Music taste and intelligence

[FourthHorseman]

This is something I've always wondered.. Do you think people that are more intelligent like music that is more complex/artistic? In my experience, the people I know that listen to more complex and technical genres such as Prog, Classical, Jazz, etc. are usually smarter than people that listen to Hip Hop, Pop, and Country music. However the people I know are probably not an accurate sample of the population. This is old news, but a grad student from CIT did a survey a few years ago and compared music tastes to SAT scores:

https://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/10/unscientific_study_finds_count.html

What do you think, DTF?

[Dark Castle]

Well, I think it's absolute trite.

I listen to Classical/Metal/Pop/HipHop/Electronic, hell I run the entire god damned gambut of music, and I know people who only listen to Pop and Hip Hop and they're incredibly smart people.

Your tastes in music don't define your intelligence.

[Mosh]

Your tastes in music don't define your intelligence.

Yup.

Honestly, I get annoyed when people think the two go hand in hand. It comes off as pretentious and frankly, rude. I've seen incredibly smart people who only listen to whatever is on the radio and I've seen prog fans who are absolute idiots. Hell, some of them troll forums like this.

[TioJorge]

I don't think such a correlation could be made, but I'm more than sure that with enough (accurate) information and statistics, someone could come up with some kind of correlation, but as DC said, it'd be trite and inconsequential. Then again, I'm not the brightest crayon in the box so... I'll leave that to minds better fit than mine. Plus, to me anyway, it's a slap in the face to the people who make the music.

[theseoafs]

Your tastes in music don't define your intelligence.

Yup.

Honestly, I get annoyed when people think the two go hand in hand. It comes off as pretentious and frankly, rude.

This.  If you like a certain type of music, good for you.  You don't like that music because you're smarter than anyone else.

[FourthHorseman]

I agree that your music taste doesn't define your intelligence, but I do think smarter people are more likely to listen to complex music. That's obviously not the case for everyone, I know really smart people that listen to rap and country music. 

I think sometimes I'm just looking for an explanation as to why people listen to the crap they listen to, because I just don't get it.

[Dr. DTVT]

For the last 10 years I've worked almost exclusively with Ph.D. level people.  Of the 200+ people I worked with, I've only worked with two others who were metal heads and a few jazz people.  We seem to be in the minority at higher education as well.

I would say there might be a correlation between liking them and MUSICAL education.  That is more plausible, particularly for jazz it seems.

[Mosh]

I think sometimes I'm just looking for an explanation as to why people listen to the crap they listen to, because I just don't get it.

Different tastes. It's a wonderful thing.

I would say there might be a correlation between liking them and MUSICAL education.  That is more plausible, particularly for jazz it seems.

Was just going to mention this. Most (if not all) prog and jazz fans that I know IRL are also musicians, so there could be something to that. At the same time, most pop songwriters are also musically educated. Those songs are hits for a reason, these people know what they're doing.

[FourthHorseman]

I think sometimes I'm just looking for an explanation as to why people listen to the crap they listen to, because I just don't get it.

Different tastes. It's a wonderful thing.

That cannot explain this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6j4f8cHBIM

 

[Mosh]

Sure it can. People like different things, if they get off on that song then who are you to question them?

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think there's any direct correlation at all, and I think it's a pretentious concept.
I think musical tastes are largely a societal/cultural thing if anything, and in some instances these classes may have some very broad connection with intelligence, but I think even that is stretching it.

[TioJorge]

I think it'd be much more accurate to say that people who listen to certain genres have a tendency to think they're more intelligent than others.

[Bolsters]

I think it'd be much more accurate to say that people who listen to certain genres have a tendency to think they're more intelligent than others.

[FourthHorseman]

I think it'd be much more accurate to say that people who listen to certain genres have a tendency to think they're more intelligent than others.

If this is directed at me... I do not think I am of above average intelligence because I listen to Prog/Metal/Alternative/Classical, I think I am of above average intelligence because it has been documented in test scores/academic performance.  Not trying to come off as arrogant or elitist, but I'm not going to put my self in the default "average" category if that is not the case.  Whether or not test scores are an accurate measure of intelligence, rather than education, is a whole other debate in which I can appreciate both arguments.

Anyway.. I can appreciate others' taste in music i.e. Blues, Jazz, Funk, Soul, Reggae, etc, but I do think that more "intelligent" people are more likely to listen to more complex and/or artistic genres than less intelligent people.  It's not a rule, it's not cause-and-effect, but a simple correlation I believe to exist based on my (biased) experiences with music.

I think many differences in music taste can be attributed to cultural phenomenon. In example, if we assume that the average Lil Wayne listener has a lower "intelligence" than the average Bach enthusiast, it perhaps could be at least partly explained by socioeconomic barriers than the average Lil Wayne has to get through. Keep in mind I'm saying average.. not all.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think one's taste in music might define their musicality though. I know a lot of my favorite artists had extremely eclectic musical tastes, so they'd listen to all sorts of music, not just the style that they're playing, and I think they're better for it. Even some rappers I like, have publicly talked about listening to all sorts of Rock music, and even used samples of it in their own music. So I think a real artist can't just barricade himself within a single genre.

So in that respect, they can be musically more intelligent. Or more knowledgeable, unlike people with one dimensional tastes who'll be like, "Yeah, I like this. Fuck those other styles. That stuff sucks."

[userx]

my take on this:

there are at two ways that we can enjoy a piece of music:
1. emotional
2. analytic/rational

1. emotional refers to how we feel immediately upon hearing a piece of music (e.g if a song is catchy we immediately feel an emotional string plucked inside us, or the melody is beautiful, or the lyrics speak to us on an emotional level, or the beat makes us wanna snap our fingers
this type of listening is predominant and it encompasses all superficial=emotional reaction listeners, dancers etc but also nitpicky people like us. we, prog fans or other complex music listeners share this emotional level with all people but what differentiates us from others is

2. analytic/rational is that we tend to invest more time and energy into our music for whichever reason that might be. we get a kick out of emotional aspect but while most people are satisfied with that, we are not. we search for intricacies, technicalities and all other things that make a song more saturated with listening items that makes for a longer enjoyment and more mentally/rationally challenging listening. we like a balance between emotion and ratio

that being said, there is no way you can tell who is more inteligent because an inteligent  emotional listener might not be that much interested in music because they have other areas of interest where their inteligence sparkles and they have no need to analyze music. on the other hand, there's no guarantee that analytic people are inteligent because they might be music anlytic "freaks" where they might lack in general intelligence or they might not be so analytical as they think and they listen to prog/classical for the emotional kick not rational. and i think that genuine intellectual curiosity/creativity is what counts with these people

if I may be biased towards pleasing my ego, I might say that intelligent awareness of the two might signal a wise and intelligent person

[TioJorge]

My comment was directed at the masses who listen to said genre (I admit, I had progressive-rock and its associates in mind); a blanket statement. You didn't even cross my mind, Fourth.

If I may clarify, while I certainly had this forum in mind (along with a few others), I had no users specifically in mind. That said, when I think on it, I do believe many people here to be above intelligence and a certain few to be highly intelligent, creative minds. Of course, as in every community, there are the doofuses and downright dummies; let's face it, somebody's gotta be the dunce. I am personally more than happy to fill said role.  One of them. 

My main point is that most people will see themselves as more intelligent than they actually are, especially if a group mentality forms (fans of a genre) and we have other groups (FUCK YOU COUNTRY) to compete with...

[FourthHorseman]

I'm sorry, I can get defensive sometimes 

And that's an interesting take userx. I think you can explain emotional appeal in music through rational means also, a very basic example being: When the music plays a Major V chord, and resolves to the I chord (a "perfect cadence"), the listener feels much more satisfied. I dunno.

[Zantera]

Nah, I don't think the two go together. I've encountered many people who are not that intelligent who listen to prog, just like I have met many people who are not intelligent that listens to other forms of music. There's intelligent people and there's stupid people, but the music-taste is not a factor or anything.

[userx]

I'm sorry, I can get defensive sometimes 

And that's an interesting take userx. I think you can explain emotional appeal in music through rational means also, a very basic example being: When the music plays a Major V chord, and resolves to the I chord (a "perfect cadence"), the listener feels much more satisfied. I dunno.

Yes, I agree it can be explained but that doesn't take away from the fact that it strikes an emotional chord, whereas some rational aspect might be the drum pattern for example. one purely emotional listener might not notice that not one single measure has the same beat throughout the song which is "popish" on the surface but an analytic listener will enjoy the melody as well as the complex drum beat. e.g Rush post-Hemispheres = many simple sounding pop-rock songs with complex bass and drum parts. you can enjoy it in its simplicity but for a more demanding listener in its complexity as well

[Cruithne]

Back when I was at school the class of about 13 people I was a part of was crammed full of incredibly smart people and there was no absolutely no correlation between the relative intelligence of the individuals and their music tastes.

One of the two/three brightest of the lot listened to the some of the most brain-atrophying inane dance music you could find at the time. Probably about a 1/4 of the class listened to rock/metal, of which I was one and I was one of the least smart in that class...

Based on anecdotal experience I'd say that kids who're brought up learning a classical instrument tend towards listening to relatively complex music later in life and there probably is a correlation between the background/education/intelligence of people who have the access to and the parental "support" to do so.

Whilst I think there is some merit in the notion that you don't choose your music taste, your music taste chooses you, peer groups, society and life experience all play a part in the taste you tend towards.

In short: correlation != causation.

[ariich]

Well, I think it's absolute trite.

I listen to Classical/Metal/Pop/HipHop/Electronic, hell I run the entire god damned gambut of music, and I know people who only listen to Pop and Hip Hop and they're incredibly smart people.

Your tastes in music don't define your intelligence.

All of this.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were indeed trends among genres, or particular artists, etc. But that's more a social construct of what is popular in different groups, rather than any link between the taste and the intelligence of the person.

Also, I hate to have to point it out, but academic success =/= intelligence.

[Phoenix87x]

Well, I'm a huge fan of Hip hop and pop music and I'm currently going to school to be a Doctor so...



and this I agree with 100 Percent:

Well, I think it's absolute trite.

I listen to Classical/Metal/Pop/HipHop/Electronic, hell I run the entire god damned gambut of music, and I know people who only listen to Pop and Hip Hop and they're incredibly smart people.

Your tastes in music don't define your intelligence.

[Ben_Jamin]

I hate to break it to you. But most "intelligent" fans of music are not accepting of music as music. They have a high standard of what music should sound like they forget music isn't held to any standards. Music is music, and I would love an album where all different types of styles are represented.

I am amazed at how much flak Hip-hop gets from the supposed music "fans".

[Super Dude]

Absolutely not. I'm here at a prestigious law school with some of the smartest people I've ever met, and most of them listen to music you would have ascribed to morons - rap and country. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; I've been trying to break into rap for a long time myself.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I like classical music.....therefor me inteliggencce!   

[Super Dude]

I like classical music.....therefor me inteliggencce!   

[PuffyPat]

What's with all this "I know smart people who listen to HIP-HOP" like it's some kind of taboo or something that should be looked down on? Sure, there is a lot of rap and hip-hop out there that is just mindless crap, but all genres have that kind of stuff. However, like other genres, there is some really well done hip-hop out there as well. For example, Kendrick Lamar's "good kid, m.A.A.d city" is one of the best albums I've ever heard. It's extremely well put together and is just mind blowing. Kanye's "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" is another example of an extremely well thought out record, and not just a bunch of narcissism and misogyny.

/rant

HIP-HOP IS GOOD.

[Dellers]

I think that (and no, I don't have anything to back this up with) intelligent people are less likely to follow the wind wherever it blows, but I don't really think it has anything to do with actual taste. If a stupid person's friends all listen to prog chances are the stupid one will also listen to it.

Also, I hate to have to point it out, but academic success =/= intelligence.

Absolutely. I know some non intelligent people who have done pretty well in universities and such only because they have good memory. I'm a relatively rational person who is always thinking things through, but I wouldn't even dream of getting an academic grade since my memory is awful and academic books are so boring that I can't seem to focus on them.

[Ben_Jamin]

Absolutely not. I'm here at a prestigious law school with some of the smartest people I've ever met, and most of them listen to music you would have ascribed to morons - rap and country. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that; I've been trying to break into rap for a long time myself.

I honestly don't call that music rap. Rap is a style like Djent is a tone. Its called Hip-Hop.

Also, I hate when people dismiss music because its catchy, simple, and straightfoward. Why can't a song, by a technical band, be simple. DT's newest single is a good example. 

[Ben_Jamin]

What's with all this "I know smart people who listen to HIP-HOP" like it's some kind of taboo or something that should be looked down on? Sure, there is a lot of rap and hip-hop out there that is just mindless crap, but all genres have that kind of stuff. However, like other genres, there is some really well done hip-hop out there as well. For example, Kendrick Lamar's "good kid, m.A.A.d city" is one of the best albums I've ever heard. It's extremely well put together and is just mind blowing. Kanye's "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" is another example of an extremely well thought out record, and not just a bunch of narcissism and misogyny.

/rant

HIP-HOP IS GOOD.

Talib Kweli, Jedi Mind Tricks, Immortal Technique, K'Naan, Mos Def...

Theirs many artists in the Hip-Hop and R&B genres that I consider better songwriters than many famous Prog bands.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I like classical music.....therefor me inteliggencce!   

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

*EDIT*

I had a whole post typed out, centered around the use of the word "pretentious" and the delicious irony of its use on a prog board, but then I thought better of it, and decided to just stick with the OP topic.  I can see where this idea might make some sense, but ultimately, I don't think it works.  I was trying to think of ANY parallel comparison I could make here, something like "Rich people have more money, so they tend to like more expensive things, as opposed to poor people who settle for cheap stuff".  But even then, I don't think that's exactly apples to apples.  Either way, the premise makes sense from a logical perspective (intelligent tends towards complex music), but when you try to actually apply it in the real world, it falls flat.

[?]

I've always been good at school and maybe a bit of a nerd compared to most people and my tastes aren't very mainstream, but I also know of some people in my area who are really smart and they listen to basic pop/rock, so I can't see any correlation between intelligence and musical tastes. However, I think that if you play some instrument you may be more likely to enjoy really complex and technical music than those who don't have musical education.

[Jaq]

I have a pretty high IQ, am well educated and very well read, so here's my take on this notion.

It's bullshit. Pure, pretentious bullshit.