Author Topic: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]  (Read 224635 times)

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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #1995 on: September 27, 2013, 03:51:47 PM »
ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.


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Offline Lucien

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #1996 on: September 27, 2013, 04:05:54 PM »
And the transition from the continuum solo and the acoustics in the beginning of Someone Like Him aren't even mentioned. Hmm..

IT has a few ideas that are fleshed out, with perhaps not-so-nice transitions. Octavarium's transitions are slightly better.

ACOS has about ten thousand ideas that don't really go anywhere, with better transitions.

When it comes to the epic songs, there really aren't that many that have "great" transitions.
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Offline dongringo

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #1997 on: September 27, 2013, 04:07:36 PM »
I've never even liked ACoS, but love every second of IT. Its not a structural issue rather an emotional connection issue...it seems to me.
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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #1998 on: September 27, 2013, 04:50:46 PM »
ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.

Go listen to ACOS again.  There are some themes reprised here and there (just like IT) but on the whole, ACOS's hundreds of musical ideas are more-or-less unrelated.  If you think it has an "overall cohesion", that's just because you've heard the song a hundred times.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #1999 on: September 27, 2013, 04:52:17 PM »

ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.

I think that's one of the most dramatic parts of the song.
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Offline IronEarthTheater

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2000 on: September 27, 2013, 08:45:14 PM »
Had a few days to digest - I really like the album.  DT albums always grow on me, so it will only get better.   It's near the top for me, probably right in the second tier range along with ADTOE (behind Images and SFAM).  As far as the songs go:

1) Behind the Veil
2) The Enemy Inside
3) Along for the Ride (maybe my favorite DT ballad ever)
4) The Looking Glass

5) Illumination Theory (I don't totally <get> this one yet, but it is growing on me, and it often takes a while to fully appreciate the epics.  By the time I do, they usually jump to the top.
6) The Bigger Picture

7) False Awakening Suite
8) Enigma Machine

9) Surrender to Reason

It's definitely got fewer lows than most albums, although probably fewer highs as well.  Very strong album.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2001 on: September 28, 2013, 02:00:20 AM »
And the transition from the continuum solo and the acoustics in the beginning of Someone Like Him aren't even mentioned. Hmm..

IT has a few ideas that are fleshed out, with perhaps not-so-nice transitions. Octavarium's transitions are slightly better.

ACOS has about ten thousand ideas that don't really go anywhere, with better transitions.

When it comes to the epic songs, there really aren't that many that have "great" transitions.

I agree with this. Especially that 8VM's parts are so amazing that I don't really have a problem with the weird transitions in some parts. ACOS on the other hand goes nowhere, but has some neat transitions, but that can't save the song. I'm not saying that I don't like ACOS, in fact I really enjoy it, but transitions aren't everything.

And IT is finally starting to really grow on me :tup

Offline Tick

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2002 on: September 28, 2013, 06:42:55 AM »
Tick...don't let it get to you. I read the forums, but I can still form my own reaction to the albums.

And this album kicks ass
I hear you. It seems that some people are enamored with being controversial or trying to heat people up for the sake of doing so.
I understand that some folks really don't like the record, but others like to beat the dead horse by saying it in as many places as possible to make sure we are all aware of there displeasure.

I would say the same about people responding to it. When someone says they just don't enjoy it, people have to come in and make excuses for them: "You just don't like DT anymore." "How can anyone say that?" "Some people just can't be positive about anything." Instead of accepting that people can have different thoughts about things.
That's fine if someone doesn't like the album. Certainly their prerogative not to. Its also their right to comment that they don't. What I have a problem with is the person who doesn't like the album who feels the need to go in to each individual thread for each song on the record and proceed to rip each song apart. Is their a need for that? You may think so, but I do not.
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Offline tofee35

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2003 on: September 28, 2013, 07:20:01 AM »
I bought the album as aiff HD Tracks and wow! The album sounds phenomenal. In comparison to the single download off of itunes for TEI, the quality difference is substantial. I'm a happy customer  :tup

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2004 on: September 28, 2013, 07:25:40 AM »
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2005 on: September 28, 2013, 07:47:05 AM »

ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.

I think that's one of the most dramatic parts of the song.

That transition works so well because of what came before it. I have never had a problem with how DT transition between sections, even going back to WDADU where they could be pretty jarring. It's just the next part of the song, it doesn't have to flow smoothly all the time.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2006 on: September 28, 2013, 08:15:47 AM »
Music, like art, like movies like any media has multiple possibilities.  Why does a song need to flow perfect all the time, Why does a song, need to be 20 minutes or 4 minutes?  Why drop the guitar out of a section for a song?  No answer is correct, it's art! 

People have these preconceptions on how 'They" want the song and then push their agenda.  DT made the song the way they wanted and when I'm not in the mood for that style, I'll put something else on.  That's the beauty of diversity in music.
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Online ariich

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2007 on: September 28, 2013, 08:16:47 AM »
Music, like art, like movies like any media has multiple possibilities.  Why does a song need to flow perfect all the time, Why does a song, need to be 20 minutes or 4 minutes?  Why drop the guitar out of a section for a song?  No answer is correct, it's art! 

People have these preconceptions on how 'They" want the song and then push their agenda.  DT made the song the way they wanted and when I'm not in the mood for that style, I'll put something else on.  That's the beauty of diversity in music.
Well said! :tup

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Offline commanderbob

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2008 on: September 28, 2013, 09:19:15 AM »
I'm gonna say it again: DT12 is not only my fav DT album, but one of the best rock albums I have ever heard.  I haven't been this blown over by an entire album since the first Mutemath album, or when I discovered Muse thru Black Holes and Revelations.  I haven't had this "instant classic" glow come over me with DT since SFAM, and I love it.  This is the DT album I have been waiting for: all aspects I love and very very very few of the aspects I dislike.

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2009 on: September 28, 2013, 09:24:41 AM »
I've had some changes over the past week on what I think of the album. Really loving Myung's increased presence. The rhythm section between him and Mangini is fantastic. And the HD tracks version allows people to hear Mangini unleashed. So much shit is buried on the CD.

Surrender To Reason
Behind The Veil
Illumination Theory
The Bigger Picture
The Looking Glass
Along For The Ride
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine

And obligatory album rank:

SDOIT
SFAM
DT12
I&W
Awake
8VM
ADTOE
FII
TOT
SC
BC&SL
WDADU
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2010 on: September 28, 2013, 10:10:22 AM »
I've been trying not to discuss the new album for at least a week now, for two reasons. The first one is that I wasn't really impressed with it initially. The second one goes along with the first one, and that is that it usually takes me some time to digest music, especially when it comes to progressive rock. So I knew there was a chance that the album will grow on me, or at least some of it, so I decided to take some time and try to give it a few more fair listens.

The biggest issue I had with the album was that it wasn't A Dramatic turn of events. That album, in my opinion, was absolutely brilliant and I already think of it as a classic. So, of course, it would be extremely hard for a band to impress me like that once again in their 28th year. Truth be told, this album is very different. It's heavier, darker and much more modern sounding. Also, its strong focus seem to be the choruses and melodies, which is logical when you consider the length of most of the songs. For me, they absolutely nailed it in some of the songs, but some other ones didn't work for me as much.

False awakening suite – Not a great song on its own, but it really sets the mood for the rest of the album nicely. There are some really cool ideas all around, and it does sound to me like Rudess and Petrucci had a great time putting this intro together. I think it will work amazing as a concert intro as well.

The Enemy inside – At first I thought the chord progressions and vocal melodies on here were predictable and a bit too simple. I expected I would get tired of the song quickly, but that didn’t happen. I still find this song insanely catchy, with the chorus sticking with me in particular. One of my favorites on the album.

The Looking glass – Within the first five seconds, it becomes obvious that the band was heavily inspired by Rush while writing this one. I think it’s amazing to hear such a Rush influenced song on a Dream Theater album for the first time in maybe 20 years. It’s a really solid song all around that might grow one me even more with time.

Enigma Machine – Now this just does it for me. It’s another one of their over the top instrumentals. The riffs and solos are killer throughout, but the melodic moments give it a nice balance. I can totally hear the spy movie vibe that they were going for and it certainly is one of the more cinematic souding songs on the album. It’s a lot of fun.

The Bigger picture – This one seems to already be a fan favorite and the band expressed their satisfaction with it, but I’m still not sure about it. The chorus doesn’t really move me, and the expansive verses in the second half don’t strike me with any particular melody. I do like LaBrie’s performance as well as some simple piano chords Jordan plays in the middle. 

Behind the veil – The intro for this song is beautiful, followed by some murderously awesome riffs. The rest of the song kinda follows an ordinary pattern, which probably wouldn’t be an issue if I weren’t so underwhelmed by the chorus. I didn’t really dig the Megadeth verse neither. It’s probably my least favorite song on the album.

Surrender to reason – More Rush influences can be heard here, but the song goes its own places as a whole. The guitar solo is insane, even more so because of what Myung and Mangini play in the background. The ‘’Restless angels’’ section is truly gorgeous. It’s one of the more fascinating songs on the album and another possible grower. It also has my favorite lyrics on the album.

Along for the ride – This is another song where I’m still on the fence with the chorus, because it might be a bit too happy sounding for my taste. What saves it is the verse that preceedes the keyboard solo, as well as some neat background vocals by James in the last chorus that give it a nice touch.

Illumination theory – As expected, Dream Theater strikes a chord with me pretty much whenever they tackle the task of creating an epic. This song is filled with the goods in every way. The flow is incredible, the orchestral bits quite moving, and James impresses me here the most, utilising so many aspects of his voice throughout. Also worth mentioning is the easter egg that comes at the end – a wonderful piece that contains only piano and guitar.

Overall, I’m glad I didn’t give up on the album too early, because I would miss out on some good music. The self titled record certainly wouldn’t be one of my favorite Dream Theater albums, but I am still satisfied with it and will definitely be returning to it. It will also be great to hear the stuff live next year, and I’m pretty sure the band will use the ‘’an evening with’’ show format to play all of it, being that they really seem to be proud of it and the fan response in general has been amazing so far.

Grade: 8/10

Offline Lucidity

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2011 on: September 28, 2013, 10:21:51 AM »
ACoS has an overall cohesion. IT sounds like 8 different song ideas spliced together. I mean the transition from the orchestral section into that bass section is actually embarrassing imo.



I agree so hard with this.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2012 on: September 28, 2013, 12:32:48 PM »
Now that I know the album a little better, here's a track-by-track.

False Awakening Suite - Serves quite well as an intro, I suppose, but nothing remarkable on its own. It does set the mood nicely, but not really a lot more.

The Enemy Inside - Now this is more like it! I wasn't expecting to like it this much, but this song is just so insanely catchy and powerful that I can't help but enjoy it. The instrumental section is amazing and I don't think that I've played this song once without singing along to the chorus at the top of my voice.

The Looking Glass - It's okay, but it's no secret that I'm no fan of Rush and that's my I'd consider this to be one of the weaker songs here. Still a good listen, though, love the guitar solo.

Enigma Machine - Interesting beginning and I like that callback to The Count of Tuscany, but overall this isn't really anything great. Might need more listens, but right now, nothing has really stuck.

The Bigger Picture - AMAZING. Took a few listens, but I love love love it now. The chorus is great, the guitar solo is a thing of beauty and the outro is amazing. Love the unconventional structure of this one as well.

Behind the Veil - Great intro and powerful riffing. Not quite sold on the chorus, especially that last chorus sounds really weird, but the rest is amazing. The guitar solo might be one of JP's best ever, great melodies and some amazing shredding that fits perfectly as well.

Surrender to Reason - Now this is a great track as well. Some amazing melodies, the guitar solos are very different but both amazing, and I love the "Restless angels..." section, so powerful! Definitely one of my favourites here as well.

Along for the Ride - Digging this one as well, but still one of the weaker tracks on the album. Not quite sure what it is, maybe the chorus? Still, Petrucci's little solo is great and Rudess' one is probably one of my favourite key solos on the album.

Illumination Theory - Yes, this is disjointed, but I don't care, I love it anyway. The final section is especially great, a far better climax than Octavarium. Love the Easter Egg as well, though I'd love to have it as a seperate track.

Overall, a very solid album, just beneath my holy trinity of SDOIT/Awake/FII for me, about on par with I&W. 9/10.

Ranking:

The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Illumination Theory
The Enemy Inside
Behind the Veil
The Looking Glass
Along for the Ride
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite

Albums:

1. Six Degrees
2. Awake
3. Falling into Infinity

4. Images and Words
5. Dream Theater
6. A Dramatic Turn of Events

7. Scenes from a Memory
8. Train of Thought
9. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
10. When Dream and Day Unite
11. Systematic Chaos













12. Octavarium
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2013 on: September 28, 2013, 12:42:10 PM »
my biggest criticism of the album is that they don't repeat 1:02- 1:08 in False Awakening Suite just one more time


obligatory song ranking (the top 4 move around):

TLG
TBP
IT
BTV
STR
FAS
EM
TEI
AFTR

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2014 on: September 28, 2013, 12:46:13 PM »
Behind The Veil
The Bigger Picture
Enigma Machine
Illumination Theory
Along For The Ride
Surrendee to Reason
The Looking Glass
False Awakening Suite
The Enemy Inside
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Offline j

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2015 on: September 28, 2013, 11:39:47 PM »
Surrender to Reason
Behind the Veil
The Bigger Picture
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
Along for the Ride
The Enemy Inside
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite

-J

Offline Outcrier

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2016 on: September 29, 2013, 04:29:08 AM »
Based on enjoyment:

1 - The Looking Glass
2 - Surrender To Reason
3 - Illumination Theory
4 - The Bigger Picture
5 - The Enemy Inside
6 - Along For The Ride
7 - Enigma Machine
8 - Behind The Veil
9 - False Awakening Suite
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Online wolfking

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2017 on: September 29, 2013, 04:31:29 AM »
Behind the Veil
Illumination Theory
The Looking Glass
The Enemy Inside
The Bigger Picture
Surrender to Reason
Enigma Machine
False Awakening Suite
Along for the Ride
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2018 on: September 29, 2013, 04:44:19 AM »
Illumination theory
The Enemy inside
Enigma machine

Surrender to reason
The Looking glass
False awakening suite
Along for the ride

The Bigger picture
Behind the veil

Offline Lucien

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2019 on: September 29, 2013, 07:24:13 AM »
THE BEAUTY WE WISH TO BEHOLD IS NEVER TOO FAAAAAAAAAARR AWWAAAAAYYYYY
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2020 on: September 29, 2013, 08:03:13 AM »
Top 8 - too close to rank.

9 : Surrender To Reason.

Offline Trial of Thought

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2021 on: September 29, 2013, 08:27:10 AM »
Illumination Theory
Surrender to Reason

Enigma Machine
The Enemy Inside
Along for the Ride
The Bigger Picture

False Awakening Suite
Behind the Veil
The Looking Glass
Swords are made of Steel  :metal
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Offline Wardy

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2022 on: September 29, 2013, 11:08:57 PM »
This is the Dream Theater I fell in love with back with Images And Words, Awake etc, this record has far exceeded expectation!  Nothing here sounds forced nor out of place, this album flows beautifully and is easily up to par with their best work, near perfect Dream Theater fer these ears, super impressed! :metal


The Bigger Picture
Behind The Veil
The Looking Glass
Along For The Ride
The Enemy Inside
Surrender To Reason


Can't compare an epic like Illumination Theory to the rest, it just stands alone, as do the instrumentals False Awakening Suite and Enigma Machine!

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #2023 on: October 01, 2013, 11:10:12 AM »
I can't believe the "DT12" stuck, the dumbest fuckin option we could have went with.


It's the most logical. DTDT was the stupidest option.

Offline Tick

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2024 on: October 01, 2013, 12:46:42 PM »
Here is the correct order you should like the songs…

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2025 on: October 01, 2013, 12:47:33 PM »
Nice. Liking it a lot at the mo. As good as if not slightly better than ADTOE, imo.

Since MP's departure,  they've fixed a couple of things that were really bothering me since 6DOIT (crass attempts at angsty metalness, awful lyrics, too frequent lack of taste) and created one (dull-sounding drums).

I'm pleasantly pleased!  :)
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Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2026 on: October 01, 2013, 01:10:02 PM »
Here is the correct order you should like the songs…

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.

Offline Tick

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2027 on: October 01, 2013, 01:19:27 PM »
Here is the correct order you should like the songs…

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.
Yup. Tick is dead on.  She's not your type.  Move on.   Tick is Obi Wan Kenobi


Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2028 on: October 01, 2013, 01:20:34 PM »
Here is the correct order you should like the songs…

1.   Illumination Theory
2.   Surrender To Reason
3.   The Bigger Picture
4.   The Enemy Inside
5.   The Looking Glass
6.   Behind The Veil
7.   Enigma Machine
8.   False Awakening Suite
9.   Along For The Ride
Behind The Veil is way to good for 6th.
Its hard when you like the songs pretty much equally. but if you have to put them in order something must be 6th.
Just not Behind The Veil :P

I don't even know if I could rank the songs, aside from IT being an obvious no.1, everything is just so damned good on this album.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]
« Reply #2029 on: October 01, 2013, 01:49:52 PM »
It was REALLY hard to rank the songs. I haven't really listened to it as much as some here, but when I do I enjoy it all. Its a consistent album and I find it hard not to listen to it in its entirety. 

I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD