The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded

[Mladen]

I might have said this before, but that middle/outro riff is the best riff on the album. By far.

[Kotowboy]

I might have said this before, but that middle/outro riff is the best riff on the album. By far.

[Stadler]

Most of the solos are incredibly nothingy, but I do quite enjoy the one in Spit Out the Bone. It's not exactly amazing, but it at least feels like he actually wrote one rather than just playing whatever, and it's more interesting as a result.

Doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the album though, as almost all the solos are short and not really a key feature.

The good thing is, though, is that James/Lars must have laid down the fucking law, because even though they're short, they're real solos, not that noise-wankery that guys like Tom Morello seem to have made a career out of peddling, and that Kirk seems to show some affinity for.   

[Kotowboy]

Tom Morello


Literally anyone with a kill-switch and a whammy pedal can sound like him.

[Train of Naught]

"Guys like Morello" seemingly implies that he is part of a big horde of uninspiring guitarists when it comes to soloing but maybe thats just my interpretation.

Whether you like it or not, at least he did something no one had done before. And i know that that alone doesn't justify anything, but saying they're 'not real solos' is just plain incorrect.

[cramx3]

Tom Morello


Literally anyone with a kill-switch and a whammy pedal can sound like him.

Was never a fan until I saw Prophets of Rage over the summer, and even though he uses the whammy pedal a crazy amount, he was absurdly mesmerizing to watch play and really was able to do things I have not seen before.  Totally changed my opinion on him.   

[jakepriest]

Tom Morello

Literally anyone with a kill-switch and a whammy pedal can sound like him.

That sweet little solo in Audioslave's Like A Stone is more memorable than anything Kirk has ever put out.

[Stadler]

"Guys like Morello" seemingly implies that he is part of a big horde of uninspiring guitarists when it comes to soloing but maybe thats just my interpretation.

Whether you like it or not, at least he did something no one had done before. And i know that that alone doesn't justify anything, but saying they're 'not real solos' is just plain incorrect.

I never said they weren't "solos".   I just know that I recently picked up "Revelations", and the songs were largely verse, chorus, fluttery butterfly sound, extended wah sound, moderately fast scalar run, bridge, verse, chorus.   Very samey to me.   

I'm not at all saying Morello "sucks" or he's "bad", but I do think there is a real difference in terms of "making sounds" and piecing together melodic tuneful, TONEFUL, solos that bring the song to another level - think Schenker, Blackmore, Murray, Rhoads...   I know Kirk can do it, I've heard it.   

[Progmetty]

I came here to comment on Hammett's soloing on this album and you guys are talking about it!
I have not been known to bash Kirk, I think I never complained about him and I find people who do as funny as the people who complain about Lars, cause to me Metallica is not about musicianship, it's about a vibe. That's why I still prefer Newsted to Trujillo, "but Trujillo is a better bass player", doesn't mean shit to me, this isn't Dream Theater.
HOWEVER, Hammett really blew it this time, he put minimal thought and effort into his solos on this album IMO, seems like he couldn't spare any fucks here. I'm calling the solos on this album "portable", these solos can practically be moved and exchanged between all the songs on this album and it won't matter, they all sound the same, they all go towards the same ups and downs and they all feel so uninspired and forced. Very disappointing on Hetfield and Ulrich as well that they didn't press him into doing better.

[PixelDream]

What's with all the Tom Morello bashing? Totally unique and inventive guitar player of you ask me.

[Zydar]

Apparently Lars coached Kirk on how to make the solos.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/kirk_hammett_lars_coached_me_on_how_to_make_solos_for_new_metallica_album.html

[Progmetty]

That's a nice under-the-bus throw there

[Kotowboy]

What's with all the Tom Morello bashing? Totally unique and inventive guitar player of you ask me.

He has one sound as he sticks to it like glue on every album. Even when RATM became Audioslave i thought " oh great - maybe he'll play differently in this new band "


NOPE.

[Kotowboy]

Apparently Lars coached Kirk on how to make the solos.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/kirk_hammett_lars_coached_me_on_how_to_make_solos_for_new_metallica_album.html

That's a bit of a loaded headline. It's merely just lars suggesting solo arrangements. Like Kirk says - Lars isn't a melodic musician so doesn't suggest scales or anything.


Replace Lars with Greg in the article and all of a sudden it's a perfectly acceptable suggestion.

[Zook]

Tom Morello

Literally anyone with a kill-switch and a whammy pedal can sound like him.

That sweet little solo in Audioslave's Like A Stone is more memorable than anything Kirk has ever put out.

Yep. I'll never forget how awful that solo is.

[nobloodyname]

Re Hammett, I think it says everything that Fidelman, in the making of Dream No More video, made a sly quip about keeping Kirk away from the wahwah pedal. As for the solos, almost universally appalling. I'm not really one to bash Metallica. Hell, I even like St Anger. But the solos on this album... as I said somewhere else, they all sound like me in the session mode of Rocksmith. And that's not a good thing.

[Adami]

Apparently Lars coached Kirk on how to make the solos.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/kirk_hammett_lars_coached_me_on_how_to_make_solos_for_new_metallica_album.html

That's a bit of a loaded headline. It's merely just lars suggesting solo arrangements. Like Kirk says - Lars isn't a melodic musician so doesn't suggest scales or anything.


Replace Lars with Greg in the article and all of a sudden it's a perfectly acceptable suggestion.

I can picture Lars now..

" No no no! What the hell are you doing premepting the dominant with a major 7th? Do you listen to Metallica and think words like Ionian? No! You think pentatonic! Now stick to the 12th and 14th frets and shut your pie hole!"

[mikeyd23]

Apparently Lars coached Kirk on how to make the solos.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/kirk_hammett_lars_coached_me_on_how_to_make_solos_for_new_metallica_album.html

That's a bit of a loaded headline. It's merely just lars suggesting solo arrangements. Like Kirk says - Lars isn't a melodic musician so doesn't suggest scales or anything.


Replace Lars with Greg in the article and all of a sudden it's a perfectly acceptable suggestion.

I can picture Lars now..

" No no no! What the hell are you doing premepting the dominant with a major 7th? Do you listen to Metallica and think words like Ionian? No! You think pentatonic! Now stick to the 12th and 14th frets and shut your pie hole!"

  Right on.

It sounds like Lars did the exact same thing with Kirk's solos on this album that he did on DM. There's lots of footage of those interactions on Making Magnetic. It's basically Lars tell Kirk to go after a certain vibe or feel or telling him when to play fast or stuff like that. Stuff a drummer would say to a guitar player. I'm not going to knock it, because I'm not sure that Kirk could come up with better stuff without Lars at this point. 20 years ago? Yeah probably. But not now.

[Kotowboy]

" No no no! What the hell are you doing premepting the dominant with a major 7th? Do you listen to Metallica and think words like Ionian? No! You think pentatonic! Now stick to the 12th and 14th frets and shut your pie hole!"

Kirk duuude. You're in Aeolian. the sixth is MINOR. This song is about PTSD - it's no place to be using any secondary dominants or modal interchange. Think of your scale tones !

Think about voice leading.


I can't imagine Lars having advanced music theory knowledge.  Although in the making of Death Magnetic he is talking about drum accents and he says something like " the and of 3 "

so he's not entirely ignorant of it.



EDIT : Besides - Kirk said in another interview that he records SO MANY solo ideas for each song - he has no idea which is the best one and Greg and Lars help decide. And if it was up to Kirk

- he'd put all of them on the song.

[pogoowner]

Tom Morello

Literally anyone with a kill-switch and a whammy pedal can sound like him.

That sweet little solo in Audioslave's Like A Stone is more memorable than anything Kirk has ever put out.

Yep. I'll never forget how awful that solo is.

Morello has a few solos that suck, but that is most certainly not one of them. My favorite of his is "I Am the Highway." Incredibly simple, but perfect for the song and extremely tasteful.

[OpenYourEyes311]

Serious question... I am reading a lot of "complaints" about Kirk's solos. For the most part, I never really pay attention to his solos as I'm more focused on what James's rhythm guitar is doing, or Lars on the drums. My question is: would it be better if they went the St. Anger route, and completely eliminated the solo? Does it take away from the song so much that it would be better if it weren't there? Or would it seem like something's missing if it were gone?

[mikeyd23]

Serious question... I am reading a lot of "complaints" about Kirk's solos. For the most part, I never really pay attention to his solos as I'm more focused on what James's rhythm guitar is doing, or Lars on the drums. My question is: would it be better if they went the St. Anger route, and completely eliminated the solo? Does it take away from the song so much that it would be better if it weren't there? Or would it seem like something's missing if it were gone?

I wouldn't want them to go all St. Anger again and do no solos intentionally, for me Kirk's solos aren't taking away from these new songs. The problem is, they aren't really adding much for the most part either.

How about this crazy idea: Don't make a silly absolute rule like "no solos" or "solos" in regards to an album. Why don't they see what Kirk could come up with for a song, if it adds to the song in what they determine is a positive manner, have a solo. If it's not, don't have a solo.

[Kotowboy]

Yep.

HTSD suffers a bit from having a solo in every song. Sometimes they just don't fit and you tune out until it's over.

[Architeuthis]

Am I the only one who thinks Kirks solos are awesome and brilliant on this album?  I feel he's back in form and his solos make the album that much better! 

[mikeyd23]

HTSD suffers a bit from having a solo in every song. Sometimes they just don't fit and you tune out until it's over.

Yup.

Am I the only one who thinks Kirks solos are awesome and brilliant on this album?  I feel he's back in form and his solos make the album that much better! 

His solos on this are better than DM, IMO. Still not on par with anything he was laying down pre- St. Anger though.

[Kotowboy]

His solos on this are better than DM, IMO. Still not on par with anything he was laying down pre- St. Anger though.

Indeed. There's nothing as amazing as the outro to Leper Messiah or the fast second solo in Master Of Puppets.

[jakepriest]

[His solos on this are better than DM, IMO.

Not a chance. DM actually had decent solos, this album is just downright terrible in that regard.

[Kotowboy]

The solo for End Of The Line was literally just any old shit. It wasn't even on tempo.

[mikeyd23]

[His solos on this are better than DM, IMO.

Not a chance. DM actually had decent solos, this album is just downright terrible in that regard.

Eh, I'm not going to really try to sell why one turd is nicer than the other, I just think his stuff on HWTSD is better. 

[Kwyjibo]

If Tom Morello would get a guest solo spot on a Metallica song that would definitely be an improvement 

[TheCountOfNYC]

The solo for End Of The Line was literally just any old shit. It wasn't even on tempo.

I don't hate the solos on Death Magnetic like most people do (the solos on All Nightmare Long and The Unforgiven III are awesome) but even I think the solo in The End of the Line is atrocious.

[Kotowboy]

I had a thought the other day.

Since Metallica were Metallica - so since Kill Em All basically - how many people have QUIT Metallica ? Jason Newsted.

That's it.

One Person. Obviously Cliff died so it doesn't count.

Now - how many people since Megadeth's debut album have QUIT the band ?

I guess Lars is easier to get along with than Mustaine

[Zook]

I had a thought the other day.

Since Metallica were Metallica - so since Kill Em All basically - how many people have QUIT Metallica ? Jason Newsted.

That's it.

One Person. Obviously Cliff died so it doesn't count.

Now - how many people since Megadeth's debut album have QUIT the band ?

I guess Lars is easier to get along with than Mustaine

Like Jon Schaffer and Iced Earth, Mustaine fired most of his hired guns.

[Kotowboy]

And Metallica has never fired a member ( I don't count Mustaine since i'm only counting from Kill Em All. Plenty of bands go thru lineups before they get signed )...

[Train of Naught]

Thank you for this super intellectual insightful analysis.