Self Titled Album Discussion thread [Expect Spoilers]

[JPX]

One question - where's the bass solo??

It's from 5:43 - 5:54 in Metropolis Pt. 1.

 

[reneranucci]

My first reactions:

- Great performances by each individual member, except JLB (although this is more a matter of personal taste as I can't stand his voice anymore). And JR seems a little bit less creative and experimental with his sounds, there was no part when I remember saying "this keyboard sound is new".
- DT is on autopilot, specially regarding the vocal melodies. Not much effort put there, that was a big disappointment as their melodies are usually good to excellent (although a little bit on the safe side).
- Most songs definitely sound like a mish mash of unrelated sections. True, this is part of the signature DT style, but in previous albums they had more time to develop their musical ideas, and even though there were abrupt transitions, you felt that there was more coherence. With this album, the songs are shorter, and many ideas are only explored for a few seconds, so the end product sounds especially convoluted.
- To me, this is the DT album with the worst "flow", especially after the first two tracks that actually flow very well. DT was very good at taking a bunch of good songs and make them flow beautifully and effortlessly into the big picture, and therefore the album ended up having some personality and feeling shorter than it actually was. It was like a well directed roller coaster, very dynamic and balanced, and with emotions put into the right place. This album feels either too forced or too bland, the end product is rushed and tiring to listen to.
- Enigma Machine was disappointing. An example of a song without personality. Riff here, riff there, solo here, amazing drums there, let's put an epic mini solo towards the end, and some Disney sounds after that. The result? A bunch of musical ideas thrown in together which make no sense as a song.

My opinion: The whole is much less than the sum of its parts. Great individual performances, some amazing musical ideas, mediocre album.

The good: The first two tracks, some amazing moments in the epic.
 

[Mebert78]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

[Dream Team]

Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

[emtee]

Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

My opinion only. I'll take Portnoy's compositions any day. Mangini is killer on this album but most of the fills are amazing
largely because of their speed, not necessarily that they are fresh and new odd combinations that are inspiring from
a compositional standpoint. I'm sure many people will disagree with me though

[The Stray Seed]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

[Thematt202]

One question - where's the bass solo??

It's from 5:43 - 5:54 in Metropolis Pt. 1.

 

I'm sure they said in one of the studio previews that there is a bass solo on the new album.  I don't remember hearing it.

[faemir]

I'm not a fan of the mix at all - guitars are very high up in it and the drums feel off.

That's two DT albums in a row with mixes I don't enjoy, which is a shame after black clouds sounded so great.

As for the album itself, it feels pretty forgettable aside from the epic - I'm not a fan of the more heavy/guitar driven feel of it at all. Haken are the new prog metal kings for me

[obscure]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

[RodrigoAltaf]

 I´m now falling in love with the chorus of The Looking Glass: "you live without shame, you´re digging up a goldmine...standing on the sideways, watching through the looking glass". Is that it?

[zepp-head]

Honestly, I am amused about the dislike on the new album.

Let's get things in proportion here - there is actually very little dislike towards the album. In fact, I'd say this is generally probably the most positive I've seen the fanbase to a new DT album since becoming a fan (around the SDOIT time, and I joined the forum community around the Octavarium time).

Of course there are some people who don't like it, that is the case for literally EVERY SINGLE band or artist that has been around for a long time. Long standing musicians and bands gradually build a following of fans from different tastes, backgrounds, etc. Especially artists where there is variation in style from album to album, such as DT, this means that every fan has different wants, and different likes and dislikes. So every single song they release, some will love it, many will like it, some won't care for it, and a few will hate it.

But frankly, the number of people expressing disappointment/dislike of this album is really quite small (just check out the poll thread for some perspective).

Pretty much this.  I'm not the type to attempt to rob anyone of their enjoyment of anything, let alone my favorite band.

I want to like the album, I just don't yet.

[Mebert78]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

Thanks!  And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy.  But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level.  So brave.  You gotta respect it.  My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album.   I can't believe they pulled this off.
   

[Jaq]

I simply can not stop listening to this album.

Without breaking the forum rules, lets just say that it's not just available as a stream, which means it's been moved to all the ways I listen to music (even if my damn iphone got confused and copied TEI three times because I bought the single) pending my purchase next week. I'm listening to it in my car, on my phone, on my computer, and it just grabs me every time I listen to it. It prunes away all the excessive wankery and instrumental overkill that the band had become known for while maintaining their sheer technical brilliance. IT is rapidly becoming one of my favorite DT tracks ever. I love that JMX is so upfront in terms not only of mix but in terms of what he's playing. I have no problem with the drum sound, but I'm willing to admit that it has a particularly 80s vibe to it and I'm still a sucker for 80s drum sounds (and anyone who isn't impressed by what's being played, well, I have no idea how to impress you.) It's a fantastic album.

One thing it's done, though, is make me realize how safe ADTOE was. I suppose making an album that was safe and familiar made sense under the circumstances, but I'm glad they stepped off in a bit different direction, as much as I loved ADTOE. This is the most focused the band has been in years. I love it to pieces.

[Thematt202]

In b4 ban! 

Soooooo.... bass solo?

[RodrigoAltaf]

I simply can not stop listening to this album.

Without breaking the forum rules, lets just say that it's not just available as a stream, which means it's been moved to all the ways I listen to music (even if my damn iphone got confused and copied TEI three times because I bought the single) pending my purchase next week. I'm listening to it in my car, on my phone, on my computer, and it just grabs me every time I listen to it. It prunes away all the excessive wankery and instrumental overkill that the band had become known for while maintaining their sheer technical brilliance. IT is rapidly becoming one of my favorite DT tracks ever. I love that JMX is so upfront in terms not only of mix but in terms of what he's playing. I have no problem with the drum sound, but I'm willing to admit that it has a particularly 80s vibe to it and I'm still a sucker for 80s drum sounds (and anyone who isn't impressed by what's being played, well, I have no idea how to impress you.) It's a fantastic album.

One thing it's done, though, is make me realize how safe ADTOE was. I suppose making an album that was safe and familiar made sense under the circumstances, but I'm glad they stepped off in a bit different direction, as much as I loved ADTOE. This is the most focused the band has been in years. I love it to pieces.

On the first bold point - fully agree!!! I´d like to hear from those who hated the album WHAT in God´s name should they have done to impress you.

On the second bold point - agree as well. ADTOE was a band willing to just "survive for now". It seems they have nurtured themselves with the energy of the ADTOE Tour and found the strength to carry on.

[mikeyd23]

Are Mangini's parts as creative and catchy as MP's were? Or are they just technical?

My opinion only. I'll take Portnoy's compositions any day. Mangini is killer on this album but most of the fills are amazing
largely because of their speed, not necessarily that they are fresh and new odd combinations that are inspiring from
a compositional standpoint. I'm sure many people will disagree with me though

I think they are two completely different styles of drummers, and under any other circumstances, I probably wouldn't compare them side by side because of that.  But, obviously the comparison is looming because of the context of the situation.

I have been struggling to compare these two though, even listening through the new record a few times now.  MP is just different than MM.  I don't think its a question of who is MORE creative... I would say the better question would be: whose creative style do you personally enjoy the most? Both guys are obviously great, it just comes down to personal preference.

Personally, I prefer I&W through ToT MP over MM.  But I think I prefer MM over Oct. through BC&SL MP.  It really changes depending on my mood though, some days I like to hear MP's in-front-of the beat groovy style, other days I like to hear MM's backbone, technical, colorful playing, it really just depends.

[JPX]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

Thanks!  And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy.  But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level.  So brave.  You gotta respect it.  My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album.   I can't believe they pulled this off.
 

See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.

[faemir]

See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.

QFT. To call an album the quintessential or definitive album of a band is at complete odds with it being experimental or out of their comfort zone.

You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.

Dream Theater have been in their comfort zone since Images and Words (not that there is anything wrong with that).

[Whatsername]

I'm just finishing my second listen through, and if I thought I liked it after the first one, I love it after the second! I still need more time to digest it, but the fact that I'm sitting here excited to click the replay button is a good thing in my book.

Seems to be quite a divide in the fan base. Normal for a new DT album. I'm curious how this will break down between new fans and
long time fans. From what I've read so far the long time fans really seem to dig this, not 100% but a very high percentage, while
the newer fans don't connect as well with this one. I'm sure someone will do a poll at some point. Results will be interesting.

I'd respectfully disagree because I only became a fan a few months ago and I'm in love. Still, it might be a trend that I haven't noticed. I just know for me personally, this is definitely one for the ages.

[Filipe_metalhead]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

Thanks!  And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy.  But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level.  So brave.  You gotta respect it.  My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album.   I can't believe they pulled this off.
 

See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.

Well, new is the music! The new album has new songs, new riffs, new melodies. Things we haven't heard it before.

Brave is the fact of having a self titled right NOW after a crisis like MP's leaving, it just gotta take balls to put a self tittled album based on what they had behind projecting what will it be in the future...

[philippaopao]

It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* 

[JPX]

See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.

QFT. To call an album the quintessential or definitive album of a band is at complete odds with it being experimental or out of their comfort zone.

You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.

Dream Theater have been in their comfort zone since Images and Words (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Even though I love them, I don't know if DT should even be called 'progressive' anymore. To me there is a lot more to being progressive than being technically proficient and using odd time signatures.
With that said, a lot of music that is given the progressive label, really isn't either.

[Whatsername]

It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* 

Nope I totally thought the same thing too. And out of the ashes of the plane crash rises DT 2.0?

[emtee]

One more thought. This is my favorite JR performance by miles. It's the most tasteful/appealing to me that he has ever
been.

[The Stray Seed]

One more thought. This is my favorite JR performance by miles. It's the most tasteful/appealing to me that he has ever
been.

Same here.

[Buckethead]

No better feeling as a longtime fan (not nearly as long as many) than pride! I was so proud of our guys last night when I listened to the album for the first time, they did a great job. I think what came through the most for me is that you can  hear the fun in the music again, and I can't wait to have more great times listening to this music because I like it a lot.

and I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man

[eviljust]

It just came to me that the "woosh" at the end of the heavenly orchestra section of IT sounds like a plane crashing, and then I look at the album cover of ADTOE. *overanalyzation imminent* 

Nope I totally thought the same thing too. And out of the ashes of the plane crash rises DT 2.0?

That is a nice thought. To me they sound fresher and more inspired than, basically 10 years. JM is back on top, JP set himself to another level - that was hard - JR finally stopped to shredding in a useless way and James is just astounding. Not to mention the brand new Mike, which is..well, may I say epicsome.

[Whatsername]

I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man

I agree!

[Podaar]

For those who might be concerned that MM doesn't have up to par creativity and groove I present for your consideration The Looking Glass! 

[The Stray Seed]

I don't care what anybody says, JLB is the man

I agree!

This.

For those who might be concerned that MM doesn't have up to par creativity and groove I present for your consideration The Looking Glass! 

And this. =)

[mikeyd23]

The Looking Glass is really growing on me a lot!!

The second chorus into dat sweet bass groove into dat ridiculous JP solo is pretty awesome!

Really feeling the chorus of this song right now.  I love how the first half is clean the first two times they play it and then after it comes back in after the guitar solo its just massive!!  If I have one complaint about this song right now is that it feels like it ends a little too quick.  Even if they just went back and played that big guitar riff they used as the intro for the outro that would do it for me.  But overall, this song is really good and it totally just sucked me in while I'm listening to it at work.  Took me probably 3 or 4 spins to get to this point, which is a good sign, because this stuff just keeps growing on me!!

Oh and I agree, MM sounds super good on this track, real groovy and cool creative parts flying in and out constantly!

 

[Zook]

Okay guys, I'm halfway through my first listen of the album, and I can now say that it is the worst DT album ever recorded, by far.

Sure Bob.

[JPX]

This band has balls.  They know they are the most revered progressive metal band out there and that I&W is a benchmark by which many other progressive metal albums are judged.  Yet, after a 25-year career, they choose to self-title an album?  They are basically saying that they believe this album is their greatest work, and it is the new benchmark by which future progressive metal albums should be judged.  What a huge risk.  If it falls flat, they look pretty silly.  But, in my opinion, they freaking pulled it off.  This album is absolute perfection from start to finish.  This is going to be the album that many people think of when they think of DT, or progressive metal.  Bravo, Dream Theater!

Great post!!    I absolutely agree with you!

Thanks!  And seriously, this band has been around so long they could've been content to just release the same types of albums and everyone would be happy.  But they wanted to set an even higher bar for themselves and push things to an even higher new level.  So brave.  You gotta respect it.  My respect for DT, which was crazy high to begin with, just exploded through the roof with this album.   I can't believe they pulled this off.
 

See, for me I get why they went with a s/t record because it sounds like Dream Theater. But there in lies the problem for me - it's the opposite of your statement - I could find an past example of every part of this album in their back catalogue. I don't see anything new or brave, or any bars being raised.

Well, new is the music! The new album has new songs, new riffs, new melodies. Things we haven't heard it before.

Brave is the fact of having a self titled right NOW after a crisis like MP's leaving, it just gotta take balls to put a self tittled album based on what they had behind projecting what will it be in the future...

Just because it's new in terms of it's age, doesn't mean it's new in terms of it's originality.

And I agree that's it's brave to release a s/t album at this point in their career. It would be braver however to write something completely unique at this point in their career. And MP was a long time ago, there's no crisis anymore.

[Whatsername]

One of my favorite vocal moments is in the bridge of TLG where James sings, "you are caught up in the gravity." SO beautiful. I get chills.

[ariich]

You want experimention? Look at Radiohead, Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Muse, Opeth, Nine Inch Nails, Amorphis, BTBAM, etc.

Wat. As much as I love them, they've basically released the same album 5 times in a row.

But yes, experimental =/= good. If you're someone who really values experimentation then fair enough if this doesn't do it for you (although I still think there are some nice new tricks on this album), but a lot of the people who are complaining about the lack of experimentation seem to be people who love other bands/albums that are the same or worse in that regard.