What are your thoughts on DT12?

[Dublagent66]

I don't understand why Rudess insists on making his keyboard playing sound like a guitar!

Sherinian's playing was much more like guitar than Rudess and really liked that about DS's playing.

[rumborak]

My criticism with JR's lead sounds would be that they are too rich for what he's playing. He likes running up and down the keyboard in his solos, but when the sound is so rich in reverb and other effects, it all just runs together. Hate on KM's simplistic sound all you want, but I know his solos inside out and could probably whistle them. JR's solos, I would probably have to go "whirrwhiirrrbrrrrrrblupblupblup...."

[The Letter M]

Not sure if it was brought up or not, but if JR's lead sounds were beginning to sound like guitars during the TOT-era, then it's likely because the band were looking for that sound. They covered albums by Metallica and Iron Maiden, which both have double guitars, so it's no wonder why they were looking for that sound.

-Marc.

[Kotowboy]

So - how does Illumination Theory work live ?

I always thought that it'd be cool if I.T. ended the first half - the ambient / orchestra section played on the PA then the band came back in at the right moment live for

the second half.

[Zook]

So - how does Illumination Theory work live ?

I always thought that it'd be cool if I.T. ended the first half - the ambient / orchestra section played on the PA then the band came back in at the right moment live for

the second half.

That's exactly what happens. With a nifty video of course.

[Kotowboy]

They obviously read my post back in September suggesting it

[Zook]

Yep, when I met them at the meet and greet, I asked where they got the idea from, and they said "some angry European".

[King Postwhore]

 

[MarkFitDT]

My criticism with JR's lead sounds would be that they are too rich for what he's playing. He likes running up and down the keyboard in his solos, but when the sound is so rich in reverb and other effects, it all just runs together. Hate on KM's simplistic sound all you want, but I know his solos inside out and could probably whistle them. JR's solos, I would probably have to go "whirrwhiirrrbrrrrrrblupblupblup...."

I would have agreed with that assessment up until the last 2 albums when there have been a few solos that you could whistle along to - AFTR, BTS and the "solo" before JPs solo in BTV spring to mind. Not sure if that last one is classed as a solo tbh though!
I love KM's solos but I have to admit my fav DT key solo is Trial of Tears - amazing.

[emtee]

I've been consumed by IQ's latest The Road Of Bones and wishing/hoping/begging...that the next DT album will have a similar
sonic quality. It's so clear and concise and powerful. Every instrument including the drums sound amazing. I would be so damn
happy if I could heard DT sound like this.

[Xenon]

I really like this album (with the exception of a few songs), but never listen to it. I guess it's not an album to have on repeat.

[?]

Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest

I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences, but it made me grin nevertheless

[The Letter M]

Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest

I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences, but it made me grin nevertheless

Hahahaha wow. That's impressive.

-Marc.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest

"The Black Album"



And though the DT12 one isn't the most accurate, I got a good laugh out of it too.

[rumborak]

Given how it was distinctly the first thing that stood out to me when I heard DT12, I think it's actually pretty accurate

[Sycsa]

I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences

Indeed, but those are as blatant as you can get and probably make DT12 the most Rush influenced of all their albums (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk). The Looking Glass is like a DT version of Limelight, the beginning of Surrender to Reason has the Tom Sawyer synth and The Pursuit of Truth immediately brings Cygnus X-1 to mind.

[?]

I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences

Indeed, but those are as blatant as you can get and probably make DT12 the most Rush influenced of all their albums (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3VphK9AMk). The Looking Glass is like a DT version of Limelight, the beginning of Surrender to Reason has the Tom Sawyer synth and The Pursuit of Truth immediately brings Cygnus X-1 to mind.

Yeah, those are the similarities I've noticed as well, and I agree that DT12 has a stronger Rush influence than any other DT album.

[kirksnosehair]

I don't really have a big problem with the Rush influence.  At least it sounds like the era of Rush where they were actually making music I like.


The thing about DT12 that I noticed after about two weeks is it doesn't seem to have a lot of replay value after about 10 or 12 spins.    I thought ADTOE was quite a bit stronger in this regard.  I really wish ADTOE had the same sonic qualities that DT12 has.  Not that DT12's mix is all that great (I's decent, I guess), but ADTOE is probably the worst-produced album since the debut, which is a damned shame because musically it's the strongest thing they've released since the late 90's

[KevShmev]

Check out the HD tracks for the last two albums, Barry.  Both are definite upgrades (especially since I agree, regarding ADTOE).

[Xenon]

I have no problem with a little influence in a band, but one thing is a rush influenced song, and other is a similar riff, with a similar structure and, on top of that, lyrics with a similar theme to the original rush song.

[George Eliot]

When I first heard TEI, I admit, I was a little disapointed.  Not that is was a bad song, it just didn't excite me as much as OTBOA did.  However, when I listened DT12 as a whole, I was blown away.  It remained that way for a few weeks and then started to wane a little, so I gave it a few weeks break and listened to other stuff.  Then I came back to it again and enjoyed it again, but in a different way.  By this time TEI started to really grow on me and now it is among my favorite on the album.  I have found though that a similar process has happened to every DT album I bought.  Honestly, I love all of them but for different reasons.

[TAC]

I love The Enemy Inside. It's one of my favorites on the album.

I think it's one of my favorite DT "heavy" songs too.

[bl5150]

I love The Enemy Inside. It's one of my favorites on the album.

I think it's one of my favorite DT "heavy" songs too.

This.............and I love DT12 and am no huge fan of Rush. 

[Rodni Demental]

Obviously JR has had a lot of guitar-y leads over the years, but I feel like it's more of a fallback for him on heavier music that isn't his natural state, rather than the default as it is for DS. When JR has a chance, he just as often does the moog solo, or the piano break, or any other random instrument you can think of, or whatever new tech he's exploring. When it sounds "guitary", I think it comes more from his pursuit of expressiveness as a musician than the pursuit of guitaryness, which is the case with DS.

Pretty much this. You see it in in the new seaboard stuff. That thing can sound like a guitar, but I'm fairly sure that was never the intention. It was about finding new ways to express sound as a player. Especially because keyboards generally lack certain expressive qualities found in other instruments (vibrato, bends. In some cases, dynamic control etc.)

Not sure if it was brought up or not, but if JR's lead sounds were beginning to sound like guitars during the TOT-era, then it's likely because the band were looking for that sound. They covered albums by Metallica and Iron Maiden, which both have double guitars, so it's no wonder why they were looking for that sound.

Exactly. ToT was the same era as when they were doing all those covers. JR was deliberately trying to replicate guitars in some cases but I'm not sure if he ever deliberately tried to do that in a Dream Theater song.

I don't understand why Rudess insists on making his keyboard playing sound like a guitar!

Two words: Matt Guillory. Have you heard absolutely any one of his keyboard solos on any one of the Mullmuzzler/JLB albums? There are some songs (Over the edge from Static Impulse is a good example?) where there are even trade offs between the keyboard and guitar during the solo. You can hear the differences by direct comparison but seriously if you didn't already know it was a keyboard player, you'd just think a second guitarist is trading off.

[Skeever]

Look at the last album cover here: https://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/what-if-metal-album-art-was-more-honest

I know just a few songs have blatant Rush influences, but it made me grin nevertheless

[BlobVanDam]

This.............and I love DT12 and am no huge fan of Rush. 

I'm no fan of Rush at all, and not really of DT12 either. So..... there?

[Grizz]

I like Rush but am not particularly fond off DTXII.

[?]

I like Rush but am not particularly fond off DTXII.

[lithium112]

I like MM's drum parts, but I wish MP would come back and oversee the sound engineering aspects of the recording process. Not that I think this would practically ever happen but since his departure, the drum tone went from being one of the best things about DT studio tracks to the worst (sound-wise).

[George Eliot]

I love The Enemy Inside. It's one of my favorites on the album.

I think it's one of my favorite DT "heavy" songs too.

I agree.  I love it when MM breaks out at the beginning and becomes an animal.  I imagine MM turning into a mad chimp in the recording studio, then going crazy, making chimp screams and yells while jumping up and down, all the while beating the drums to death  .  Then he turns back to normal and just sits down like nothing every happened, while the rest of the guys are hiding behind stacks of gear wondering if it's safe to come out.  Then, after a few moments of silence, Rich speaks into the mic from the engineering box and says "right. Yeah. That was good, we'll take that one."

I also love JR's keyboard entrance.  Those two things just set up the song so well for me.

[Sycsa]

I agree.  I love it when MM breaks out at the beginning and becomes an animal.  I imagine MM turning into a mad chimp in the recording studio, then going crazy, making chimp screams and yells while jumping up and down, all the while beating the drums to death  . 

I'm not sure that's the case. After the auditions I also expected that he would act like that, but he's always calm and somewhat restrained live, apart from making a few funny faces here and there. Admittedly, playing to a click takes its toll on him and he can't completely let himself loose.

I also love JR's keyboard entrance.

Me too, although it's much better and way more prominent live compared to the studio version.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I  haven't played the album as a whole for some time, but I still come back to Illumination Theory, Surrender to Reason, The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil.

[Kotowboy]

Not listened to DT12 in ages. . . 

[PetFish]

The Bigger Picture is still my favourite.

One of the cool things about it is that it's played on a 7-string but it's not a traditional "metal" song.  Petrucci uses the lower chords to give it a nice deep feel but it's definitely not a song you'd even think to use a 7-string on right from the get-go.

*I also love this song cuz it's one of the few Dream Theater songs I can play in its entirety.  Petrucci always ends up putting in something really complex, even for 10s, that I can't do cleanly and therefore "don't count".  But this one I can handle. 

[Kotowboy]

Yep, when I met them at the meet and greet, I asked where they got the idea from, and they said "some angry European".

Lars Ulrich ?