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Offline Deep Sixx

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Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« on: July 30, 2013, 07:53:27 PM »
I'm sure many of you are aware of the similarities that were pointed out between Dream Theater's BMU, BMD and Feed the Machine by Red (this gained some notoriety because of Portnoy's comments on the matter) that were discussed in a UG article entitled "Did Dream Theater Steal From a Christian Rock Band?" I'd never seen DT accused of plagiarism before and I think I lost a few brain cells reading people's comments on the article. However a couple of people did point out some interesting similarities between DT songs and other artists that I thought I would share.

First of all I want to say that with only 12 tones repeated at octaves (In Western music of course), you're bound to run into similar sounding passages sooner or later.
Secondly, Dream Theater acknowledges their influences and have nicknamed some of their riffs after either the source of inspiration or something the riff reminds them of, e.g., the Meshuggah riff in Dance of Eternity and the Inspector Gadget riff in Fatal Tragedy. Also on the Octavarium album it is not hard to distinguish which songs feature nods to certain artists that the band likes.
Thirdly, I think the melodies and harmonies that one is drawn to on a conscious level can impact the mind on a subconscious level. So when composing, musicians might write a melody that they think sounds cool because subconsciously it sounds similar to something they heard and liked. But on a conscious level, they aren't trying to sound like anyone. They just want to write music that sounds good to them. Maybe I'm grasping at straws on this one, but it makes sense to me haha.
And lastly, I don't think a band as talented as Dream Theater would blatantly take large portions of material from someone else and just change part of it to make it theirs. And even IF they did, they've written enough original material to establish their place in progressive metal.

So here's a short list I've compiled. Feel free to add other similarities that you've heard or have seen others mention.


I guess I'll start with most known one...

1. Feed The Macine/BMU, BMD- Personally, I don't think they sound that alike. Structurally similar, yes, but certainly not enough to boldly claim that DT stole from them.

Red
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj2uZO7xnus&t=2m24s

DT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8u7CM8VEOo&t=0m22s


2. 46&2/Home-On the Metropolis 2000 DVD commentary Mike Portnoy actually talks about how fans on his forum pointed this out.

Tool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tja6_h4lT6A

DT
1 min into Home

3. These Shrouded Temples/As I Am- I gotta say this one made me :eek when I first heard it

Corrosion of Conformity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sYae25hnKI

DT
Start of the song

4. Give in to Me/Endless Sacrifice

Michael Jackson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_XhnHbdqWA

DT
Start of the song

5. Solsbury Hill/Solitary Shell

Peter Gabriel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fF8wU4Nl9Y&t=0m26s

DT
33 seconds in Solitary Shell

6. Noose/This Dying Soul

Ark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIyNIqXQzEE

DT
13 seconds into This Dying Soul

7. No one at the Bridge/The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun- I know DT are big Rush fans so if this isn't a coincidence I'm going with this being a subtle nod to Rush.

Rush
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDFPqZV-q7A&t=0m17s

DT
1 minute and 18 seconds into TOWHTSTS


Thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 09:33:56 AM by Deep Sixx »
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 08:07:30 PM »
Wow, didn't know about that As I Am one. To me As I Am just always reminded me of Metallica. There are definitely those influences. "As I Aaaaam. Ye-ah!" But yeah, that riff is definitely strikingly similar.


I was listening to a relatively unknown band called Empty Tremor, and found an incredible similarity between the keyboard solo at the beginning of it, and the one in Honor Thy Father:

Empty Tremor (couldn't find a YT link). Skip to 1:34 if you just wanna hear the solo:

https://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Don+t+Stop+Me/2HVDYG?src=5

Not gonna post any DT links. But you should recognize which solo I mean.
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Offline Deep Sixx

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2013, 08:28:18 PM »
Whoops didn't know about the unofficial DT link rule heh heh. And yeah, I hadn't even heard of Corrosion of Conformity...that seems like such an obscure band. That Empty Tremor solo does sound sorta similar. The keyboard section in Honor Thy Father is my favorite part of that song too.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 08:32:25 PM »
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Offline Marion Crane

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 08:33:40 PM »
Never Enough/Stockholm Sindrome - Muse
Panic Attack/Glorious - Muse
The Great Debate/also 46 and 2
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 08:36:24 PM »
It's much more fun when there's links to click on.
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Offline Marion Crane

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2013, 08:37:08 PM »
Doing this from my phone. Makes it difficult.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 08:39:44 PM »
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Offline Deep Sixx

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 08:42:25 PM »
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:32:25 PM
You guess the songs.

UK - In the Dead of Night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sgvrkY-dPNM&t=178

Billy Joel - Everybody Has A Dream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=S129T9kav8I&t=272

Kansas - The Wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SBMsulQMqm8&t=256

The first one beats me lol. Something from I&W? I haven't listened to that in a while haha.

Second is Hollow Years.

Third is.....the Razor's Edge section from Octavarium?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 08:44:16 PM »
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on July 30, 2013, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:32:25 PM
UK - In the Dead of Night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sgvrkY-dPNM&t=178
Doesn't ring a bell. =/

WTF? Trial of Tears, from 6:45 on it gets really obvious.

Quote
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:32:25 PM
Kansas - The Wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SBMsulQMqm8&t=256

Umm... The Best Of Times?

The end of Octavarium.


I'm actually surprised by your post. To me the similarities are blatant.
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Offline Deep Sixx

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 08:46:11 PM »
Hey did you see the comment on the vid you linked Rumborak?  Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBMsulQMqm8&t=3m35s

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Offline theseoafs

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 08:49:24 PM »
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:32:25 PM
Billy Joel - Everybody Has A Dream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=S129T9kav8I&t=272

(Actually the theme from The Stranger, reprised at the end of this song, rather than an actual part of Everybody Has A Dream.)

Quote
Kansas - The Wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SBMsulQMqm8&t=256

Yep, shades of Octavarium.  At the beginning of the outro, you can also hear a bit of the SDOIT theme:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SBMsulQMqm8&t=216

Quote from: Deep Sixx on July 30, 2013, 07:53:27 PM
3. These Shrouded Temples/As I Am- I gotta say this one made me :eek when I first heard it

Corrosion of Conformity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sYae25hnKI

... holy shit. 
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 08:52:27 PM »
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
WTF? Trial of Tears, from 6:45 on it gets really obvious.
Sorry, don't hear it.

Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
The end of Octavarium.


I'm actually surprised by your post. To me the similarities are blatant.

Really? I know the album and the song. I've listened to The Wall countless times and it's never reminded me of any song in DT. I just said The Best of Times because the beginning part from the time you linked reminds me of the beginning of the solo, but barely.

Actually, yeah, the comment on the actual YouTube page made me think, and it does remind me of parts of the Overture from 6 degrees, if anything. But not really Octavarium, for some reason.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2013, 08:55:04 PM »
Quote from: theseoafs on July 30, 2013, 08:49:24 PM


Quote from: Deep Sixx on July 30, 2013, 07:53:27 PM
3. These Shrouded Temples/As I Am- I gotta say this one made me :eek when I first heard it

Corrosion of Conformity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sYae25hnKI

... holy shit.

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Offline Lucien

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2013, 09:02:20 PM »
I love the Fountain of Lamneth nod in TOWHtStS
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2013, 09:06:29 PM »
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on July 30, 2013, 08:52:27 PM
Quote from: rumborak on July 30, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
The end of Octavarium.


I'm actually surprised by your post. To me the similarities are blatant.

Really? I know the album and the song. I've listened to The Wall countless times and it's never reminded me of any song in DT. I just said The Best of Times because the beginning part from the time you linked reminds me of the beginning of the solo, but barely.

Actually, yeah, the comment on the actual YouTube page made me think, and it does remind me of parts of the Overture from 6 degrees, if anything. But not really Octavarium, for some reason.
It's like, one note from Razor's Edge. Hardly a similarity.
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Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2013, 09:15:57 PM »
I think the only real plagiarism here is BMUBMD / Feed The Machine. I mean come on, they're pretty much the exact same song.
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Offline Deep Sixx

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2013, 09:16:46 PM »
Quote from: Marion Crane on July 30, 2013, 08:33:40 PM
Never Enough/Stockholm Sindrome - Muse
Panic Attack/Glorious - Muse
The Great Debate/also 46 and 2

I forgot to mention the Never Enough one, I've seen that pointed out before....Me I don't really hear it. Maybe in that James is trying to imitate Matthew? Speaking of which I can't stand his voice now I don't know why. Muse used to be in my top 3 but Matt's voice just annoys me. I have to listen to their music in small doses lol. Great musicians though.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2013, 09:35:15 PM »
I wasn't familiar with the COC song or with Ark.  Wow, Ark are pretty amazing!
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2013, 09:35:52 PM »
Never noticed the similarity between home and 46&2 but now that you mention it they are rather similar.
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Offline Index

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2013, 10:42:58 PM »
I always noticed a similarity between These Walls and From the Inside by Linkin Park.
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Offline Bolsters

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2013, 10:50:52 PM »
Yngwie Malmsteen and Strange Deja Vu riff.

Also, my First post on this forum was actually in a similar topic. :\
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Offline The Fatal Tragedy

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2013, 11:02:34 PM »
I'll mention a similarity that I don't think anyone else has noticed before.

"Illusion" by Uriah Heep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzkfGW3-QP4 (Specifically starting at 1:02)

"This Is the Life" by Dream Theater

As with the case of "Feed The Macine/BMU, BMD," this is yet another obvious act of plagiarism on ADTOE.

The album should have been called, "A Dramatic Act of Plagiarism."
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Offline puppyonacid

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2013, 02:12:05 AM »
I haven't listened to all of everything on here....the As I Am one thought is striking.

Some things though I feel are forgivable. Within any genre you get chord progressions and intervals that fit the genre. In the As I Am example, you have that tritone sound that sound very black and metal. It's not really a surprise that two different bands found that 4 note combination in that rhythm.

There is however a fine line between coincidental overlaps and down right plagarism.
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Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2013, 02:32:16 AM »
The opening of this Spheric Universe Experience song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXNcrd6uyg8 is almost exactly the same as the keyboard bit of The Great Debate.
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Offline noxon

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2013, 02:38:48 AM »
UK and Trial of Tears one is really obvious. Similar rhythms and the solo JP plays is very clearly Allan Holdsworth-inspired.

https://youtu.be/AeXSQl56no8?t=3m6s

vs

https://youtu.be/uWaEC86WBuE?t=6m13s
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 08:04:45 AM by noxon »
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Offline cyberdrummer

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2013, 03:02:00 AM »
Quote from: Deep Sixx on July 30, 2013, 09:16:46 PM
Quote from: Marion Crane on July 30, 2013, 08:33:40 PM
Never Enough/Stockholm Sindrome - Muse
Panic Attack/Glorious - Muse
The Great Debate/also 46 and 2

I forgot to mention the Never Enough one, I've seen that pointed out before....Me I don't really hear it. Maybe in that James is trying to imitate Matthew? Speaking of which I can't stand his voice now I don't know why. Muse used to be in my top 3 but Matt's voice just annoys me. I have to listen to their music in small doses lol. Great musicians though.

It's the main riff that is most similar.
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Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2013, 03:09:05 AM »
I remember listening to The Wall a few years after I'd first heard it and going "HOLY FUCK RAZOR'S EDGE" :biggrin:

I think you can only chalk up these similarities to deliberate "copying" if DT dudes are documented fans of the band in question. I personally think they're doing it more as an homage and never thought to use the word "plagiarism", as a lot of times they straight up say which bands inspired which parts, but it is true that the way they do it is often a bit too close for comfort.
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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2013, 03:14:55 AM »
Wow, the BMUBMD/Feed the Machine similarity is closer than I remembered! I wouldn't call it a rip-off though.

I hadn't heard the Kansas song before, cool discoveries!
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Offline hipodilski

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2013, 03:26:57 AM »
Anybody old enough to remember when Empty Tremor planted an instrumental mp3 on the net and had someone to claim it as unreleased leaked part of the Metropolis 2 demo? These were hilarious times.
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2013, 07:29:10 AM »
There's a part in Deep in Heaven where Derek plays a keyboard part that sounds almost EXACTLY (melody-wise) like Immigrant Song.
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Offline Marion Crane

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2013, 07:54:40 AM »
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2013, 08:05:15 AM »
There's a part of "Metropolis part 1" that sounds like a section from Kansas' "Magnum Opus".
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Offline Joshin U

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2013, 08:24:58 AM »
If you listen closely to "Perfect Strangers" from ACOS, it kinda sounds like a Deep Purple song.
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Offline Big Hath

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Re: Dream Theater song similarities to other works
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2013, 09:21:55 AM »
Quote from: Joshin U on July 31, 2013, 08:24:58 AM
If you listen closely to "Perfect Strangers" from ACOS, it kinda sounds like a Deep Purple song.

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