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Author Topic: Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]  (Read 224252 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1225 on: September 17, 2013, 11:37:38 AM »
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Offline jyoung320

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1226 on: September 17, 2013, 11:38:05 AM »
Quote from: Zydar on September 17, 2013, 11:34:26 AM
Intergalactic tour dates then.

Tour dates on Xanadu?
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1227 on: September 17, 2013, 11:39:24 AM »
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
Hey, DTF.  I know the album stream is beyond awesome.  But there is even more cool news coming very soon.  SOON...  :soon:
Are you in on pretty much everything?
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1228 on: September 17, 2013, 11:44:39 AM »
Every box set edition gets a DT ticket for life!





just kidding. haha.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1229 on: September 17, 2013, 11:45:12 AM »
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: lonestar on September 17, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
Hey, DTF.  I know the album stream is beyond awesome.  But there is even more cool news coming very soon.  SOON...  :soon:

North American tour dates hopefully...

Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.

Based on that post my money is on the surprise being a tour with no opening acts for Dream Theater a.k.a An Evening With :D
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Offline dedSurroun

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1230 on: September 17, 2013, 11:47:16 AM »
I hope you guys hear that the seemingly out-of-place strings an orchestra section in Illumination Theory is first introduced in the very beginning of the song (and small hints, here and there, lasting seconds).

It's done much better than in, say, Ministry Of Lost Souls.

I'll also say that an "epic" like this doesn't have to conform to what A Change Of Seasons is like. I get the desire to have it "flow" and work together, and I agree with that, but I for one find that IT flows together fairly well, when taken for what it is in the context of today and the album.

What a great album. I predict that it will move ahead of 6DOIT in terms of long-term repeat listens. This album so far offers more possibility for growing on me than 6DOIT has ever done. Naturally, only time will tell but only 3 other albums had me instantly hooked and gushing (the "Holy Trinity" of I&W, Awake, SFAM). That says a lot.

Not "better than" the Holy Trinity but certainly top 5.
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Offline Cygnus17

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1231 on: September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM »
New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have: 

Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

Thanks!
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Offline ronrule

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1232 on: September 17, 2013, 11:57:05 AM »
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

While I think BAI is a better chorus than most, I would say the choruses definitely follow in the footsteps of Bridges and Outcry -- very "soaring", very simple. I'm actually NOT fan of these, but I hope you enjoy them.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1233 on: September 17, 2013, 11:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have: 

Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

Thanks!

I would say no. I would say it's better, and more concise.
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Offline metrojam

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1234 on: September 17, 2013, 11:59:09 AM »
Well, having digested all the songs now 6 times, I have to say that I am disappointed. Having been a fan since WDADU (thanks to the legendary Tommy Vance's Friday Rock Show which championed DT right from the start) it hurts me to have to say that :(

I rate each song as follows (together with any comments I feel appropriate):-
1) False Awakening Suite 8/10 - like this a lot, but should it really be called a suite at just 2 mins 42 secs long?
2) The Enemy Inside 7.5/10 - this is the song that has improved the most to my ears, upon repeated listen
3) The Looking Glass 3/10 - dire, boring and basically a Rush copy (but then again I really don't like Rush!)
4) Enigma Machine 5.5/10 - disappointing and unmemorable instrumental, arguably their worst ever I.M.O.
5) The Bigger Picture 6.5/10 - again another one that has grown on me, but nothing special
6) Behind The Veil 8.5/10 - the only song that REALLY hit me upon first listen
7) Surrender To Reason - 7/10 - Nice song.
8) Along For The Ride - 7/10 - another grower although still don't like JR's key solo at all
9) Illumination Theory - 7.5/10 - weirdly I liked this more upon first listen to now, although it does have a very 8v type ending, which I enjoyed.

Overall mark would probably be a 7/10
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1235 on: September 17, 2013, 11:59:36 AM »
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: lonestar on September 17, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
Hey, DTF.  I know the album stream is beyond awesome.  But there is even more cool news coming very soon.  SOON...  :soon:

North American tour dates hopefully...

Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.

They're gonna name me their tour chef!!!  :omg: :omg: :omg:
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Offline evz

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1236 on: September 17, 2013, 11:59:44 AM »
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have: 

Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

Thanks!

Just my opinion, I think the great melodies and choruses are here on DT12, but maybe not as immediately apparent - on my first listen thru I got kind of lost thru the middle batch of songs (not that they weren't great, just that there is a lot to absorb) - but on subsequent listens, WOW did they grab me.   So much emotion.   

I think something different here is that rather than repeating the same individual parts over and over for the verses and choruses, the songs truly "progress" and maybe that is why it takes a while for some people to catch on.
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Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1237 on: September 17, 2013, 12:02:26 PM »
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have: 

Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.
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Offline Cygnus17

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1238 on: September 17, 2013, 12:03:50 PM »
Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album.   And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board!  - Greg
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Online MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1239 on: September 17, 2013, 12:04:25 PM »
I think JP really shines with his guitar work on this album. Lots of cool riffs, background stuff, lead melodies, solos and more. Lots of cool nuggetz to find. BtV solo is awesome.
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Offline evz

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1240 on: September 17, 2013, 12:04:48 PM »
Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 17, 2013, 12:02:26 PM

Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.

That's exactly the section i was talking about, and yes they are awesome  :)
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1241 on: September 17, 2013, 12:06:16 PM »
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 12:03:50 PM
Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album.   And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board!  - Greg

It is, welcome to DTF bud!!!
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Offline Cygnus17

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1242 on: September 17, 2013, 12:06:52 PM »
Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 17, 2013, 12:02:26 PM
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 11:50:05 AM
New member here.... Haven't had a chance to listen to the stream yet (may wait for the official release), but got one question for those who have: 

Alot of posts reference the great melodies and choruses:  would folks say the songs are similar to ADOTE in that regard?
Bridges in the Sky and Breaking all Illusions are great examples of this, IMO.  Hoping to hear more of the same on this album. 

Thanks!
Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, the melodies are mostly on par or better than BITS or BAI from ADTOE. They really took their "awesome chorus" pills for this album. The Looking Glass, The Bigger Picture, Behind The Veil, and Surrender To Reason have great choruses and the others are fairly good as well.

Thanks!  All about those "awesome choruses"
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Offline Whatsername

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1243 on: September 17, 2013, 12:12:52 PM »
That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.


Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 12:19:45 PM by Whatsername »
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Offline Cygnus17

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1244 on: September 17, 2013, 12:28:43 PM »
Quote from: lonestar on September 17, 2013, 12:06:16 PM
Quote from: Cygnus17 on September 17, 2013, 12:03:50 PM
Thanks for the insight, appreciate it...cant wait to delve into this album.   And look forward to discussion and debate... seems like a great board!  - Greg

It is, welcome to DTF bud!!!

Thanks man!
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Offline metropofreak

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1245 on: September 17, 2013, 12:31:41 PM »
Quote from: Dream Team on September 17, 2013, 11:28:43 AM
Quote from: metropofreak on September 17, 2013, 11:16:20 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on September 17, 2013, 08:15:33 AM
Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

The thing with Mangini's playing is that it is much more precise than MP's (IMO). There really isn't a single note he plays that doesn't reflect what one of the band members is playing. My problem with this is that it doesn't always leave room for MM to come up with his own unique parts. The counter to this is MM's drum parts in TLG or the beginning to IT, which are just plain awesome on every level. I'm sure there are more moments - problem is it'll take some time to reveal because the man can be so damn subtle!

Of course, I don't think its possible to come up with a drum part that is a good as the intro in The Great Debate  ;D

Agreed, and it's one of the main things I'm looking for from MM. I think he's trying to be TOO technical. MP's best rhythms had this insane mix of progginess, heaviness, and air-drummingness that is pretty hard to match.

Don't get me wrong though, I am really pleased with MM on this album. I think he's done an awesome job, and I'm already air drumming like a madman.

Also, that huge fill in IT before the vocals come in is SO GOOD. Does anyone else get reminded of Satellite 15... The Final Frontier at that point?
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Offline Zydar

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1246 on: September 17, 2013, 12:32:05 PM »
Quote from: Whatsername on September 17, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.


Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?

"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1247 on: September 17, 2013, 12:41:42 PM »
Quote from: lonestar on September 17, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: lonestar on September 17, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: bosk1 on September 17, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
Hey, DTF.  I know the album stream is beyond awesome.  But there is even more cool news coming very soon.  SOON...  :soon:

North American tour dates hopefully...

Your mileage may vary, but in my personal opinion, even better than that.

They're gonna name me their tour chef!!!  :omg: :omg: :omg:

I hope it's a pre-order of the Making of DT12 DVD. Would love to see that.
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Offline Whatsername

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1248 on: September 17, 2013, 12:44:30 PM »
Quote from: Zydar on September 17, 2013, 12:32:05 PM
"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"

Thanks Zydar! Such pretty lyrics.
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Offline metropofreak

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1249 on: September 17, 2013, 12:45:51 PM »
Quote from: goo-goo on September 17, 2013, 12:41:42 PM
I hope it's a pre-order of the Making of DT12 DVD. Would love to see that.

Now THAT would be incredible!
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Offline lyfeternl

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1250 on: September 17, 2013, 12:46:32 PM »
Quote from: Zydar on September 17, 2013, 12:32:05 PM
Quote from: Whatsername on September 17, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
That orchestra section in IT... I'm pretty sure that can't be legal. It can't be legal to make something that beautiful.


Edit: AND the outro! "In order to feel the joy in life, you must suffer through the pain"... is that the lyric?

"To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain"

Great lyrics!

Sidenote: I know some have been "complaining" about the lyrics and their religious/spiritual overtones... I may be biased given the fact that I am a spiritual person, but coming from an objective frame-of-mind, the lyrics certainly have broader applications than a simple "faith-based" pigeonhole. Also, they're extremely catchy and thoughtful as well! There is a depth to them that makes these grand-sounding songs soar even further! I am caught up in the gravity of the new album... :neverusethis:
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Offline Whatsername

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1251 on: September 17, 2013, 12:49:49 PM »
Quote from: lyfeternl on September 17, 2013, 12:46:32 PM
Sidenote: I know some have been "complaining" about the lyrics and their religious/spiritual overtones... I may be biased given the fact that I am a spiritual person, but coming from an objective frame-of-mind, the lyrics certainly have broader applications than a simple "faith-based" pigeonhole. Also, they're extremely catchy and thoughtful as well! There is a depth to them that makes these grand-sounding songs soar even further! I am caught up in the gravity of the new album... :neverusethis:

...are you me? :lol I literally just said this in the other thread.
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Offline emtee

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1252 on: September 17, 2013, 12:51:58 PM »
My god. Illumination Theory may end up being my favorite song DT has ever done. Stunning from beginning to end. What a
ride. I've heard it 10+ times and each time my goosebumps get bigger.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1253 on: September 17, 2013, 01:02:52 PM »
Quote from: ronrule on September 17, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on September 17, 2013, 08:15:33 AM
Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

Mangini's drum parts are not as interesting in my opinion. Take a basic rock beat and add speedy, ambidextrous flourishes that are often in unison with the other members and you have a Mangini drum part.

That's what I was afraid of  :sad:.
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Offline chrisbDTM

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1254 on: September 17, 2013, 01:12:42 PM »
the amount of nasty riffs in the first 4 minutes of IT alone is CRAZY

seems like everyone is hung up on the length or the middle section and not even mentioning that beginning
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Offline Ħ

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1255 on: September 17, 2013, 01:14:06 PM »
What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?
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Offline emtee

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1256 on: September 17, 2013, 01:17:17 PM »
Big news eh?

Maybe Awake in it's entirety for the first set and all of DT12 in the 2nd set?
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Offline Zydar

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1257 on: September 17, 2013, 01:17:39 PM »
Quote from: Ħ on September 17, 2013, 01:14:06 PM
What in the world is James saying during the high verse in the middle of IT? Right after "a junkie for the high"?

"A soldier for his country
A junkie for the high
Teachers for their students
Vengeance for a crime

Rebels for their freedom
A tyrant for the prize
Courage for salvation
Money, love, and faith"
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Quote from: Odysseus on August 25, 2012, 04:03:44 AM
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Offline lyfeternl

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1258 on: September 17, 2013, 01:18:51 PM »
Quote from: Whatsername on September 17, 2013, 12:49:49 PM
...are you me? :lol I literally just said this in the other thread.

Great minds!  :tup

Glad someone else shares my opinion   :biggrin:
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Offline metropofreak

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Re: Self Titled Stream Discussion thread [READ FIRST POST, SPOILERS THEREAFTER]
« Reply #1259 on: September 17, 2013, 01:20:02 PM »
Quote from: ronrule on September 17, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on September 17, 2013, 08:15:33 AM
Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

Mangini's drum parts are not as interesting in my opinion. Take a basic rock beat and add speedy, ambidextrous flourishes that are often in unison with the other members and you have a Mangini drum part.

I disagree. I mean, listen to some of the drums in TLG. They are great! Reminds me of some of the stuff in Innocence Faded. And when he adds his unison parts to a more basic rhythm, it immediately becomes much more than a basic rock beat. It makes it very interesting indeed.
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