, just not as strong as I hoped it would be. Still not sure if I prefer ADToE more.

I absolutely love Myung and Rudess on this album, I hope we can hear Myungs bass like this in future albums. JLB is great as well, especially in Illumination Theory. Mangini was solid throughout the album, but he mainly stood out to me in Illumination Theory. Petrucci was kinda disappointing on this album, the guitar solo's just weren't very notable to me though the tone is pretty good.

[The Letter M]

Listened to it for the first time recently. I say it's decent, kinda disappointed with how it turned out. I love the first half of the album, FAS, TEI, The Looking Glass and Enigma Machine are all pretty solid imo.

The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride don't stand out much to me. idk how to explain it but they all seem too... simple and straightforward. Illumination Theory is the best song in the album, but it could have been much better. IT just doesn't flow very well, it's too cut up. Individually each part of the song is brilliant but it's just not cohesive. I could also do without the very end of IT (the piano part). Overall it's a good album, just not as strong as I hoped it would be. Still not sure if I prefer ADToE more.

I absolutely love Myung and Rudess on this album, I hope we can hear Myungs bass like this in future albums. JLB is great as well, especially in Illumination Theory. Mangini was solid throughout the album, but he mainly stood out to me in Illumination Theory. Petrucci was kinda disappointing on this album, the guitar solo's just weren't very notable to me though the tone is pretty good.

It's funny but I feel the opposite about the album from you - I find the run of the first four songs to sound simple and straightforward, especially TEI and TLG. I like FAS and EM well enough, but from TBP onward, the album just gets better and better. Heck, the run of BTP/BTV/STR is just amazing, and AFTR is pretty good, too. To top it all off is IT, and the beautiful coda of the Easter Egg (which I really do NOT consider to be a part of IT at all...I guess not being labelled as a separate track on the album leads people to think it's a part of IT, but those of us who knew about the DT12 Progress Chart in the studio know it was always meant to be a separate piece apart from the album's big epic).

-Marc.

[Zook]

I haven't listened to this album much only because I've been listening to other newly discovered bands. I still think the album is great though.

[aprilethereal]

I'm still listening to DT12 at least once a week. TBP is already a top 10 DT song for me, and STR and IT being at least top 30 worthy, if not top 20. I absolutely love every member's contribution on the album, the songwriting is excellent, the mixing is great, the lyrics are some of the best DT lyrics ever IMO. AOTY for sure

[Dream Team]

Listened to it for the first time recently. I say it's decent, kinda disappointed with how it turned out. I love the first half of the album, FAS, TEI, The Looking Glass and Enigma Machine are all pretty solid imo.

The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride don't stand out much to me. idk how to explain it but they all seem too... simple and straightforward. Illumination Theory is the best song in the album, but it could have been much better. IT just doesn't flow very well, it's too cut up. Individually each part of the song is brilliant but it's just not cohesive. I could also do without the very end of IT (the piano part). Overall it's a good album, just not as strong as I hoped it would be. Still not sure if I prefer ADToE more.

I absolutely love Myung and Rudess on this album, I hope we can hear Myungs bass like this in future albums. JLB is great as well, especially in Illumination Theory. Mangini was solid throughout the album, but he mainly stood out to me in Illumination Theory. Petrucci was kinda disappointing on this album, the guitar solo's just weren't very notable to me though the tone is pretty good.

It's funny but I feel the opposite about the album from you - I find the run of the first four songs to sound simple and straightforward, especially TEI and TLG. I like FAS and EM well enough, but from TBP onward, the album just gets better and better. Heck, the run of BTP/BTV/STR is just amazing, and AFTR is pretty good, too. To top it all off is IT, and the beautiful coda of the Easter Egg (which I really do NOT consider to be a part of IT at all...I guess not being labelled as a separate track on the album leads people to think it's a part of IT, but those of us who knew about the DT12 Progress Chart in the studio know it was always meant to be a separate piece apart from the album's big epic).

-Marc.

Agreed. The album really starts with Track 5, with apologies to TLG.

[manticore999]

Now that it's been a few months I can honestly say I haven't listened to it in quite a while.  Not that I don't like it, but I just never found it compelling enough to want to go back to.

[utopiarun]

This album is a weird one for me. Let me just say I love ADTOE and was expecting that kind of album again but with a more unleashed Mangini and better production. When I first heard TEI I was so stoked that this was going to be a great album. But AFTR came out and I wasn't in love with it and now after listening to the album for a couple of months I am not really loving it at all.

I find it an effort to listen to. For many reasons. I like that the band decided to go in a more melodic direction, but after listening to the songs a few times I feel I am tired of the melodies. I think James is a great singer but his overly dramatic breathy vocals are wearing on me "looong before the calars start to bleeed", etc. Much of the album to me sounds disjointed and pasted together. Some of the endings are odd, especially The Looking Glass, obviously. IMO, Illumination Theory is a mess. How many songs are in there? The middle part, ambient sound and then the orchestra, why? It's like they were trying to make a 19 minute song and didn't know what to put in the middle. Sort of like the guitar swells in TCOT. Wrecks the song for me. And the ending is trying so hard to be an epic, majorly dramatic section and it sounds forced to me. The little piano piece after is nice, but should have been separate.

JP's guitar sound is absolutely amazing on this album. Chocolate cake is the correct description. The rest of the production is weird, it sounds so overproduced and I have the HD version. I was disappointed at Mangini's drum sound on ADTOE and had hopes that it would be better on this album and it is, but the lower tuned snare is so distracting to me. It sounds like he is pounding an ottoman. And he may be a machine but IMO for DT MP was the man, he just had those great fills and I don't hear that with MM. Another thought on the production. I was listening to Steven Wilson's "The Raven..." yesterday and it made me so mad that DT makes such a messy produced album when SW's albums just sound so clean and pristine.

Ok, enough blathering from me.

[Marion Crane]

DT12 is probably my second least favorite DT album, only ahead of WDADU

[jayvee3]

I really feel the exact opposite to most of the previous posts above me - I think the album is fantastic, even after time has allowed it to all sink in. Its a teriffic sounding album, and one that I genuinely look forward to listening to again, If I've had someting else in the cd player. Where that is good for me, is it's the same feeling I get when I pop in faves like Awake or FII. Where as albums I dont find quite as enjoyable, like 8V, Systematic or Black Clouds, have never given me that feeling of excitement, if I haven't heard them for a bit. DT is one that when I pop in, i'm like "ooh yea, I really enjoy this one".. And Illumination Theory is one of my very fave things the band has done. I have this feelig (based on absolutely nothing ) that it's an album that will get some more appreciation as the years go on..

So all good for me from this little gem of an album..

[Polarbear]

DT12 is probably my second least favorite DT album, only ahead of WDADU

I agree. Haven't listened to WDADU for many years and i have no slightest interest to listen DT12 anymore. Other bands have released so much better albums this year.

[Siddhartha]

Worst DT album ever.

[?]

At least one thing is certain by now: this album is more divisive than ADTOE was upon its release.

[wolfking]

Worst DT album ever.

Nice input to the thread.  Seriously, I appreciate people's opinions but I don't understand this.  To me, it could possibly be top 3 DT, it's still that good.

[The Stray Seed]

^yes. Really inspired and masterfully crafted, this is the best songwriting seen in ten years, IMO.

@?: actually, 88% of people voted between decent and instant Classic, so it's not that divisive by the numbers. It's just that there's a lor of posters among those who didn't appreciate.

Edit: and moreover, youtube-style comments like "worst DT album ever" really don't do anything for the thread, and lower the quality of an otherwise very interesting and open forum.

[?]

^You're right, but I can't recall ADTOE causing as many extreme reactions on this forum (positive or negative). Most people seem to love DT12 and think it's one of the best DT albums ever, but a lot of people (including myself) have also been disappointed - mildly or massively.

[nikatapi]

I think the fact that DT decided to go with a self-titled album and it was the first time with MM involved in the songwriting process created higher expectations than what the fanbase expected with ADTOE.

ADTOE was a perfect move from DT, it assured the fans that DT are not going to be a different band and are still going to do what we know and love.

DT was a wildcard at least for me, i personally expected more insane instrumental stuff with many more polyrhythmic elements on the songs. It's a good album, but nothing too exciting and although MM still plays some amazing things, there isn't such a great difference in drumming compared to ADTOE.

So i think many of us had higher expectations from DT12 which weren't met by the final result. Still, it's a fine album.

[rumborak]

I was actually hoping they would continue to move to a new direction like they started with ADTOE. My hope was that ADTOE played it a bit safe to not alienate the fan base, but that DT12 would show the "new DT" in full force. The way it is, DT12 I think spelled out the roadmap for the remaining albums of their career.

[cyberdrummer]

I'd probably change my vote from 'very strong' to 'decent' at this point. It hasn't aged that well for me over the last couple of months. It also seems like my favourites are the least favourites of the majority: The Looking Glass, Along for the Ride and Behind the Veil. I also just don't get The Bigger Picture - I don't understand why it has been rated so highly, to me it's a straightforward song that goes on too long.

I think I now prefer ADTOE, perhaps because it's more similar to earlier DT material (by this I mean I&W-SFAM period; SDOIT is just as good but very different stylistically), which in my opinion is miles better than DT12.

Hopefully the songs come across better in the live setting.