My thoughts on 'Dream Theater' (***SPOILERS***)

[Orthogonal]

Wish JM would write more lyrics. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but the songs he writes lyrics too tend to be better than the average DT tune.

[eviljust]

Wish JM would write more lyrics. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but the songs he writes lyrics too tend to be better than the average DT tune.

I don't think it's a coincidence. I really see your point and agree with you. Probably JM's lyrics need a more thoughtful songwriting, 'cuz of their structure. I'm just guessing.
I'll be happy if we'll have some nice lyrics, ADTOE average was fine, would like to see something more captivating. TEI was good in that perspective, IMO.

[noxon]

I remember an online chat i moderated with Jordan back in 2003;
"8:47:39 PM: Animated: Hey Jordan, I have a question I've been asking myself ever since you joined Dream Theater. Will you ever contribute lyrically on a DT album? If not, is it because the band won't let you or are you simply not interested in writing lyrics?
8:48:16 PM: JordanR: I have an interest in writing lyrics
8:48:22 PM: JordanR: It's an interesting thing actually
8:48:53 PM: JordanR: I feel that the band is very established in there ways and that would be a very new elelment so I do not feel an urgent need to bring lyrics in
8:49:17 PM: JordanR: One day I might write some though and just try my luck with the DT police and see if they like them!!"


With regards to Surrender to Reason being a JMX song - I was absolutely certain it was JP lyrics... I didn't think JMX was this preachy...

[ariich]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

[nikatapi]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

Yeah it would be also interesting to see the vocal melodies he could come up with.

[Dtman2112]

I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"...

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"...

.........and?

[noxon]

Not sure if serious...

[emtee]

I talk to the wind and it tells me to cover songs on my album.


Noxon...you can unleash your review on us in 4 days. Looking forward to reading it.

[Mosh]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?

[Tom Bombadil]

I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"...

So basically he likes King Crimson a lot?

[Zydar]

I don't know about Jordan writing DT lyrics... I have one of his albums where he sings something like "I talk to the wind, but the wind does not hear"...

You mean the King Crimson song I Talk To The Wind?

[aprilethereal]

[Podaar]

Shurley there musht be shome mishtake. I think we should be told.

[thosava]

I was hoping there was one JMX song, one JLB song, and that IT was written by JP/JMX/JLB...Hopefully all the JP lyrics are good!

[noxon]

the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...

[eviljust]

the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...

Well that's a really good news for me

[Flacracker]

the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...

So pretty good? I'm not sure how you feel about them but I think they describe PTSD pretty well and are not cheesy.

[aprilethereal]

the enemy inside is a very good representation of the lyrics on the album...

So pretty good? I'm not sure how you feel about them but I think they describe PTSD pretty well and are not cheesy.

Agreed. ADTOE was already a huge step forward (or back actually) in terms of lyrics, and I really enjoy the TEI lyrics as well.

[wolven74]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?

Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.

[PROGdrummer]

JLB songs are my favorite

[ToT-147]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?

Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.

Kip Winger - vocals on "Beyond Tomorrow" and "Tear Before the Rain"..

James confirmed in his recent interview that he decided to step back from the lyric-writing job for this album because of his heavy involvement with writing the words for his studio album.

You mean lyric writing or lyrics and writing (composing)?.. 'Cause that would be a little disappointment.. It was great he was contributing to LNF, BMUBMD and FFH...

[aprilethereal]

He wrote lyric-writing, so I guess he means lyric-writing.

[wasteland]

@ToT: he specified that despite stepping down from his lyricist role he was throughout very involved musically in the making of the CD (I would guess > or = his level of musical involvement in ADTOE).

[ToT-147]

He wrote lyric-writing, so I guess he means lyric-writing.

Well, in my country "-" between words means "and".. Also "/"... But all is ambiguos.. That's why I was asking..

[ariich]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?

Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.

On the album itself, yeah, but I think the alt mixes were indeed JR, can't remember though.

[robwebster]

"8:47:39 PM: Animated: Hey Jordan, I have a question I've been asking myself ever since you joined Dream Theater. Will you ever contribute lyrically on a DT album? If not, is it because the band won't let you or are you simply not interested in writing lyrics?
8:48:16 PM: JordanR: I have an interest in writing lyrics
8:48:22 PM: JordanR: It's an interesting thing actually
8:48:53 PM: JordanR: I feel that the band is very established in there ways and that would be a very new elelment so I do not feel an urgent need to bring lyrics in
8:49:17 PM: JordanR: One day I might write some though and just try my luck with the DT police and see if they like them!!"

This is incredibly irresponsible of me... but "DT police" was such a curiously familiar phrase, so I googled it. And it's one he used during the ADToE sessions. I didn't realise it went back as far as 2003.

[wasteland]

Ah, I think I remember the circumstances. Remember those days when we had absolutely no firm idea of what would come out? The writing days in early '11!

[Daso]

But who would JR ask permission to now? I think that back in '03 the struggle (if any) would've been with MP, but he's no longer in the band. I don't think JP would say "no" to another member of the band writing lyrics, since that brings up something new to the band and takes some work off his shoulders.

[Mosh]

I would really love to see some JR lyrics in DT. I know he hasn't written much in the way of lyrics, but his lyrics on Rhythm of  Time were nice, and especially on Tear Before the Rain.

I just discovered this album, had no idea he ever wrote lyrics. Is that him singing on the alt mixes of Beyond Tomorrow and Tear Before The Rain?

Not sure about Beyond Tomorrow, but Tear Before the Rain was Kip Winger.

On the album itself, yeah, but I think the alt mixes were indeed JR, can't remember though.

Yea I meant the alt mixes, not the actual album. The alt mixes are definitely not Kip Winger.

I don't even think MP would turn down JR lyrics if he decided to step up to the plate. He's probably happy to take a backseat with that stuff.

[425]

I'm willing to speculate that the door is open for Jordan or Mike Mangini to write lyrics if ever they submit any and they are seen as being good by the rest of the band. This is supported by the fact that in the interview where JLB said he did not write any lyrics, he also quotes John Petrucci as saying "you got to write a couple, man!" This is encouraging to me about the lyrics situation in Petrucci-led DT, because it seems like though JP seems to really enjoy writing lyrics, he has nothing against the other members of the band also writing some and in fact encouraged James having more of a voice in the lyrics.

I also will speculate, though, that we are unlikely to see a JR or MM lyrical contribution. It's possible, but I think Jordan would have gone for it by now if he was going to, and while Mike could, I suppose, he hasn't really mentioned anything about having an interest in it. I think for the foreseeable future, the vast majority of lyrics will continue to be Petrucci's with one song per album by Myung and one or two on most albums from LaBrie.

[Lucien]

I'm willing to speculate that the door is open for Jordan or Mike Mangini to write lyrics if ever they submit any and they are seen as being good by the rest of the band. This is supported by the fact that in the interview where JLB said he did not write any lyrics, he also quotes John Petrucci as saying "you got to write a couple, man!" This is encouraging to me about the lyrics situation in Petrucci-led DT, because it seems like though JP seems to really enjoy writing lyrics, he has nothing against the other members of the band also writing some and in fact encouraged James having more of a voice in the lyrics.

I also will speculate, though, that we are unlikely to see a JR or MM lyrical contribution. It's possible, but I think Jordan would have gone for it by now if he was going to, and while Mike could, I suppose, he hasn't really mentioned anything about having an interest in it. I think for the foreseeable future, the vast majority of lyrics will continue to be Petrucci's with one song per album by Myung and one or two on most albums from LaBrie.

Always be prepared for surprises though 

[BlobVanDam]

But who would JR ask permission to now? I think that back in '03 the struggle (if any) would've been with MP, but he's no longer in the band. I don't think JP would say "no" to another member of the band writing lyrics, since that brings up something new to the band and takes some work off his shoulders.

I don't think there would be any struggle, with MP or anyone else. If they needed to ask permission, it would have been MP/JP as the producers, and now it would be just JP, but I think it would be open enough that if someone said "hey, can I write lyrics for this one?" it wouldn't be an issue.

The only condition we've ever heard about as far as lyrics go is with JM not writing completed lyrics/melodies by himself, which was fair enough, and so far it seems that still hasn't really changed, they've just decided that JP would help bring them up to that finalized level (and I assume is probably still the case with DT12), which is a nice middle ground.

But with JP now being the primary producer and lyrics writer, I think he'd be more than happy to share that load between a few other people.

From the JR solo albums I have, I really like his lyrics, and would like him to write some in future. I always liked the whole band effort with DT writing lyrics, with JP/MP/KM/JLB/JM/CD all contributing lyrics at some point. With DT albums in the past, I've been able to figure out exactly who wrote each lyric, because they all have their own recognizable style, and I enjoy that diversity.

[425]

I definitely agree that it would be far more fun if the whole band was writing lyrics. I love John Petrucci's lyrics, but one of the more remarkable things I noticed when first listening to albums like Awake was that this was a band that managed to have cohesive albums, and often thematic ones, with a number of different voices. Most bands have a single lyricist or one main lyricist and another occasional contributor, so to me the fact that at one point all five members of the band were writing lyrics was yet another cool and unique thing about Dream Theater. It's not like I'm disappointed that John writes almost all the lyrics now, but I think it would be cool to be able to see the different perspectives that all the members of the band brought to each album. Kind of like how on Awake, Kevin and James dealt with some similar themes in 6:00 and CIAW but handled them in different ways (for example, the 6:00 lyrics are helpless while CIAW's are determined and suggest an active protagonist).

Awake Lyrical Contributions: 40%-30%-10%-10%-10% (John P, Kev, James, John M, Mike)
Dream Theater Lyrical Contributions: 86%-14% (John P, John M)

Just something interesting to think about.

[ToT-147]

Being more inclusive (to get The Bigger Picture), I consider appropriate to show you this data I've made at some point...

 [0 - JP 3, KM 3. (6)]
  1 - JP 3, KM 2, CM 2. (7)                            Petrucci:  57
  2 - JP 3, KM 3, JM 1. (7)                              Portnoy:  21
  3 - JP 4, KM 3, JLB 1, JM 1, MP 1. (10)           LaBrie:   10
  4 - JP 5, MP 3, JLB 1, JM 1. (10)                   Moore:     8
  5 - JP 5, MP 3, JLB 1, JM 1. (10)                   Myung:     6
  6 - JP 6, MP 4, JLB 2. (12)                           Dominici:   2
  7 - JP 3, MP 2, JLB 1. (6)
  8 - JP 6, MP 4, JLB 2. (12)
  9 - JP 5, MP 2, JLB 1. (8)
 10 - JP 4, MP 2. (6)
 11 - JP 7, JLB 1, JM 1. (9)
 12 - JP 6, JM 1 (7)

They really need more diversity like in the past, I agree.. But I don't think JR or MM will be contributing to write any lyrics..