The Official "Best TV Show" Thread

[Joshin U]

Walter White's a better character than Tony Soprano, as are most of the supporting cast.

I take issue with this. When it comes to the protagonists, they are both phenomenal characters in there own way and I feel dirty comparing them. Walter's transformation as a character over the course of the show has been done really well, but Tony Soprano's constant struggle to balance the two 'families' is just as interesting imho. Also, for what it's worth, I think James Gandolfini did a better acting job in his respective role.

Putting that aside, I do think the supporting casts are easier to compare. Breaking Bad's is good, no denying that. Saul is a hilarious character, BUT he's kind of one-dimensional. Walt Junior is kind of useless as a character. Wifey is alright, I suppose, but I can honestly say I've not once been surprised by her. Which really just leaves Hank and Jesse: two very good characters.

The Sopranos supporting cast has more than two very good characters. And the vast majority of the supporting characters are both well developed and multi-faceted. It's subjective, I know, but I would label Chistopher Moltisanti, Tony Blundetto, Dr. Melfi, Adriana, and Junior Soprano all as very good characters on par with Hank and Jesse (with Chris being my favorite of them all). Throw in some Paulie Walnuts, Carmela Soprano, Silvio Dante, Big Pussy, and you have, arguably, the greatest ensemble cast to ever appear on television. I'll admit, the Soprano children are kind of a pain in the ass, but the rest more than make up for that.

I'll give you the ensemble cast and sheer number of reliable characters, for sure.  But I personally find Walt's character arc MUCH more interesting than Tony's constant struggle.

However, I strongly believe that both Bryan Cranston AND Aaron Paul's performances are far superior to Gandolfini's. In fact, I consider their respective performances and chemistry to be the best on television.

[KevShmev]

Eh, Aaron Paul wasn't that great early on.  Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 5; the gap in his acting is pretty wide.  Having recently watched the entire series, that really stood out, how much better his acting got over the course of the series.  I am not saying he was bad early on, but not really notable. 

Really, though, Tony vs Walt and Gandolfini vs Cranston are two battles where there really are no wrong answers.

Now, the gap between Edie Falco and Anna Gunn is MASSIVE.  Gunn does a solid job playing Skylar, but that's it.  When Skylar and Walt fight, it is like watching a heavyweight vs a lightweight; Tony and Carmela fighting was two heavyweight actors duking it out.

[Joshin U]

Eh, Aaron Paul wasn't that great early on.  Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 5; the gap in his acting is pretty wide.  Having recently watched the entire series, that really stood out, how much better his acting got over the course of the series.  I am not saying he was bad early on, but not really notable. 

Really, though, Tony vs Walt and Gandolfini vs Cranston are two battles where there really are no wrong answers.

Now, the gap between Edie Falco and Anna Gunn is MASSIVE.  Gunn does a solid job playing Skylar, but that's it.  When Skylar and Walt fight, it is like watching a heavyweight vs a lightweight; Tony and Carmela fighting was two heavyweight actors duking it out.

I don't disagree with you on any particular point, especially not on the Anna Gunn vs. Edie Falco argument.  I have always attributed Paul's performance in the first (two?) season(s) as part of his writing arc and not an acting component.  I don't think he "improved" as actor too incredibly much, but his character became more complex and required more.

[Dimitrius]

Also, when Walt and Skyler fight it's always pretty obvious that Walt has the "mental" edge over her. So I mean it's not that Anna can't act it's that their fights are written with the idea of Cranston being on top, look at the one they had in season 5 where she is trying to one up him and he bats it everytime, she's just trying to keep it together.

Falco is a better actress anyway, but her character is also better written.

[senecadawg2]

Aaron Paul is a very fine actor, and maybe any deficiencies stem more from the character than anything else, but I can't compare him to Gandolfini. The latter was so much more dynamic and nuanced in his delivery. As for the leads though,

Really, though, Tony vs Walt and Gandolfini vs Cranston are two battles where there really are no wrong answers.

Here's the truth.

[El Barto]

Tony's balancing act was certainly fun to watch. However, he was something of a stagnant character. He was always a good family man and a ruthless bastard. Walter White is a fantastic transformation to watch. While Tony was a vile yet sympathetic character, Walt moved gracefully from one to the other. It's hard to pinpoint the exact time when Walt actually moved from sympathetic to scum. That to me is more interesting. Furthermore, Gandolfinini wasn't really acting outside of his comfort zone. He was played the fat Italian thug, which was somewhat natural for him. I'm not diminishing his acting ability which is top notch; just qualifying it a bit. It boggles my mind that Cranston is the same guy who played Hal. There's a depth of acting here that makes me rank him higher.

As for Falco vs Gunn, I think Dimi nailed it. The ladies are both in the same roll, but written completely differently. Hard to compare.

Also, when we talk about supporting casts, lets not leave out Gus Fring and Mike. I'd rank Giancarlo's performance up there with anybody from either series.

[Joshin U]

Tony's balancing act was certainly fun to watch. However, he was something of a stagnant character. He was always a good family man and a ruthless bastard. Walter White is a fantastic transformation to watch. While Tony was a vile yet sympathetic character, Walt moved gracefully from one to the other. It's hard to pinpoint the exact time when Walt actually moved from sympathetic to scum. That to me is more interesting. Furthermore, Gandolfinini wasn't really acting outside of his comfort zone. He was played the fat Italian thug, which was somewhat natural for him. I'm not diminishing his acting ability which is top notch; just qualifying it a bit. It boggles my mind that Cranston is the same guy who played Hal. There's a depth of acting here that makes me rank him higher.

As for Falco vs Gunn, I think Dimi nailed it. The ladies are both in the same roll, but written completely differently. Hard to compare.

Also, when we talk about supporting casts, lets not leave out Gus Fring and Mike. I'd rank Giancarlo's performance up there with anybody from either series.

There is much truth to this post

And a second amen to Giancarlo.  From his calm brutality in "Box Cutter" to his fear and anguish in "Hermanos"... Shit, man. He's top class.

[GuineaPig]

Eh, I think Walter White's character arc is a bit broad and melodramatic.  It's well-executed, but also really obvious and not all that nuanced.  I don't think it compares all that favourably to Tony Soprano's ability to find different ways to stay the same.

[orcus116]

I'm surprised to BB so far ahead. I really enjoy the show but The Wire took the medium of TV up a notch. Definitely the best executed all around show I've ever seen.

Eh, Aaron Paul wasn't that great early on.  Watch Season 1 and then watch Season 5; the gap in his acting is pretty wide.  Having recently watched the entire series, that really stood out, how much better his acting got over the course of the series.  I am not saying he was bad early on, but not really notable. 

The episode he really shined early on was Peekaboo. Definitely took his character to the next level.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

House, M.D.

I've seen each episode so much, I find myself quoting parts randomly and can shamelessly quote much of it, and still I find myself seeing new quirks to Laurie or Leonard's performances. Breaking Bad is right behind it, but there's times when that show is too much for me, too dark or, for lack of a better word, stressful. House is compelling, interesting, and can still be watched in a relaxed state and give you a laugh, it's got it all. There will never be a show that I'm as in love with the characters and the story, I don't think.

This, this, this.

This is my favorite TV show ever and although I'm a TV-holic, I haven't gotten as close to a TV show as I did with House. The whole thing hit me at a very deep and personal level, and like every TV show there is it had its flaws but when it shone, it really shone.

[sueño]

A friend told me once I reminded her of "House".  I watched one random episode and wasn't flattered.   

However,  I've only heard great things about the show,  so I guess I better get it into the queue,  too...

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

*Is not sure why Scrubs isn't an option*

[sueño]

*Is not sure why Scrubs isn't an option*

It's not a drama,  but OY! It's sublime!!!   

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Oh. Didn't notice the "drama" qualification. Still, it's my favorite show.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

A friend told me once I reminded her of "House".  I watched one random episode and wasn't flattered.   

However,  I've only heard great things about the show,  so I guess I better get it into the queue,  too...

The thing with this TV show is that you have to grasp it from the beginning. You can't like, you know, start watching from the 4th season onwards because you're gonna miss several important details from the first seasons. Although it's medical, the show's core lies in its characters, their flaws and their relationships. It really gets under your skin if you grasp the whole meaning of it all, and it goes without mention that Hugh Laurie's performance is more than perfect. What an actor.

[HarlequinForest]

The Wire and Six Feet Under are untouchable, imo.

[Bolsters]

I really hated those last seasons of House. After suffering all the way through season 6 I had to stop watching the show altogether. I don't think I've ever seen another series go from being so great to being so horrible, it was a complete about-face. I really enjoy those early seasons though, 1-3 in particular but 4 and 5 were pretty good too. It was probably my favourite show back in the season 2 or 3 days.

Right now though my favourite show is Breaking Bad. So, an easy choice for me.

[wasteland]

I'm not sure how meaningful my vote could be, as I only listened to one show from the list, but since it's quite behind I think it's fair to be a little partial here.

Game Of Thrones

[?]

I haven't watched any of these But hey, I don't watch TV a lot anyway.

[King Postwhore]

Huge Shield fan here.

[jingle.boy]

I really hated those last seasons of House. After suffering all the way through season 6 I had to stop watching the show altogether. I don't think I've ever seen another series go from being so great to being so horrible, it was a complete about-face. I really enjoy those early seasons though, 1-3 in particular but 4 and 5 were pretty good too. It was probably my favourite show back in the season 2 or 3 days.

Same.  The Mrs and I gave up a couple of seasons after they broke up the original gang.  Never even watched the last few seasons at all.  Didn't House and the boss end up hooking up?  They'd at that point.

[orcus116]

Huge Shield fan here.

I saw the first episode and couldn't stand it. Everything about it felt on par with something like Burn Notice.

[Bolsters]

Same.  The Mrs and I gave up a couple of seasons after they broke up the original gang.  Never even watched the last few seasons at all.  Didn't House and the boss end up hooking up?  They'd at that point.

Yeah they started dating, and it was terrible. Definitely one of the tipping points for me. I liked it when House and Cuddy were at each other all the time and there was an undercurrent of sexual tension, once they became a couple the show seemed a bit soapy. Add to that Chase committing murder in one episode, another where Foreman and Taub get locked in a storeroom and smoke weed...major shark jumpage. So that's when I stopped watching it.

[jingle.boy]

Glad I missed that crap.  Agree on the relationship between House and Cuddy in the first few seasons.

[senecadawg2]

The Wire and Six Feet Under are untouchable, imo.

You have good taste  I just finished my rewatch of the 4th season of SFU. The 3rd and 4th seasons were probably the weakest of the 5, but still great. Such a great beginning, and the best ending of any TV show I've ever watched. And talk about great characters! 

[KevShmev]

   I have always attributed Paul's performance in the first (two?) season(s) as part of his writing arc and not an acting component.  I don't think he "improved" as actor too incredibly much, but his character became more complex and required more.

That is very possible.  I will go back and re-watch the entire series again at some point, so I will see if I feel that way the second time around.

Also, when Walt and Skyler fight it's always pretty obvious that Walt has the "mental" edge over her. So I mean it's not that Anna can't act it's that their fights are written with the idea of Cranston being on top, look at the one they had in season 5 where she is trying to one up him and he bats it everytime, she's just trying to keep it together.
 

Well, he might have the mental edge, but she almost always has facts on her side.  Like when she exposed his lies when she left him at the end of Season 2.  Once she exposed his lies, he basically just stood there and took it and didn't say a word. 

Tony's balancing act was certainly fun to watch. However, he was something of a stagnant character. He was always a good family man and a ruthless bastard. Walter White is a fantastic transformation to watch. While Tony was a vile yet sympathetic character, Walt moved gracefully from one to the other. It's hard to pinpoint the exact time when Walt actually moved from sympathetic to scum. That to me is more interesting. Furthermore, Gandolfinini wasn't really acting outside of his comfort zone. He was played the fat Italian thug, which was somewhat natural for him. I'm not diminishing his acting ability which is top notch; just qualifying it a bit. It boggles my mind that Cranston is the same guy who played Hal. There's a depth of acting here that makes me rank him higher.

As for Falco vs Gunn, I think Dimi nailed it. The ladies are both in the same roll, but written completely differently. Hard to compare.

Also, when we talk about supporting casts, lets not leave out Gus Fring and Mike. I'd rank Giancarlo's performance up there with anybody from either series.

Yep, Giancarlo Esposito definitely did a fantastic job as Gus, and Mike was one of my favorite characters; I liked his silent but deadly approach. And everything he said was always so deliberate.

But I do have to take issue with calling Tony a good family man.  Let's see, he was a serial cheater, he once threatened a guy his daughter was dating just because he was black and he once referred to his son as a "fucking idiot" to his shrink.  That is a good family man?

The episode he really shined early on was Peekaboo. Definitely took his character to the next level.

I supposed.  Personally, as much as I love the show, some of the episodes that focus on Jesse a lot lagged a bit. The Peekaboo episode was a good one as far as character-building went - it showed his love for kids that was first evident when we saw his interact with his little brother - but it wasn't overly interesting to watch for nearly an hour.  Same for early in Season 4, when there were several episodes which focused big time on him having all of those hobos and stuff living in his house.  Yeah, he was trying to deal with the anguish of having killed Gale - I get it - but it wasn't that interesting to watch, even though it was obviously understandable to show how his character was dealing with that traumatic event.

[Marion Crane]

Even thought I voted for Breaking Bad, I really think Sons of Anarchy needs to be on the list

[HarlequinForest]

The Wire and Six Feet Under are untouchable, imo.

The 3rd and 4th seasons were probably the weakest of the 5, but still great. Such a great beginning, and the best ending of any TV show I've ever watched. And talk about great characters! 

Strongly agreed on all points!

[El Barto]

But I do have to take issue with calling Tony a good family man.  Let's see, he was a serial cheater, he once threatened a guy his daughter was dating just because he was black and he once referred to his son as a "fucking idiot" to his shrink.  That is a good family man?

Well, he was certainly no Ward Cleaver, I'll give you that. However, he provided for them, loved them dearly, and you never doubted that they were the single most important thing to him; even Carmella. It's this in contrast to the fact that he was a genuine asshole that made him so interesting.

I supposed.  Personally, as much as I love the show, some of the episodes that focus on Jesse a lot lagged a bit. The Peekaboo episode was a good one as far as character-building went - it showed his love for kids that was first evident when we saw his interact with his little brother - but it wasn't overly interesting to watch for nearly an hour.  Same for early in Season 4, when there were several episodes which focused big time on him having all of those hobos and stuff living in his house.  Yeah, he was trying to deal with the anguish of having killed Gale - I get it - but it wasn't that interesting to watch, even though it was obviously understandable to show how his character was dealing with that traumatic event.

I kind of thought it was all related to his dead GF, rather than Gale. I think at one point he even said that the Gale thing didn't trouble him at all. The funk over his girlfriend never seemed to go away, though.

[orcus116]

Did anyone think the one think BB mishandled was

Jesse's girlfriend and the poisoning of her son? I mean when they brought that scenario and the characters back in season 5 I had completely forgotten everything about it, even though it was the big surprise at the end of Season 4. I think that happened all too quick in Season 4.

[KevShmev]

But I do have to take issue with calling Tony a good family man.  Let's see, he was a serial cheater, he once threatened a guy his daughter was dating just because he was black and he once referred to his son as a "fucking idiot" to his shrink.  That is a good family man?

Well, he was certainly no Ward Cleaver, I'll give you that. However, he provided for them, loved them dearly, and you never doubted that they were the single most important thing to him; even Carmella. It's this in contrast to the fact that he was a genuine asshole that made him so interesting.
 

I don't agree that they were always the most important thing to him.  Time after time, we saw him get aggravated cause he had to do family stuff, sometimes something as simple as a family dinner.  I remember Season when he said something mean to A.J., but later apologized to him with a pizza, and barely a minute later, Big Pussy calls him about finding the guy that tried to kill Christopher and boom, Tony's out the door, bailing on his make-up dinner with his song, to whack some guy. 

I suppose.  Personally, as much as I love the show, some of the episodes that focus on Jesse a lot lagged a bit. The Peekaboo episode was a good one as far as character-building went - it showed his love for kids that was first evident when we saw his interact with his little brother - but it wasn't overly interesting to watch for nearly an hour.  Same for early in Season 4, when there were several episodes which focused big time on him having all of those hobos and stuff living in his house.  Yeah, he was trying to deal with the anguish of having killed Gale - I get it - but it wasn't that interesting to watch, even though it was obviously understandable to show how his character was dealing with that traumatic event.

I kind of thought it was all related to his dead GF, rather than Gale. I think at one point he even said that the Gale thing didn't trouble him at all. The funk over his girlfriend never seemed to go away, though.

Okay, that makes sense, but regardless of the reason, while, again, I get why those scenes were necessary to show how his character was dealing with it all, they weren't particularly interesting to me from a viewing standpoint.

Did anyone think the one think BB mishandled was

Jesse's girlfriend and the poisoning of her son? I mean when they brought that scenario and the characters back in season 5 I had completely forgotten everything about it, even though it was the big surprise at the end of Season 4. I think that happened all too quick in Season 4.

No.

[GuineaPig]

Did anyone think the one think BB mishandled was

Jesse's girlfriend and the poisoning of her son? I mean when they brought that scenario and the characters back in season 5 I had completely forgotten everything about it, even though it was the big surprise at the end of Season 4. I think that happened all too quick in Season 4.

Breaking Bad kind of has a thing with throwing things in for shock value and then quickly forgetting about them.  Similar things happened at the end of season two or three.

[BlackInk]

Only seen Game of Thrones here... Something tells me I have some catching up to do.

[Joshin U]

Did anyone think the one think BB mishandled was

Jesse's girlfriend and the poisoning of her son? I mean when they brought that scenario and the characters back in season 5 I had completely forgotten everything about it, even though it was the big surprise at the end of Season 4. I think that happened all too quick in Season 4.

Breaking Bad kind of has a thing with throwing things in for shock value and then quickly forgetting about them.  Similar things happened at the end of season two or three.

    I understand the argument that BB used season 2's twist for shock effect (although I think it served a bigger purpose), but I don't even kind of agree that 3's ending was purely for shock value. That event was extremely important for the story and Jesse's character arc.

***SPOILER ALERT***

The only event I think BB mishandled was Marie's random bout of kleptomania. Didn't really flesh out and was dropped almost instantly.

***END SPOILER***

[GuineaPig]

Did anyone think the one think BB mishandled was

Jesse's girlfriend and the poisoning of her son? I mean when they brought that scenario and the characters back in season 5 I had completely forgotten everything about it, even though it was the big surprise at the end of Season 4. I think that happened all too quick in Season 4.

Breaking Bad kind of has a thing with throwing things in for shock value and then quickly forgetting about them.  Similar things happened at the end of season two or three.

    I understand the argument that BB used season 2's twist for shock effect (although I think it served a bigger purpose), but I don't even kind of agree that 3's ending was purely for shock value. That event was extremely important for the story and Jesse's character arc.

***SPOILER ALERT***

The only event I think BB mishandled was Marie's random bout of kleptomania. Didn't really flesh out and was dropped almost instantly.

***END SPOILER***

I was referring to the deus ex azteca.