Author Topic: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row  (Read 2187 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« on: September 06, 2013, 04:44:46 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/06/justice/arizona-milke-release/index.html

While this thread will certainly (d)evolve into the usual discussion about the death penalty, I actually have a different question: How can a person be on death row for 22 years? I mean, let's be honest, killing a person is not exactly the hardest thing in the world, is it? Was the prison even still planning to execute her at all?
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2013, 04:52:31 PM »
I've wondered about that, too.  How can someone be on death row for years and years?  I know there are usually appeals, or maybe some activist group gets involved and some judge orders a stay of execution, but certainly there's some kind of limit, right?

Offline Orthogonal

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2013, 04:54:44 PM »
Appeals and the notoriously slow justice system. They schedule a meeting, lawyers ask for an extension, next hearing set 6 months later and it goes on and on.

Offline carl320

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 08:55:28 AM »
I'm wondering how she will move on with her life after being imprisoned for so long.  I can't imagine after being jailed for that long that the re-assimilation into society will be easy.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 09:13:58 AM »
You know, that would be an incredibly interesting statistic to read actually. Everybody hears of the "relapse rate" of criminals leaving prison, but what about people who were wrongly convicted and then get released? Are they more likely to commit a crime after the "conditioning" in prison?
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Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 09:28:36 AM »
You know, that would be an incredibly interesting statistic to read actually. Everybody hears of the "relapse rate" of criminals leaving prison, but what about people who were wrongly convicted and then get released? Are they more likely to commit a crime after the "conditioning" in prison?
That is extremely interesting...
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 10:48:10 AM »
I'm wondering how she will move on with her life after being imprisoned for so long.  I can't imagine after being jailed for that long that the re-assimilation into society will be easy.


I can only go by my own experience, but I can definitely confirm that it's extremely difficult to reintegrate into society after a prolonged incarceration.  In my case it was 16 years, 9 months, 11 days.  I've been out a little over 15 years now and I still suffer from quite a few PTSD symptoms and I'll probably have to see a shrink for the rest of my life.  I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves can really comprehend what it does to you.

Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 03:23:20 AM »
I'm wondering how she will move on with her life after being imprisoned for so long.  I can't imagine after being jailed for that long that the re-assimilation into society will be easy.


I can only go by my own experience, but I can definitely confirm that it's extremely difficult to reintegrate into society after a prolonged incarceration.  In my case it was 16 years, 9 months, 11 days.  I've been out a little over 15 years now and I still suffer from quite a few PTSD symptoms and I'll probably have to see a shrink for the rest of my life.  I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves can really comprehend what it does to you.



Forgive me for asking, and please don't feel you have to respond if you don't feel comfortable doing so. What is the hardest part about reintegrating? Is it that the experience of incarceration itself has changed you or is it how society treats those that have paid their debt to society?

Edit; must look at post dates before posting!  :facepalm:
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 05:40:55 AM »
I'm wondering how she will move on with her life after being imprisoned for so long.  I can't imagine after being jailed for that long that the re-assimilation into society will be easy.


I can only go by my own experience, but I can definitely confirm that it's extremely difficult to reintegrate into society after a prolonged incarceration.  In my case it was 16 years, 9 months, 11 days.  I've been out a little over 15 years now and I still suffer from quite a few PTSD symptoms and I'll probably have to see a shrink for the rest of my life.  I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves can really comprehend what it does to you.

Well, you learn something new about somebody every day. 

Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 07:02:14 AM »
You do and I value that contribution.

Richard Branson is championing employers getting behind giving those with criminal records a break. The whole CRB checking system in the UK has become nothing more than a finger pointing exercise and yet another way that those law abiding citizens who have paid their debt to society are still being stigmatised.

The article I read about Richard Branson's proposals pointed to a statistic that (if I remember correctly) states that something like 1 in 3 18 - 35 year old men have a record. That is a significant chunk of the work force.

Records should not be for life. There are career criminals for sure. There are those that no period of incarceration will help. The majority of those in prison though are not "criminals" in the sense that the hype would have you believe. They are generally people that made a bad choice at some point in their life and paid a price. And they should be allowed to pay that price and move on.

The chances are that the biggest difference between "them and us" or you and I is that they got caught and we didn't. I'd suggest (with no statistics to back it up) that perhaps the majority of people that hit age 65 without a criminal record have probably done something in their life at one time that would have warranted one.
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Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 07:03:24 AM »
And my apologies for derailing the thread.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 12:59:59 PM »
I'm wondering how she will move on with her life after being imprisoned for so long.  I can't imagine after being jailed for that long that the re-assimilation into society will be easy.


I can only go by my own experience, but I can definitely confirm that it's extremely difficult to reintegrate into society after a prolonged incarceration.  In my case it was 16 years, 9 months, 11 days.  I've been out a little over 15 years now and I still suffer from quite a few PTSD symptoms and I'll probably have to see a shrink for the rest of my life.  I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves can really comprehend what it does to you.



Forgive me for asking, and please don't feel you have to respond if you don't feel comfortable doing so. What is the hardest part about reintegrating? Is it that the experience of incarceration itself has changed you or is it how society treats those that have paid their debt to society?

Edit; must look at post dates before posting!  :facepalm:


Hey man, I'm happy to answer any questions you have.  I'm not really sure what the answer is.  One of the things that I struggled with a lot in the beginning was large crowds.  Whenever we went to a shopping mall or any other place where there were a ton of people gathered in one place (concerts, amusement parks, beaches, malls and shopping centers, etc) I always became very jittery and nervous.  The thing about being incarcerated is you see the same faces day in and day out.  For years at a time you live/work/sleep/eat/shit/shower/shave with the same people over and over and over again and again and again. 


Then suddenly, one day, BAM!  You're out on the streets.  And every single person you see is -instead of being familiar to you- a stranger.  In prison, new people present new potential risks.  They have to be watched.  You have to evaluate how much of a threat they might be.  And until or unless you get to know that person, you can never turn your back to them.  That's just how it is.  Dealing with that once in a while -maybe two or three times a month- is a hell of a lot different than suddenly being placed in a situation where there are 500 people within 100 feet of where you're standing and you don't know a single one of them  :eek    I know it sounds weird, but it's a big part of reintegration.



The majority of those in prison though are not "criminals" in the sense that the hype would have you believe. They are generally people that made a bad choice at some point in their life and paid a price. And they should be allowed to pay that price and move on.

The chances are that the biggest difference between "them and us" or you and I is that they got caught and we didn't. I'd suggest (with no statistics to back it up) that perhaps the majority of people that hit age 65 without a criminal record have probably done something in their life at one time that would have warranted one.


Hammer, meet nail.


I'd say that about 75% of the people I became "friends" with on the inside were people in that "made a bad choice" and got caught.  And for every single person like that there are probably two or three who made similarly bad choices that could or should have led to incarceration, but they were not caught.  Is there really a difference between the person who gets caught and goes to prison and the person who doesn't get caught?  Not really. 


One thing for sure, though:  Our penal system is an abject failure.  It's a national disgrace.  I could tell you shit about the prison system that would make your head explode.




Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 03:08:48 AM »
Thanks for sharing :-)

If ever I'm stood within 100 feet of you I'd expect you to buy me a beer!
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2013, 02:02:55 PM »
Thanks for sharing :-)

If ever I'm stood within 100 feet of you I'd expect you to buy me a beer!


No problem.  But I'll stick with water.   :biggrin:

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2013, 02:20:13 PM »
Altair water?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2013, 01:14:04 PM »
I don't know what that means?

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2013, 01:27:20 PM »
 :eek

Altair water is a beverage exported from the Altair system.

While under the influence of Captain Spock's katra in 2285, Dr. Leonard McCoy ordered an Altair water from a bar he frequented on Earth. (TOS movie: Star Trek III: The Search for Spock)
 
In 2293, Spock ordered an Altair water when he and Alexandra Tremontaine visited the Notes on the Water café on Alonis. (TOS novel: The Fire and the Rose)
 
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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2013, 01:40:28 PM »
Er, OK  ;D

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 01:48:59 PM »
I would think a guy with Kirk as his avatar would have got the reference :p
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2013, 01:55:56 PM »
I would think a guy with Kirk as his avatar would have got the reference :p

That thought crossed my mind. 

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2013, 02:04:35 PM »
I would think a guy with Kirk as his avatar would have got the reference :p


Ahh, yes, but what you probably don't realize is that handle has very little to do with the actual character of James T. Kirk and more to do with me trying to come up with a cool handle for the Spock's Beard message board about 12 years ago  :lol


Sure, I like Star Trek, but I'm not into all that granular detail about it.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 08:10:21 AM »
I would think a guy with Kirk as his avatar would have got the reference :p


Ahh, yes, but what you probably don't realize is that handle has very little to do with the actual character of James T. Kirk and more to do with me trying to come up with a cool handle for the Spock's Beard message board about 12 years ago  :lol


Sure, I like Star Trek, but I'm not into all that granular detail about it.

That's actually pretty damn funny now that I know WHY you created that name.   :lol


Offline Orbert

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2013, 08:29:37 AM »
I thought Kirk's Nosehair was a bizarre, rather unfunny handle for a long time; then he pointed out the connection to Spock's Beard and it all made sense.  Still pretty bizarre, but at least it's funny now.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Woman gets released after 22 years of death row
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2013, 06:25:23 AM »
Appeals and the notoriously slow justice system. They schedule a meeting, lawyers ask for an extension, next hearing set 6 months later and it goes on and on.

Pretty much this, my gf is an attorney and she says it's fairly simple to drag out a case with a competent legal team.

I also think it would be to exhaust every possible avenue of getting released or at least losing the death penalty charge.