Author Topic: The n-word and its use  (Read 7715 times)

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Offline vtgrad

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #175 on: June 01, 2018, 02:05:28 PM »
This is getting out of control.  I don't agree with Samantha Bee using that word.

But it is interesting to me that Ted Nugent can call Hillary the same word and be cordially invited to The White House.

One wonders where this will all end.   :justjen

Personally, I don't think it ever will end.  As long as someone is offended by a word (vowel and consonant sounds), someone else will use it as an offense... and someone else will be "OK" with certain people using the word and "not OK" with certain people using the word.  I guess it's up to us to make up our own minds about what we (spoken in the collective) will let offend us and what we won't... what we will consider fightn' words and what we will let run off our backs as the opinions or idiocies of someone else.

Our culture and our news/entertainment providers will reflect and feed on each other always I think (creating a loop); they're simply giving us what they think we want to see.  I don't understand why Rosanne is cancelled (not taking her part, just making a point), yet S. Bee can throw that term out and keep her show while Nugent is invited to the White House after using the same term... and I don't think we're (again used in the collective) meant to understand it.  We're just meant to absorb it into our culture and argue about who should be fired and who shouldn't... when that's not really the issue.  Maybe the issue is why do we try to hurt each other in the first place?  Or perhaps why do we let words take us to this point to begin with and give the people using these words the attention they're trying to amass and reward them by flooding the media with these stories?



"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now with Twitler taking a high end steak of this caliber and insulting the cow that died for it by having it well done just shows zero respect for the product, which falls right in line with the amount of respect he shows for pretty much everything else.- Lonestar

Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #176 on: June 01, 2018, 02:09:53 PM »
We're just meant to absorb it into our culture and argue about who should be fired and who shouldn't... when that's not really the issue.  Maybe the issue is why do we try to hurt each other in the first place?

Or perhaps they are BOTH issues worthy of discussion?  The importance of one doesn't necessarily disqualify the importance of the other.
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Offline vtgrad

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #177 on: June 01, 2018, 02:28:19 PM »
We're just meant to absorb it into our culture and argue about who should be fired and who shouldn't... when that's not really the issue.  Maybe the issue is why do we try to hurt each other in the first place?

Or perhaps they are BOTH issues worthy of discussion?  The importance of one doesn't necessarily disqualify the importance of the other.

That's an equitable point.  Maybe a better way for me to phrase it would be for us (the collective society) to try and tackle the issue of the root-cause (hurting each other in the first place) with as much fervor and energy with which we attack the symptoms of that root-cause.  Again, I'm not speaking specifically of DTF, I'm speaking of our society in general (the collective I mentioned earlier).
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now with Twitler taking a high end steak of this caliber and insulting the cow that died for it by having it well done just shows zero respect for the product, which falls right in line with the amount of respect he shows for pretty much everything else.- Lonestar

Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #178 on: June 01, 2018, 02:57:04 PM »
Oh, I know.  And I agree with you.  I'm just not sure what we do about it, other than each of us individually trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #179 on: June 03, 2018, 09:00:46 PM »
My 13-year old nephew recently said to me how he finds a bit how confusing how the n-word is supposed to be so wrong, yet a bunch of black kids at his school say it.  One black kid and he are friendly and the kid occasionally refers to my nephew as "my n-word" (with the -a at the end, not -er) in a friendly way.  I said to him, "Don't ever say that back to him or think it is okay to say that word to anyone."  He asked why it was okay for some to say it and not okay for others, and I said, "I don't have a good answer for that, but just never say it."  He said he wouldn't and I believe him.  He is a great kid.  :coolio

Offline Chino

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #180 on: June 04, 2018, 06:15:37 AM »
My 13-year old nephew recently said to me how he finds a bit how confusing how the n-word is supposed to be so wrong, yet a bunch of black kids at his school say it.  One black kid and he are friendly and the kid occasionally refers to my nephew as "my n-word" (with the -a at the end, not -er) in a friendly way.  I said to him, "Don't ever say that back to him or think it is okay to say that word to anyone."  He asked why it was okay for some to say it and not okay for others, and I said, "I don't have a good answer for that, but just never say it."  He said he wouldn't and I believe him.  He is a great kid.  :coolio


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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #181 on: June 04, 2018, 07:56:33 AM »
One, I've been saying this - about "hurting others" for a while now.   It's baffling to me how so many see these shootings and latch onto guns; I may say it more kindly in person, but I make no bones about the fact that I think the people that see these shootings and immediately jump to "gun control" are either opportunists at worst, or misguided and simply not doing the homework at best.    For me, the real point in all that is how we've cultivated a group of kids - human beings that supposedly are learning OUR morals and OUR values - that have such ease in KILLING - in cold blood - their friends, classmates and peers.   We talk a lot about how "easy" it is kill with a gun, but frankly, I don't see how it's "easy" to kill at all.  Whether it's a close-up knife to the throat or a bullet at 10 yards (school shootings are not exactly long-range target contests; that last kid used a shotgun which is useless beyond say 40 yards with someone who knows what they're doing, perhaps 20 if you don't) you still have to look at these people in the eye and watch them suffer.  I cry when I hit a squirrel in the street.  I can't imagine watching the life flow out of someone I've perhaps known for 10 or more years.   

Observation:  if the "intent" matters, as so many say it does (and I don't believe at this point) why does "-a" and "-er" make a difference?   Why is that somehow a magic bullet that allows (some) to use the word and others not?

Offline vtgrad

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #182 on: June 04, 2018, 01:24:14 PM »
Oh, I know.  And I agree with you.  I'm just not sure what we do about it, other than each of us individually trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can.

Other than what you just wrote, I don't know of any other way.   I don't know what to do about it less a fundamental change at the root of all of us.

My 13-year old nephew recently said to me how he finds a bit how confusing how the n-word is supposed to be so wrong, yet a bunch of black kids at his school say it.  One black kid and he are friendly and the kid occasionally refers to my nephew as "my n-word" (with the -a at the end, not -er) in a friendly way. 

I didn't grow up rough at all, but I hung out with some very good friends who did (friends that I still have to this day); they were of differing races all but we bonded over basketball and then 6 of us became very, very close friends... as in going to family funerals close.  Not sure that happens much these days with the early and mid teens (don't know because I'm not a father).

Anyway, the three gentlemen of our group that are black always called all of us "my n-with an a"... and one of those men still to this day will call me that when I see him.  It's a term of love and respect between us all... and growing up I did see a distinction between "n with an a" and "n with an er".

Playing ball in a rough neighborhood (where the best games always were anyway) on one fine August afternoon, I personally was approached by an older guy (mid 20s probably; I was 14) who accused me of exposing myself to his sister (which of course I did NOT do)... he wasn't having my denials and was starting to try and grab me.  To my amazement (still amazing when I think about it), all 9 of the guys on the court with me had my back and proceeded to beat this guy to a pulp.  He didn't really help himself any during the beat-down by calling all of the guys "n with an er".... seemed to make everyone a bit more upset.

Two older men come out of the apartment complex and break up the fight (more amazing still that we didn't get in trouble with the law) and one of my black friends told the men that "I had to take up for my n-with an a"; mid-20s that got his a$$ handed to him didn't understand why it was OK for my friend to refer to me with that word as it was one of the reasons given to the older men for the beat-down in the first place (dude was screaming it at the top of his lungs... he's honestly lucky that one of those two men didn't finish the job my friends started).  My friend said "I'm using it with love, you're using it with hate".  It's all in the context I guess.

Honestly, it's nice to hear that about your nephew... that's nothing but a good thing in my eyes!  Though I think your advice was right.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 01:39:53 PM by vtgrad »
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now with Twitler taking a high end steak of this caliber and insulting the cow that died for it by having it well done just shows zero respect for the product, which falls right in line with the amount of respect he shows for pretty much everything else.- Lonestar

Offline Stadler

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #183 on: July 12, 2018, 07:40:07 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses. 

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #184 on: July 12, 2018, 07:45:44 AM »
The statement alone isn't terrible, but the following line in the article:

Quote
The call was a role-playing exercise for Schnatter to prevent future public relations fumbles.

Seems like he failed that.  That's a really poor example to use in a conference call even if it wasn't him using the word at someone.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #185 on: July 12, 2018, 07:47:02 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I posted about this at the other place but I don't see any reason why Schnatter had to say that. I don't think there was any reason for him to use it in the context of business or a conference call, there were a thousand other ways for him to make his point. He already caused damage to the company with his statements about NFL protest kneeling, he did it again by dropping the freaking N word in a business setting. I agree the context of his usage is far from the worst thing, but there really wasn't any good reason he should've said that. That + the recent controversy over the NFL does not exactly paint the man in a good light with respect to racial conversation topics. Just because it's true doesn't mean it's sensible to say. People should use their heads.
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Offline Chino

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #186 on: July 12, 2018, 07:54:03 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There's plenty to on hate Papa John about, but this isn't one of them. If I were to say in conversation "One time my roommate in college called a black dude a n***** to his face and got the shit kicked out of him", does that make me a racist? 

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2018, 07:57:58 AM »
All fair points, but sort of off the main one, and that is, whether there are 1 or 1000 other ways to have said it, the fact is that TODAY, he can't - not "SHOULDN'T" but "CAN'T" - say that one.   So we've gotten to the point that the very USE of the word is "offensive" and problematic, and not the intent behind it.   I find that to be disturbing. 

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2018, 07:59:22 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There's plenty to on hate Papa John about, but this isn't one of them. If I were to say in conversation "One time my roommate in college called a black dude a n***** to his face and got the shit kicked out of him", does that make me a racist?

According to the scenario above, yes it does. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #189 on: July 12, 2018, 08:13:33 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I posted about this at the other place but I don't see any reason why Schnatter had to say that. I don't think there was any reason for him to use it in the context of business or a conference call, there were a thousand other ways for him to make his point. He already caused damage to the company with his statements about NFL protest kneeling, he did it again by dropping the freaking N word in a business setting. I agree the context of his usage is far from the worst thing, but there really wasn't any good reason he should've said that. That + the recent controversy over the NFL does not exactly paint the man in a good light with respect to racial conversation topics. Just because it's true doesn't mean it's sensible to say. People should use their heads.

We can argue all day long about whether or not he should have said it, or whether there were 1,000 or 1,000,000 better examples he could have used.  But it really doesn't matter.  What he said was completely benign.  People need to get a grip on the concept of context.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #190 on: July 12, 2018, 08:17:41 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There's plenty to on hate Papa John about, but this isn't one of them. If I were to say in conversation "One time my roommate in college called a black dude a n***** to his face and got the shit kicked out of him", does that make me a racist?

According to the scenario above, yes it does.

No it does not.  What it does say is that Papa John has very bad judgement on what he says, and when he says it.  As Chairman, on a conference call, he used extremely poor judgement in his comments.  He is being forced to resign because he is STUPID.  He may be a racist or he may not be......this incident only proves he is stupid.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #191 on: July 12, 2018, 08:27:08 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There's plenty to on hate Papa John about, but this isn't one of them. If I were to say in conversation "One time my roommate in college called a black dude a n***** to his face and got the shit kicked out of him", does that make me a racist?

According to the scenario above, yes it does.

No it does not.  What it does say is that Papa John has very bad judgement on what he says, and when he says it.  As Chairman, on a conference call, he used extremely poor judgement in his comments.  He is being forced to resign because he is STUPID.  He may be a racist or he may not be......this incident only proves he is stupid.
The uproar wasn't because he was a nitwit or lacked sound judgement. The uproar was because he--gasp--said the N-word! If he'd said he wanted to add smoldering turds as a topping, or offer free pies to every third customer wearing a green tie on odd numbered days during even numbered hours, the whole thing wouldn't have blown up. Chino is correct and context is obsolete in modern America.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #192 on: July 12, 2018, 08:36:37 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/papa-johns-founder-john-schnatter-resigns-as-chairman-of-companys-board-after-apologizing-for-racial-slur/ar-AAzW6Kd?ocid=ientp

Well, I think we've answered our question:  there is NO acceptable use of the "n-word" by white Americans.    Schnatter - admittedly not the brightest bulb on the tree to start with and already in racial hot water - apparently didn't call anyone a "n*****".   He was commenting on some of the PR struggles he and his company had faced, and lamented that "Colonel Sanders called black people 'n******'".   A factual (if true) statement about one man, not a commentary on a particular race.   And yet, he's out, the company is likely to lose a major endorsement (with Major League Baseball) and we all get to feel smug and useful that we "combatted racism!" like bosses.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There's plenty to on hate Papa John about, but this isn't one of them. If I were to say in conversation "One time my roommate in college called a black dude a n***** to his face and got the shit kicked out of him", does that make me a racist?

According to the scenario above, yes it does.

No it does not.  What it does say is that Papa John has very bad judgement on what he says, and when he says it.  As Chairman, on a conference call, he used extremely poor judgement in his comments.  He is being forced to resign because he is STUPID.  He may be a racist or he may not be......this incident only proves he is stupid.
The uproar wasn't because he was a nitwit or lacked sound judgement. The uproar was because he--gasp--said the N-word! If he'd said he wanted to add smoldering turds as a topping, or offer free pies to every third customer wearing a green tie on odd numbered days during even numbered hours, the whole thing wouldn't have blown up. Chino is correct and context is obsolete in modern America.

I respectfully disagree.  Context is exactly why he is resigning.  Due to what happened previously with his comments, coupled with his very public position with the company, he should have exercised better judgement on a public conference call.  It was clear to any intelligent person that his use of that word, regardless of context, would be toxic.  Also, there is some reasonable play in the interpretation in how he used it as well.  I am not intimately familiar with the call, but it seems that it could have been interpreted as excusing or rationalizing his previous use of the word?  Either way, context here IS important.  Is what he said "racist" in a vacuum?  Probably not.  But by using it to, even in a tiny way, to explain/rationalize/excuse the previous use of the word, is VERY poor judgement.  Coupled with the fact that he should have known better in his position....I just see it as him being fired for being STUPID, not racist. 

Take out the word at use here....he would be gone if he used MANY other words, TWICE, as a representative of his brand and company........This would be the same story if he used the word Cunt.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 09:17:47 AM by eric42434224 »
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #193 on: July 12, 2018, 10:33:55 AM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting. In his home, in privacy? Go for it, say it all you want. But he did not have very good judgment using that word no matter how 'polite' he was trying to be with his point... it's very careless.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #194 on: July 12, 2018, 10:44:43 AM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting.

I respectfully disagree.  Unwise?  Sure.  Unacceptable?  No--at least in this context.  If he were indeed using it as a racial slur, then yes.  But he wasn't.  He was clearly using an example of another business using it that way, and using that story to basically have an example of conduct that EVERYONE could easily agree was wrong.  That is perfectly benign.  Again, I'm not saying it was smart.  But I cannot remotely say it was unacceptable.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #195 on: July 12, 2018, 10:50:32 AM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting.

I respectfully disagree.  Unwise?  Sure.  Unacceptable?  No--at least in this context.  If he were indeed using it as a racial slur, then yes.  But he wasn't.  He was clearly using an example of another business using it that way, and using that story to basically have an example of conduct that EVERYONE could easily agree was wrong.  That is perfectly benign.  Again, I'm not saying it was smart.  But I cannot remotely say it was unacceptable.

The conference call was about sensitivity training, and he drops the N-word. So not only does he have poor judgment, he's tone deaf! He's surprised that a guy born in 1890 wasn't publicly lambasted for using the N word? None of this makes sense. Absolutely is unacceptable, doesn't matter that he wasn't using it as a racial slur, again, there's countless other ways for him to make his point. It's extremely poor judgment. But that's my two cents.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #196 on: July 12, 2018, 11:07:20 AM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting.

I respectfully disagree.  Unwise?  Sure.  Unacceptable?  No--at least in this context.  If he were indeed using it as a racial slur, then yes.  But he wasn't.  He was clearly using an example of another business using it that way, and using that story to basically have an example of conduct that EVERYONE could easily agree was wrong.  That is perfectly benign.  Again, I'm not saying it was smart.  But I cannot remotely say it was unacceptable.

The conference call was about sensitivity training, and he drops the N-word. So not only does he have poor judgment, he's tone deaf! He's surprised that a guy born in 1890 wasn't publicly lambasted for using the N word? None of this makes sense. Absolutely is unacceptable, doesn't matter that he wasn't using it as a racial slur, again, there's countless other ways for him to make his point. It's extremely poor judgment. But that's my two cents.

And his reputation is directly tied to the success of the company.  He is not smart enough to realize what he is saying and the damage it causes.  If I were on the Board, I would want him out too.  Take the history of the word out of it....heck take the actual word out of it.  He exhibited behavior detrimental to the company and brand.....then does it again?  100% deserves to be separated from the company.
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Offline sylvan

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #197 on: July 12, 2018, 11:12:51 AM »
Am I the only one who finds it funny that a PRIVATE meeting with a PUBLIC RELATIONS company regarding damage control has become a PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE? All these people are so very professional...

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #198 on: July 12, 2018, 11:15:54 AM »
Am I the only one who finds it funny that a PRIVATE meeting with a PUBLIC RELATIONS company regarding damage control has become a PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE? All these people are so very professional...

What makes you think this was a PRIVATE meeting, with any expectation of privacy?
They were on a conference call with a third party company.  If anyone thinks that saying anything on a conference call with ANYONE is sure to stay private, they should not be running a company.

"On the May call, Schnatter was asked how he would distance himself from racist groups online. He responded by downplaying the significance of his NFL statement. “Colonel Sanders called blacks n-----s,” Schnatter said, before complaining that Sanders never faced public backlash."

And he answered the question that way?  On a call designed as a role-playing exercise for Schnatter in an effort to prevent future public-relations snafus?  LOL.  No wonder he is gone.  How could he be trusted in the public....his reputation is directly tied to the company.  He was a risk, and rightfully let go. 
Racist?  I dont know or care.  Stupid with no self awareness?  Check.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #199 on: July 12, 2018, 11:16:54 AM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting.

I respectfully disagree.  Unwise?  Sure.  Unacceptable?  No--at least in this context.  If he were indeed using it as a racial slur, then yes.  But he wasn't.  He was clearly using an example of another business using it that way, and using that story to basically have an example of conduct that EVERYONE could easily agree was wrong.  That is perfectly benign.  Again, I'm not saying it was smart.  But I cannot remotely say it was unacceptable.

The conference call was about sensitivity training, and he drops the N-word. So not only does he have poor judgment, he's tone deaf! He's surprised that a guy born in 1890 wasn't publicly lambasted for using the N word? None of this makes sense. Absolutely is unacceptable, doesn't matter that he wasn't using it as a racial slur, again, there's countless other ways for him to make his point. It's extremely poor judgment. But that's my two cents.

And his reputation is directly tied to the success of the company.  He is not smart enough to realize what he is saying and the damage it causes.  If I were on the Board, I would want him out too.  Take the history of the word out of it....heck take the actual word out of it.  He exhibited behavior detrimental to the company and brand.....then does it again?  100% deserves to be separated from the company.

Yeah, that's about where I'm at on this issue, too.
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Offline sylvan

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #200 on: July 12, 2018, 11:21:31 AM »
Am I the only one who finds it funny that a PRIVATE meeting with a PUBLIC RELATIONS company regarding damage control has become a PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE? All these people are so very professional...

What makes you think this was a PRIVATE meeting, with any expectation of privacy?
They were on a conference call with a third party company.  If anyone thinks that saying anything on a conference call with ANYONE is sure to stay private, they should not be running a company.

I suppose I may be naive to think that a public relations meeting regarding damage control for a major company wouldn't be in a public forum. I don't believe for one second that a journalist sitting in on this simply reported the "news". Which leads me to assume that this was "leaked" by someone on the inside, but just my assumption. And it's not like the company had an ethical or legal restriction of privacy, but it just seems like bad business practice for a public relations firm who works with other companies.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #201 on: July 12, 2018, 11:26:05 AM »
Am I the only one who finds it funny that a PRIVATE meeting with a PUBLIC RELATIONS company regarding damage control has become a PUBLIC RELATIONS NIGHTMARE? All these people are so very professional...

What makes you think this was a PRIVATE meeting, with any expectation of privacy?
They were on a conference call with a third party company.  If anyone thinks that saying anything on a conference call with ANYONE is sure to stay private, they should not be running a company.

I suppose I may be naive to think that a public relations meeting regarding damage control for a major company wouldn't be in a public forum. I don't believe for one second that a journalist sitting in on this simply reported the "news". Which leads me to assume that this was "leaked" by someone on the inside, but just my assumption. And it's not like the company had an ethical or legal restriction of privacy, but it just seems like bad business practice for a public relations firm who works with other companies.
Well I agree it wasn't PUBLIC, with a reporter on the line, and was indeed likely a leak....but I also I think it shouldn't be assumed it was the PR firm that leaked.  It could have been Papa Johns leak.  Could have been a lot of scenarios.
Could have been the final straw and proof to the Board that he is a liability.
The point is that no one at that level of business would believe that ANY conference call is 100% private. 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 11:32:20 AM by eric42434224 »
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #202 on: July 12, 2018, 11:33:19 AM »
Well, I would think it should be private, but that's not really the issue, although that is kind of an issue today with leaks and whatnot.

However, if you are having a meeting with the CEO with the idea of making sure the CEO doesn't say anything stupid, since he has been known to do that before, and he actually does say something really dumb (not racist, but dumb) then I don't think it needs to be leaked or not for what he said, but he should probably be removed from his position since his actions cost his shareholders money.  I don't think this should give him the label as racist, but it should put him out of that position since he couldn't essentially pass this test.

Although the fact that he said the n word leaked has kind of cost him his reputation (I don't think that's fair, but we know the public will judge him) whereas they could have just let him step down and said they don't think he is fit to lead the company with out making what he said public.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #203 on: July 12, 2018, 12:51:31 PM »
There's no way to even think it's acceptable to use that in a business setting.

I respectfully disagree.  Unwise?  Sure.  Unacceptable?  No--at least in this context.  If he were indeed using it as a racial slur, then yes.  But he wasn't.  He was clearly using an example of another business using it that way, and using that story to basically have an example of conduct that EVERYONE could easily agree was wrong.  That is perfectly benign.  Again, I'm not saying it was smart.  But I cannot remotely say it was unacceptable.

The conference call was about sensitivity training, and he drops the N-word. So not only does he have poor judgment, he's tone deaf! He's surprised that a guy born in 1890 wasn't publicly lambasted for using the N word? None of this makes sense. Absolutely is unacceptable, doesn't matter that he wasn't using it as a racial slur, again, there's countless other ways for him to make his point. It's extremely poor judgment. But that's my two cents.

That's the entire point, though.  He didn't just "drop the N-word".   We don't know EXACTLY what his point was, but as el Barto (rightly, in my view) pointed out, one of the interpretations was that times have changed, and you didn't actually HAVE to go to the "n-word" to get in trouble anymore.   It can fairly and objectively said that this was a "re-calibration" in order to do the right thing moving forward, and not a lament about times passed, or some way to get subversive racism back in the conversation.   

I'm with Bosk on this.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #204 on: July 12, 2018, 12:56:29 PM »
Gotta agree to disagree, personally. I just think it's incredibly poor judgment for someone on that level and a mistake someone at his level really shouldn't be making. He's not sitting at a bar with his buddies, it's business. Check yourself and be smart about business. I can't really say it's unfair (perhaps the effect on his reputation and the hyper liberal people calling for his head just because of this, yeah, that's unfair), but wow, what a dumb thing to do on his end, I am not surprised, particularly after throwing his hat into the NFL debacle just a few months earlier.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #205 on: July 12, 2018, 01:03:29 PM »
He could have made the point a much better way though, I think that's really the point.  Also know your audience.  He missed that too.  Since his company is public, if I was a shareholder I'd vote to kick him out too.  His mouth is costing the company money and this instance wasn't the first time.

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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #206 on: July 12, 2018, 01:10:07 PM »
Gotta agree to disagree, personally. I just think it's incredibly poor judgment for someone on that level and a mistake someone at his level really shouldn't be making. He's not sitting at a bar with his buddies, it's business. Check yourself and be smart about business. I can't really say it's unfair (perhaps the effect on his reputation and the hyper liberal people calling for his head just because of this, yeah, that's unfair), but wow, what a dumb thing to do on his end, I am not surprised, particularly after throwing his hat into the NFL debacle just a few months earlier.
I won't speak for Bosk and Stadler, but I suspect everybody agrees that it was poor judgement. For my part I don't think that's what the mob is upset about, nor do I think it speaks to his ability to run a pizza company.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #207 on: July 12, 2018, 01:13:44 PM »
Well I dont know what it speaks to in regards to running a company, but it clearly has ramifications to a public company's image, good-will, and bottom line.
I have also been noticing some interesting dichotomy in how this is viewed by some, and how Colin Kapernik is viewed.  I see some that think those who kneel during the anthem should be fired....but Papa Johns behavior is somehow ok.  Interesting.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #208 on: July 12, 2018, 01:17:46 PM »
I dunno.  I'm kind of indifferent to any comparison.  I don't think the two situations are comparable.  So I don't think people who think Kap should be fired, but think this is ok are necessarily hypocrites.  However, a good many people who think that might very well be hypocrites, but for independent reasons.  If that makes sense.
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Re: The n-word and its use
« Reply #209 on: July 12, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »
Gotta agree to disagree, personally. I just think it's incredibly poor judgment for someone on that level and a mistake someone at his level really shouldn't be making. He's not sitting at a bar with his buddies, it's business. Check yourself and be smart about business. I can't really say it's unfair (perhaps the effect on his reputation and the hyper liberal people calling for his head just because of this, yeah, that's unfair), but wow, what a dumb thing to do on his end, I am not surprised, particularly after throwing his hat into the NFL debacle just a few months earlier.
I won't speak for Bosk and Stadler, but I suspect everybody agrees that it was poor judgement. For my part I don't think that's what the mob is upset about, nor do I think it speaks to his ability to run a pizza company.

It was without question poor judgment.   That was never my point.  I also don't object to his being removed; a company can do that for virtually any reason at any time, and frankly, I have zero interest in whether Schnatter has a job or not.   My point was only that all this was triggered not by his intent - the actual usage wasn't even part of the conversation - just that he said it.   We can point to 100's of CEOs that have exhibited poor judgment at times, including poor judgment that impacted the potential future earnings of their companies, and yet were not relieved of their duties or pressured to relieve themselves (speaking of using poor judgment...), and we can point to 100's of CEOs that were removed from their positions simply because the Board of Directors felt like it.   I'm only maintaining that a large part of the consequences (and the degree of those consequences) are specifically tied to that particular word, and nothing else.