Author Topic: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - Five left!  (Read 12458 times)

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Offline Ruba

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Four cool songs and Octavarium.

Offline Scorpion

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Four cool songs and Octavarium.

I agree. Though it's good to have Octavarium out the way.
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Hey, the length is fine :azn: Thanks!

Offline Whatsername

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I love that you're giving some love to Hollow Years. :heart

And then you promptly destroy me with putting Octavarium so low. :lol
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Offline JoeG

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Evidently I've found a location for Octavarium on the list which leaves absolutely no one happy! I love listening to it and find it near-flawless, but near-flawless isn't quite good enough when compared to 20 even better songs.

It's also probably been lowered somewhat by the fact that most Dream Theater fans I know in real life fall into the "There is Octavarium, and then there is everything else" category when doing these rankings. I've heard plenty of in-depth explanations for why I am factually wrong for my views on it.  :lol

Offline aprilethereal

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Well you are :P

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Four cool songs and Octavarium.
I agree. Though it's good to have Octavarium out the way.

Offline JoeG

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Well you are :P

 :rollin


Anyways, time to rub salt in the wounds of Octavarium lovers the world wide by putting some downright weird things above it! Onto the top 20, starting off with four great songs



20. Take Away My Pain (Falling Into Infinity)
Just stay with me tonight
I'm tired of this fight


I have never understood the hate this song gets. It's a very well put together piece of music. From great lyrics which serve as a great tribute without loosing their poetic edge, to pure emotion from John Petrucci's playing, it's a fantastic little song. It sounds quite different from most everything Dream Theater has done, but works very well. Minimalistic, with some powerful vocals, emotional guitar, and minimalistic but critical keys and bass. And it gives us perhaps the most under appreciated Petrucci solo of all time. Short but sweet, with his heart and soul poured into every bit of it.

For a song with so few live performances, there are a good number of versions of this one, all with great little variations on it. First of course is the demo version, which develops such a great feel to it through the varied pacing and beautiful guitar work, with a great alternate take on the solo. The alternate lyrics are also great; "there'll be no encore after all" is so powerful, with such a huge delivery by James. The album version seems to strip some of the emotion from the original to give it a more poppy feel, but this works well in its own right. In particular, the "chirpy" guitar effects really add to it, and I absolutely LOVE the tribal drum groove which comes front and center on this version during the intro and verses. The Irving Plaza version, and other bootlegs from that tour, typically features a great mixture of elements from the demo and album, with the emotion generated by the variable pacing, Mike's unhinged drumming, raw power from James, and the same from the John's solo, the kind of power that can only be achieved live. I love that the solo seems to have never been played the same twice, it's just John playing to the song and from the heart. And then there's the Once in a LIVEtime version, where we get the gift of sax again. It's a shame that this came at the expense of some of the song's best elements, but it works very well in its own right, as does using the organ to carry original guitar line, and maintain the acoustic strumming throughout. The pacing feels more like the album version, but the sax brings all the emotion back and then some, especially when Derek's fantastic piano work appears under it.

All the versions have their merits, but personally I think this less known version combines them most effectively. Simply beautiful.



19. In The Name of God (Train of Thought)
Blurring the lines between virtue and sin

Train of Thought's best song, this epic closer. It's a bit slower paced than a lot of Dream Theater's other heavy works, but it works even better than most of them. The main riff is incredibly hard hitting, and it only gets better from there. From the rumbling bass riffing under the first verse, to the piano preview of the main melody, to the badass riff which drives the second verse forwards, its everything that makes heavy Dream Theater great, without a moment wasted. And as suddenly as it all began, we take a hauntingly quiet instrumental break that takes the song in a new direction, through a hard hitting vocal bridge into one of Dream Theater's most technical sections of all time. Once the song takes a momentary break after the first riff driven section, all hell breaks loose, as John Petrucci puts on a precision display that somehow doesn't loose its musicality even once, in large part thanks to the rock solid and very visible groove established by John Myung and Mike Portnoy. After the quick and somewhat forgettable solo tradeoff that follows, John and Jordan launch into an unison of epic proportions, ending in a screeching climactic note that sends chills down my spine each and every time I hear it, and the blast back to the main riff that follows. The final chorus comes and goes, but is followed up by a powerful final vocal section, driven by that chilling ascending piano passage carried by what sounds like it could be the force of a full orchestra. And then, the reason that I haven't listened to the studio version more than a few times in the past 3 years: the outro solo. The song maintains all the power of the final vocal section, as Petrucci takes us on a journey. Each and every variant of this solo I've heard has been incredible, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't think to do it for the album. When Petrucci talks about the outro of Illumination Theory giving him the role of "the guy on top of the mountain with my hair blowing" as he solos, I hope he manages to capture just half the epic feeling the live, the proper In The Name of God outro does.



18. Raise the Knife (Falling Into Infinity Demos)
There comes a time
Compromising my life
Just won't do


Why oh why did this have to be cut from Falling Into Infinity? Every member has their moment to shine, from James' passionate delivery of the final chorus, to John Myung's groove to lead us into the instrumental, to the unconventional, almost spooky sounding guitar work that comes afterwords. However, the two standout members through every second of this piece are Mike and Derek; both have some simply unbelievable creative parts. Mike's drum work is among his best, and Derek brought a great jazzy edge to the song, along with some huge background synth and organ work.

There's not a single part of this song which isn't simply mind blowing (aside from maybe the lyrics, which are well composed and work well on a more abstract level, but it's hard to shake the somewhat nasty inspiration behind them). This song captures everything that Dream Theater is as well as any piece cited traditionally as a "definitive" work. The intro alone combines prog, metal, and atmospheric sections completely seamlessly in a passage less than two minutes long, which acts almost as an overture, quoting the highly varied themes which will build the piece. The band shows their ability to grow a piece of music as a slow but steady buildup from four repeated piano notes into a huge section which has clear shades of the ACOS finale occurs within the first verse. The song never looses an unreal proggy edge to it usually reserved for instrumental sections or songs, and has amazing part after amazing part. I love the more sinister edge the third verse takes on, which leads into an instrumental which can be best described as "chilling." Like the Hollow Years extended solo, this instrumental is not thrown in simply for the sake of it, but builds the song to new levels and gives the final chorus truly explosive power. But the best is still yet to come though, as that outro hits you. Incredible. Just incredible. Its only flaw is that it's too short, and thank god for the extension it received on Score. I could listen to John build the intensity of that riff as synths soar over it beautifully for hours.



17. Bridges In The Sky (A Dramatic Turn of Events)
And at last the time has come
To unite again as one


Another of Dream Theater's very best heavy pieces, which also effectively captures some of their more melodic elements to create something stunning. Bridges In The Sky was a brilliant concert opener, moving from the off-the-wall throat singing, to a beautiful etheral intro, to an explosive, complex, hard hitting guitar riff. I cannot get enough of the moment when the intro riffing dies down a bit and that soaring distorted chorus patch comes in backed by a sweet drum groove to lead us into the vocals. Most of the song is guitar riff driven, with some very creative, if repetitive, drumming that gives it a very cool edge. But we get a brilliant break from the brutal assault for a gorgeous soaring chorus. One of A Dramatic Turn of Events' most memorable parts, with its almost anthemic feeling. Again, the choir patch Jordan uses here takes it to another level.

The instrumental section is the best part (followed closely by the vocal buildup that leads to it). It's absolutely perfect. It doesn't overstay its welcome, is literally overflowing with cool proggy bits, and fits the song perfectly. Like Stream of Consciousness, it focuses on using steadily evolving riffs to drive it along rather than soloing for the most part, although Jordan's organ solo is very well done as well. And Mangini takes the opportunity to unleash himself from the relatively restrained performance of the rest of the song, doing some really impressive thing. And it flows perfectly back into the final chorus. I also love how the final vocal line uses the same build-up that kicked off the instrumental this time to bring the song back to the opening riff and bring the piece full circle, connecting everything together, and creating a great cohesive piece, which showcases everything Dream Theater is, and everything that had gone missing at times in the prior two albums.

Offline aprilethereal

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I really like TAMP, and the others are absolutely amazing. Of course none of them is better than Octavarium ;)



everything that makes heavy Dream Theater great, without a moment wasted

loltrainofthoughtpun :D

Offline ?

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2013, 02:20:55 AM »
ITNOG and BITS :metal

Offline Onno

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2013, 02:54:50 AM »
Really great to see RTK so high. ITNOG and BITS are also amazing, and Take Away My Pain is a nice song.

Offline Ruba

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #80 on: September 15, 2013, 04:32:25 AM »
Interesting choices.

Take Away My Pain is my least favourite on FII, but it doesn't mean it's bad by any means. Surprised to see it this high.

ITNOG is alright I guess, but the chorus pretty dull and it is repeated way too many times. I don't see why it is a fan favourite.

I just listened Raise the Knife for the first time in three years, and it is pretty damn sweet.  :tup

Bridges in the Sky is good, the only one of these that made my top 50 (although RTK would have if I had known it back then better).

Offline 425

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
I forgot to comment on your last update, so I'll be commenting a lot here. I do like almost all of your picks here, so :tup

O28/SDV are two of DT's best compact songs, fantastic choices. Erotomania isn't one of my favorites, but I don't dislike it. BAI and 8VM are brilliant but too low.

Hollow Years is a fantastic choice! I love that one!

Take Away My Pain is a weird one for me. I don't like the album version at all, but I love the demo. So that version is a good choice IMO.

Raise the Knife hasn't clicked with me yet, but it's still a good one.

ITNOG and BITS are fantastic choices.
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Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2013, 10:34:19 AM »
Well, this is curious. Three songs I don't really care for. :lol

Offline jayvee3

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2013, 10:38:53 AM »
Nice picks. Y'know, I really like Take Away My Pain too. Yes, I believe the demo version is superior, and it would have been a show stopping piece on FII. But the album version is very nice, and definitely garners a lot on unnecessary hate. I feel similar about Anna Lee too - really like that tune.

Hollow years as mentioned earlier is great too. If the album version included that solo that Petrucci plays live - it would have serious wow factor. While FII is one of my upper albums, your picks and descriptions also help illustrate that with some changes to a few areas, it could have been close to their very finest work  :tup

Offline Whatsername

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2013, 07:04:11 PM »
I really like TAMP, and the others are absolutely amazing. Of course none of them is better than Octavarium ;)
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2013, 07:19:33 PM »
I love love love TAMP. I can't really decide if I like the album version or the demo version better, they both are absolutely amazing.
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Hey, the length is fine :azn: Thanks!

Offline JoeG

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs - 16 to go
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2013, 03:33:18 AM »
Love seeing all the Take Away My Pain appreciation! Hugely underrated piece.

Anyways, I'm back after a few days off so that this doesn't get completely and totally buried by DT12 squeeing! Despite temptations to sneak Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory into my top 10, the list is continuing as planned, with three more songs: an under appreciated epic, a song which despite being ranked up at #15 will be universally decried as "far too low," and a wacko pick out of left field.

16. In the Presence of Enemies (Systematic Chaos)
I have known you, but do you know me?

Systematic Chaos was the first Dream Theater album I purchased as a whole and appreciated from beginning to end. Although its accessability was a blessing at the time, since then some of its flaws have resulted in most songs falling lower and lower in my rankings, with The Dark Eternal Night being the only one to remain on my list. But this piece hasn't budged one bit, because it's brilliant. The hardest hitting of all Dream Theater epics, and an often overlooked high point of their discography. Throughout the song, Jordan and Mike are the stars. Mike gives by far his most creative and proggy performance of Systematic Chaos, with some really good stuff. Jordan, meanwhile, while rarely taking center stage, contributes a truly dazzling array of sounds, with some great distorted effects and beautiful orchestral lines. He also plays some really fast stuff in parts where one might expect him to lay back and provide very basic atmosphere, which really add to the piece while not taking center stage. John Petrucci is of course all over the place in this one as well, and John Myung is fairly visible in some parts, unlike a lot of Systematic Chaos. The lyrics, while unremarkable, are well written and tell the story well, and James delivers them well.

The introductory instrumental section, which lasts over 5 minutes, is incredible. Comes out of the gate screaming with a hard hitting riff and drum part, and doesn't let up. Riffs and solos alike here preview themes which will appear over the course of the piece. After dying down, there's a beautiful little part driven by clean guitars, followed by a drum build up into some real heavy riffing. As suddenly as it came, the clean guitar theme is back, this time picked up by the dirty organ, and slightly altered. Later, it's back with huge guitar riffs backing it to drive the main vocal theme of this first section. The way that themes constantly reappear, in so many different forms, throughout this piece is a large part of what makes it so great for me.

The song slows down as part 2 opens, but that doesn't mean there aren't great parts here as well. The beautiful restrained piano bit, swelling guitars, and how they gradually evolve to preview the vocal theme which will drive the "Dark Master" part, all this contributes to In The Presence of Enemies feeling like one of the most cohesive epics they have ever done. Suddenly we're back to full energy as James blasts us with the "Angels fall" line, and the section goes into its headbanger of a chorus. I downright LOVE part after this and the transition that leads into it, where the pace picks up and the fan chanting comes in. The way the vocals and guitar trade off just makes me want to do this each and every time I hear it:

   

And then, after a incredible vocal section with some subtle but very effective sweeping keys underneath, and a second, organ driven vocal buildup, there's The Reckoning. Why this section gets any hate at all is beyond me. It does all the things I love in a Dream Theater instrumental. There are so many parts where riffs build upon themselves gradually rather than abruptly shifting, the same technique I loved so much about Stream of Consciousness. The first minute of The Reckoning, and 10:34-10:57 are fantastic examples, the latter being perhaps my favorite part of the whole song. Everything here is multilayered and very carefully constructed, and despite incredible complexity, the riff driven first half has a real groove to it. The first guitar and keyboard solos that follow are not John or Jordan's best, but they don't feel overdone or there for the sake of being there to me either. This is helped by the fact that they are performed over the riffs from the intro of Part 1 which lead to the rapid sweeping guitar solo which follows them. Again, this riff leads to an epic sweeping guitar solo which builds up to where the whole piece began, quoting Part 1, but huger this time, with screaming key effects leading into the appearance of orchestral parts. Chills, each and every time I hear that bit. The final vocal section and ending doesn't quite stack up with their other epics, but it doesn't need to, the brilliant music which precedes it is enough to make In The Presence of Enemies Dream Theater's greatest epic (unless I continue to like Illumination Theory as much as I am right now).



15. Metropolis Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper (Images & Words)
I was told there's a miracle for each day that I try

If we did a DTF-wide poll for top songs, I'm willing to bet Metropolis would end up on top, and with good reason. It features just about everything that's great about Dream Theater and mixes it into a very cohesive package, with some real highlights thrown in as well. We all know why it's great, so I'll try to be (somewhat) brief. The introduction, and the seven note explosion out of it into the main riff, is one of Dream Theater's very finest moments. It seems to evoke the title of the song; every time I hear that explosion, I get a mental image of driving out of a tunnel and being thrust into a sprawling Metropolis. I love how the theme from that section appears constantly throughout the song, whether it be a return to the drum beat that drives it, or soaring strings/synths carrying the riff over vocal lines. Every member gets a chance to shine. Mike has some incredible drumming throughout, with great grooves (Tom tom bit after the intro riff dies down), solos (instrumental section, 5:02), and heavy playing (guitar solo after the bass solo), and technical work (final bit of the instrumental). John Myung of course has the bass solo, but has many great parts throughout (the high ascending part he repeats before the unison at around the 7 minute mark comes to miind). John and Kevin of course contribute some great solos and unison sections as well. Kevin in particularly makes his mark, with some incredible organ work in the cool-down post instrumental section, and beautiful soaring synth lines in the first vocal section. I love how those lines were played by the orchestra on Score. And then there's James. One of his finest vocal performances. Songs from earlier Dream Theater discs seem to be written to better fit his voice, and this is a prime example. Rather than forced snarling heavy singing, James simple lets loose with incredible soaring operatic vocals, which give an already great song an incredible edge. In particular, they take the outro to stratospheric heights, and make it a classic concert closer for Dream Theater.

Despite being very good at just about everything, Metropolis doesn't go above and beyond "very good" for most things. I have nothing bad to say about it, but it's only #15 as a result. From this point on, most songs truly excel at something, bringing in an underrepresented element in Dream Theater's music and pulling it off brilliantly, or serving as a definitive example of something while maintaining the high quality of Metropolis throughout.

And speaking of underrepresented qualities, the next song sounds like nothing else in the catalog and does so very, very well, despite practically never being ranked up here.



14. Only A Matter Of Time (When Dream and Day Unite)
And though the time will come when dream and day unite
Tonight the only consolation causing him to fight
Is fearless faith in destiny


When I first heard the studio version of When Dream and Day Unite, I basically dismissed it a few songs in thanks to the production, vocals, and relative weakness of many songs (I'm no Ytse Jam fan either). As a result, I never made it to the end, and as a result, was utterly shocked when this fantastic little piece came out of nowhere when I saw Budokan for the first time. Since then, I've gained a greater appreciation for some WDADU songs, but none can touch its closer, especially with the incredible performances it received again and again during the Train of Thought era.

The vocal melodies get a lot of criticism in this one, but I like the rushed feeling they have, it gives the song a frantic feeling which works well with the lyrics, which are great on their own. The rhythm section is also downright incredible here. Mike Portnoy is at his most creative, with off the wall drum parts left and right, and John Myung is very upfront in this piece, keeping a somewhat chaotic song tied together, and practically never just doubling Petrucci. But it's the keyboards that put this song in a category of its own.

Only A Matter of Time has a real 80's feel to it that hasn't fully been captured anywhere else in Dream Theater's music. The synth sounds and parts feel like they could have come right off of a Van Halen record from their peak, and they drive the song along every step of the way. Each of the four (count 'em!) key solos is better than the last. The intro shows Kevin's talents for creating something incredible without to many notes in the process. The second, more of a bridge than a solo with its choir bursts, sets the stage beautifully for a short but absolutely perfect guitar break, driven by a great unorthodox drum beat and beautiful soaring synth lines. The third, which also has some great key work leading into it before and during a short vocal passage, is short but sweet. This one features some great embellishments by Jordan live, one of relatively few times when I think that his sometimes liberal interpretation of Kevin's parts adds dramatically to them. The "galloping" he does here on Live at Budokan is great, and again makes me wish that Dream Theater would use sounds like this again. Things get taken up yet another notch after the vocals leave us, kicked off by another brilliant climbing synth solo. Both the more straightforward studio version of this and Jordan's more frantic interpretation are breathtaking. But the best is yet to come, as the bass line builds the song to climax, things pause, and we're thrown into one of Dream Theater's all time great album closing moments. It's chaotic orchestrated brilliance. Keys lead the way as keys, guitars, drum and bass create what feels like a frantic four part harmony, with each instrument swelling, fading, and reaching high points independantly. And then with a bang, it's all over. What an ending. What a closer. What a piece of music.

Offline aprilethereal

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I love ITPOE, and although I'd rank it quite a bit lower, it's great to see some appreciation for it. And the gifs are hilarious, as is the whole SC documentary :lol
I wish they'd do a documentary like that again.

And btw Metropolis is way too low :P

Offline Whatsername

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:metal ITPOE doesn't get enough love in my mind. And Metropolis is a godly song.
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Offline Ruba

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Three masterpieces. In fact, all of them were in my top 10.

Offline Dream Team

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Ah yes, another person who "gets it". Only A Matter Of Time is a fantastic song. DT's best lyrics, possibly the best outro and definitely some of the best melodies ever. Great selection.  :tup

Metropolis I also love, but ITPOE for me loses it in the 2nd half.

Offline 425

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ITPOE and Metropolis are brilliant. I also really love Only a Matter of Time, though maybe not quite that much. It's my second favorite on WDADU after TKH, and I agree with everything you said. I don't have Budokan yet, so I've only heard the album version and the version on WDADR. It's one of the songs I'm most excited to hear once I get Budokan.

Anyway, love love love love these choices!
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Lucien

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Lol. There is a DTF-wide poll. It's run by a user named Destiny of Chaos, called Dream Theater the League.

This year, A Change of Seasons won against Octavarium.
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Offline JoeG

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ITPOE and Metropolis are brilliant. I also really love Only a Matter of Time, though maybe not quite that much. It's my second favorite on WDADU after TKH, and I agree with everything you said. I don't have Budokan yet, so I've only heard the album version and the version on WDADR. It's one of the songs I'm most excited to hear once I get Budokan.

Anyway, love love love love these choices!

You won't be disappointed. It's not unlike the WDADR performance, but with much better quality, and Jordan kicking things up another few notches.

Offline aprilethereal

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Lol. There is a DTF-wide poll. It's run by a user named Destiny of Chaos, called Dream Theater the League.

This year, A Change of Seasons won against Octavarium.

Lol. What is the purpose of this post?

Offline Bolsters

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Lol. There is a DTF-wide poll. It's run by a user named Destiny of Chaos, called Dream Theater the League.
This year, A Change of Seasons won against Octavarium.
Lol. What is the purpose of this post?
If we did a DTF-wide poll for top songs, I'm willing to bet Metropolis would end up on top, and with good reason.

Offline aprilethereal

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Oh fuck, sorry :lol

Offline JoeG

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Lol. There is a DTF-wide poll. It's run by a user named Destiny of Chaos, called Dream Theater the League.

This year, A Change of Seasons won against Octavarium.

Well that doesn't leave me any more conventional, seeing as those two went out of the picture at #35 and #21 respectively!  :lol

Anyways, three more songs this morning to bring us down to the final 10.

13. Surrounded (Images & Words)
But I have given all that I could take
And now I've only habits left to break


Hidden amongst the prog driven longer pieces of Images & Words is this incredible little gem. Rarely has Dream Theater so perfectly merged their beautiful melodic edge with a rocker like this, which creates a vibe which is both unique and downright stunning, while at the same time being unmistakable Dream Theater. James is the star of this one, giving one of his very best studio performances. He contributes powerful, emotional vocals that mesh perfectly with the music, and complement the downright stunning lyrics, the contribution Kevin brought to Dream Theater that I miss the most. Like many of his, aside from a poetic quality which works great with the music, they're very abstract and interpret-able in a number of ways. To me, they're about ceasing to run from the problems in life, and facing them down, and the rediscovery of self-worth and meaning that can result.

Besides the lyrics, the music here is downright gorgeous. There are some fantastic key sounds from Kevin all over the place, literally from beginning to end, both in lead and supporting roles. The slow piano intro is incredible. The first guitar bit is breathtaking, it feels like a beautiful sunrise after a dark eternal night. Mike's drumming is brilliantly constructed; it's simple and serves to support the other instruments much more than his typical "drums as lead instrument" style, while at the same time, establishing the deceptively complex rhythmic structure of the song. It's such a seamlessly constructed song that you don't even realize the time changes going on unless you pay attention. The guitar solo is simple, short, and sweet, and kicks off an incredible vocal climax. But it's not the indivudual parts that make Surrounded great, it's how well absolutely everything meshes together to create a concise and beautiful, yet hard-hitting, masterpiece.



12. Sacrificed Sons (Octavarium)
Who would wish this on our people?
And proclaim that His will be done?


Sacrificed Sons is the much neglected yet more talented younger brother of Octavarium, and the best song on the album. The orchestra is used even better here than on the tile track, with delicate parts in the first verse which sound like just a single violin (I love how that bit quivers on the studio version), only to come back with overpowering strength as everything, huge horns and all, take over. That main instrumental melody, the one which repeats after each chorus, each time bigger than the last, is one of the most incredible symphonic things Dream Theater has ever done, easily rivaling anything in the title track, and gives the song a level of sheer power unmatched anywhere else. By the end, the orchestrations have developed a fast paced, hard hitting edge,

I think it's appropriate that the song captures a bunch of emotions under one roof; as the sample at the beginning says, "awe, amazement, shock, grief, and anger." It works well in the sense that one thought leads to another, and a very different state of mind, and the song seems to follow this thread. Musically, it's pulled off very well, with well paced build ups rather than abrupt transitions, and enough unifying themes to tie the whole song together. I love how the music under each verse is a very logical progression on the same part, but moves from feeling like an orchestral, emotional ballad to an angry, upbeat rocker by the third appearance of the theme.

The song is peppered with other highlights. Beautiful emotional singing by James every step of the way, with killer lyrics. The simple but powerful piano and drum fill that kicks things off. The ever-present bass groove in the instrumental section. The incredibly proggy riff that carries the instrumental for the first half, well into the key solo. The way things never quite die down after the instrumental. The hard-hitting, full band/orchestra preview of the outro near the end of the instrumental, and the off-the-wall variations thrown on top. The drum fill to close out the instrumental. The way the horns soar over the final chorus. The outro's use of all the best themes from the instrumental, with some unhinged drumming to go along with it. I could go on. But what makes this song great for me is the way that it uses the full power of the Orchestra, with brilliant arrangements that work alongside the band and give this song a full bodied symphonic feel to it, which also makes it an absolute killer live.


11. The Great Debate (Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence)
Turn to the light
Don't be frightened of the shadows it creates


This song seems very polarizing, with people either not liking it at all or absolutely loving it. I'm with the latter. The Great Debate is a masterpiece on so many different levels. It is perhaps Mike Portnoy's very finest performance with the band. From the intro build up, to the contrasting first and second verse beats, to the mid song breakdown, to the pre-chorus double bass, he puts on a display of technical prowess mixed with raw creativity that in my opinion he never matched after Six Degrees, though ITPOE and a few other pieces came close. Everyone is just on fire in this piece though, and the result is an incredibly multi-layered virtuoso piece and one of Dream Theater's very greatest works.

The intro has a haunting quality to it, with subtley complex keys, rumbling and very visible bass, beautiful volume petal guitar, and a constantly evolving drum groove. I love how the section maintains most of the themes that carried the intro even after the full band explosion for a little bit, but the stuff that comes next is even better. Badass riffing with snarling keys that echo in your ears, and an ever-proggy drum part. As they finally start at this point, this is a good time to mention the lyrics, which are great. They succinctly and effectively portray how each side of the debate has a legitimate argument for being the moral high ground, without picking sides, giving the "turn to the light" line an ambiguous and powerful quality. As the vocals continue, the song creates one of the greatest combination of nearly all of Dream Theater's elements. For the life of me, I could not classify this song as mostly being "heavy," "melodic," or "proggy," it doesn't even have specific sections which envoke one over the others. It's simply "awesome."

One part of the song deserves special mention, and that is the mid song breakdown after "but have we gone too far?" Opening with a powerful drum beat, soaring chords, and buzzing keys, we get a sinister-feeling build up to one of the grooviest sections Dream Theater has ever done. Mike Portnoy leads the way with an unbelievably satisfying galloping drum beat, as vocals and single guitar notes sail overhead. Then, just when you thought the part couldn't get any more groovy, BOOM, a splash polyrhythm gets thrown on top of the drums. Incredible. And to top it off, we explode back to full strength, as James leads the charge with "MIRACLE POTENTIAL." This short vocal section is followed by incredible drum and guitar build up, and the return of "turn to the light," but this time over a more minimalist, yet still insanely proggy bit, with drums again front and center. The solos that follow are both great as well, and their length and placement in the song helps them serve as icing on the cake, rather than trying to steal the show as many Dream Theater instrumentals seem to. In a way, they don't even feel like solos, as every bit of this song has been a virtuoso display. The second key solo in particular, and the brief unison afterwords, in particular are very good, especially the choir section. The unison leads perfectly into the outro, which ends the song as it began, and makes me want to go back to the start and hear it again and again.




Just the top 10 left now. With nearly all of the conventional picks long gone, any predictions?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 06:44:16 AM by JoeG »

Offline aprilethereal

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I'm not too big on Surrounded and TGD, but ranking SS that high deserves a big :tup

Offline ?

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I wouldn't rank SS nearly that high, but Surrounded and TGD are incredible.

Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs-Ten songs le
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2013, 07:48:32 AM »
I wouldn't rank SS nearly that high, but Surrounded and TGD are incredible.

Offline Ruba

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs-Ten songs left
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2013, 11:23:52 AM »
I agree with the two gentlemen above.

Sacrificed Sons is excellent, if not counting the solo section, which feels like a whole different song. The song would flow much better without it.

Offline 425

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs-Ten songs left
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2013, 01:07:44 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't rank The Great Debate that high (though it is quite good), but Surrounded and Sacrificed Sons definitely deserve it.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline nicmos

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs-Ten songs left
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2013, 01:59:47 PM »
great writeup of Great Debate!  wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.  that sinister section after "have we gone too far" might be my favorite in the whole song.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: JoeG's Ramblings About Zero Hits and 50 Other Pretty Cool Songs-Ten songs left
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2013, 02:29:29 PM »
Stop making such great write-ups! You're making me feel inferior. :P