The Metallica Thread v. Reloaded

[El Barto]

I didn't know they were doing any shows. After watching a few songs from last month's SF gig I'm sorry I found out. Man, talk about not giving a shit. Hetfield sounded great, and Trujillo's the same as always, but Ulrich and Kirk were shockingly bad. Far worse than their usual sloppiness. I'm sure it was plenty fun if you were in the audience, but on video it just makes me sad.

[cramx3]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/25/pc-zealots-seek-and-destroy-lars-ulrich-at-uc-berkeley.html

This pisses me off so much.  The first amendment only matters if you agree with it it seems.

[Randaran]

Here's my controversial Metallica opinion: Metallica hasn't released an album with consistenly good solos since Ride the Lightning. Even then, RtL has a few missteps, like in Call of Ktulu.

Master of Puppets was a huge step backwards in terms of solos; the only ones I like are James's solo in the title track, all but the main solo in Welcome Home (not-so-coincidentally my favorite track on the album), and the solos in Despicable Heroes and Orion. The remaining solos are all awful, and single-handedly turn what could have been their best album into one that is merely ok. AJFA was a step in the right direction, but the faster solos are still subpar. And don't get me started on Death Magnetic. I would rather have another album with no leads than another DM.

[Kotowboy]

Jame Hetfiel

[El Barto]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/25/pc-zealots-seek-and-destroy-lars-ulrich-at-uc-berkeley.html

This pisses me off so much.  The first amendment only matters if you agree with it it seems.

I had read what they had to say about it at Metallica.com, and it seems that The Daily Beast wants to make far more of it than Lars or the others. Honestly, it looked like 3 knuckleheads out of presumably a whole lot more that were actually protesting outside. But hey, any opportunity to rail against PC thuggery and violence.

And honestly, who's more concerning, the 3 nitwits disrupting a speaking event or the guy who wanted one of them shot?

[mikeyd23]

Here's my controversial Metallica opinion: Metallica hasn't released an album with consistenly good solos since Ride the Lightning. Even then, RtL has a few missteps, like in Call of Ktulu.

Master of Puppets was a huge step backwards in terms of solos; the only ones I like are James's solo in the title track, all but the main solo in Welcome Home (not-so-coincidentally my favorite track on the album), and the solos in Despicable Heroes and Orion. The remaining solos are all awful, and single-handedly turn what could have been their best album into one that is merely ok. AJFA was a step in the right direction, but the faster solos are still subpar. And don't get me started on Death Magnetic. I would rather have another album with no leads than another DM.

Kirk's solos on TBA are fantastic.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Here's my controversial Metallica opinion: Metallica hasn't released an album with consistenly good solos since Ride the Lightning. Even then, RtL has a few missteps, like in Call of Ktulu.

Sorry. You lost me at the bolded part. IMO, The Call of Ktulu is one of Kirk's finest solos. It floors me every time I hear it.

[Kotowboy]

IMO - Whenever James records a solo - it's one of - if not THE BEST solos on the album.

This is definitely true on Death Magnetic. Both his slow solo  and first half of the fast Suicide & Redemption solo are really good then Kirk just steams in wah-ing like crazy.

[425]

I agree. It might just be that I typically prefer slow, deliberate solos that fit in with the song to shreddy stuff, but I always appreciate James's solos, while Kirk's are often just there for me. Not to say that Kirk doesn't have some classic solos, like the One solo, but many of his are not that interesting.

[Kotowboy]

I don't think Kirk has one great solo on Death Magnetic.

[Adami]

I don't think Kirk has one great solo on Death Magnetic.

Sometimes I wonder if Kirk's solos on DM were a passive aggressive attack for not letting him do solos on St. Anger.

"Oh you guys didn't want solos and now you do? Let's see you how like these solos"

[425]

Honestly, I would be totally fine with Metallica writing an album of quality music without any guitar solos. That doesn't even register with me when thinking of "what is wrong with St. Anger?"

The Black Album without solos would still be a good album, and St. Anger with solos would still be a bad album.

[Adami]

Honestly, I would be totally fine with Metallica writing an album of quality music without any guitar solos. That doesn't even register with me when thinking of "what is wrong with St. Anger?"

The Black Album without solos would still be a good album, and St. Anger with solos would still be a bad album.

I agree about DM, I was just referencing Kirk being openly angry about not having solos.

But I also think his good solos add a lot to a song. Unforgiven without the solo, or Fade to Black etc, just loses a little.

[425]

Yeah, I got what you were referring to, I just wanted to comment on the complaint about SA lacking solos. The complaint from other people, I totally get why Kirk would complain about that.

Oh, no doubt that his good solos add to songs like Unforgiven or Fade to Black. Kirk's good solos definitely add to their songs. When he's good, he can be quite good. When he's off or apathetic, though...

[Adami]

Yeah, I got what you were referring to, I just wanted to comment on the complaint about SA lacking solos. The complaint from other people, I totally get why Kirk would complain about that.

Oh, no doubt that his good solos add to songs like Unforgiven or Fade to Black. Kirk's good solos definitely add to their songs. When he's good, he can be quite good. When he's off or apathetic, though...

I agree with all of that. Wanna hug? I think we should hug.

[Outcrier]

Me and 425 are already throwing a party but you can join us if you want.

[425]

Wow, I'm just agreeing with everyone today! I'm so unused to this! Yes, hugs, yes, parties, yes all around!

[BlobVanDam]

They should ban Kirk from the recording room, and just have Hetfield record all of the solos. Does Hetfield have a bad solo? He's not a shredder, so he writes melodic memorable lead lines, and did a lot of the awesome layered harmony sections.
I listened to DM again yesterday, and every single Kirk solo is beyond cringey. Out of time, unintentionally atonal slop. They should have trimmed every song to TBA length instead of artificially extending everything to pretend they're recording another MOP/AJFA.

[Kotowboy]

Plus whenever Kirk gets asked about the new album ( whichever album it is ) - he always talks absolute bullshit.

St. Anger was "like meshuggah"

Death Magnetic "was very middle eastern sounding with phrygian and harmonic minor riffs and solos all over it and is like And Justice For All."

"[The new album] is 90% done..." a figure he later admitted to making up on the spot.


Nothing Kirk says about a new album is ever remotely true. Either he's doing it on purpose to be a dick or he's completely fried in the head.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think Kirk knows what's going on. I just get flashbacks to Some Kind of Monster where he's bitching about people wearing Hawaiian shirts and getting frustrated because he can't learn a riff.

Metallica released the remastered version of Creeping Death. I haven't done a direct comparison as I did with The Four Horsemen, but again it doesn't sound too different to my ears.
https://soundcloud.com/officialmetallica/creeping-death-remastered

[Kotowboy]

Golly I wonder if Metallica are releasing these because they're on their own label now and own all the rights to their own music and are still paying for Orion Music and Through The Never movie ?

 



EDIT : I remember that article that said Orion and Thru The Never movie cost so much that Metallica *need* to tour every year to recoup all the losses.

Although I was confused about how the members of Metallica can be multi millionaires and how Metallica the band can be in the red ?

[Enigmachine]

St. Anger was "like meshuggah"

I can't even fathom... what even... what? Had Kirk even heard Meshuggah at the time?

Speaking of Kirk and Meshuggah, do you remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLMtuUTUDIM
Kirk soloing over Meshuggah doesn't really work.

[sneakyblueberry]

Metallica released the remastered version of Creeping Death. I haven't done a direct comparison as I did with The Four Horsemen, but again it doesn't sound too different to my ears.
https://soundcloud.com/officialmetallica/creeping-death-remastered

... just sounds louder.

[BlobVanDam]

I just did a proper comparison, and realized how much louder it is. The original was an older CD, so it had a DR of 13. This version had a DR of 7, which isn't what I'd call bad, but not what I'd call amazing. It's ok. It is a little odd that they boosted this one by so much, but not KEA. I prefer the sound of the original CD in this case, although the new one isn't a travesty.

[mikeyd23]

Jumping backwards in conversation slightly, I'd attribute Kirk's lackluster solos on DM mainly to no one being in the room that helped guide him correctly. Maybe the Kirk of the RTL, MOP, etc... era didn't need that, but it certainly seems that nowadays Kirky could use a good producer that would be willing to work toward well thought out, structured solos that add to the song, not just make noise because its "a guitar solo section".

In watching the Making Magnetic stuff it seems like Lars had a big influence on the solos, here's a crazy thought, maybe have James sit in the room as well? You know, like an actual guitar player with actual feel for the instrument? Or, even crazier still, maybe have a proper producer (cough, cough, Bob Rock) that would be willing to push Kirk to create some better stuff.

Metallica released the remastered version of Creeping Death. I haven't done a direct comparison as I did with The Four Horsemen, but again it doesn't sound too different to my ears.
https://soundcloud.com/officialmetallica/creeping-death-remastered

... just sounds louder.

Yep, just louder. I think the appeal of these packages will definitely be the previously unreleased bonus material and not so much the remasters themselves.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

MoP was one of the first albums I ever started learning to play on the guitar, so for me, the solos on it are quite memorable and cool.  I always especially liked the solo on Leper Messiah, with the arpeggios in the beginning.

[Enigmachine]

In watching the Making Magnetic stuff it seems like Lars had a big influence on the solos, here's a crazy thought, maybe have James sit in the room as well? You know, like an actual guitar player with actual feel for the instrument? Or, even crazier still, maybe have a proper producer (cough, cough, Bob Rock) that would be willing to push Kirk to create some better stuff.

I remember when in a Classic Albums episode on TBA, Bob Rock kept making Kirk do takes of the 'Unforgiven' solo. It took a while, but the final take was a really great solo. The guy is good when he's pushed, he just rests on his laurels too much.

[mikeyd23]

In watching the Making Magnetic stuff it seems like Lars had a big influence on the solos, here's a crazy thought, maybe have James sit in the room as well? You know, like an actual guitar player with actual feel for the instrument? Or, even crazier still, maybe have a proper producer (cough, cough, Bob Rock) that would be willing to push Kirk to create some better stuff.

I remember when in a Classic Albums episode on TBA, Bob Rock kept making Kirk do takes of the 'Unforgiven' solo. It took a while, but the final take was a really great solo. The guy is good when he's pushed, he just rests on his laurels too much.

Exactly, that clip is a great example... Bob literally pushes Kirk to perform the best solo he possibly can to fit and add to the song.

MoP was one of the first albums I ever started learning to play on the guitar, so for me, the solos on it are quite memorable and cool.  I always especially liked the solo on Leper Messiah, with the arpeggios in the beginning.

No doubt, I don't argue that Kirk's early stuff wasn't great, I think it was. Some of his best work came from RTL and MOP. It just seems like at this point in his career, he's not just going to walk into the studio and rip that kinda stuff out. It seems like he needs a push in the right direction, that's all.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I don't think Kirk has one great solo on Death Magnetic.

The Unforgiven III is pretty solid.

[LudwigVan]

Controversial opinion but I think Load beats the holy crap out of Death Magnetic.   Looking back on their career, they've been accused of selling out with each successive album, but I see it as the other way round. It took balls for them to move in the direction they did, and I think they knew that. Looking back at that band photo on the back of the Load album, it was very provocative. I'll be the first to admit that when I first saw that photo, I was taken aback as I'm sure a lot of fans were.  It was a big WTF moment for me. Alternica had become a big sellout. But the greasy slicked back hair, big collar print shirts, Fedora and cigars was like a little F you we'll do whatever we want to their fanbase. And that passion and sentiment showed through in the quality of the music on Load.

DM on the other hand shows me a band that has been beaten down. Beaten down by the media, the fans, the music business, their producers...to the point of submission where they were basically cowed into trying to recreate past glories in AJFA and MOP. So while the album does manage to recreate the Metallica sound of that particular era, it all comes across as manufactured, lifeless and clinical. With DM, I feel like the band was neutered. The music leaves me cold.

[BlobVanDam]

Not sure how controversial that is on DTF (since Load seems to get some like here), but I agree entirely. I relistened to DM only the other day, and I do find it consistently enjoyable for the most part, but it's a step backwards, and it sounds incredibly forced, and they just can't play that kind of music well at all any more. It sounds like it was written to pander to the thrash fans.
Load and Reload are both inconsistent albums, but the good material is excellent, and among my favourite Metallica music.

[Enigmachine]

but it's a step backwards

From St. Anger? I think that album was awful. DM was definitely a step in the right direction from there IMO.

[Kotowboy]

A step backwards creatively.

St Anger may have been like WTF? But at least it was nothing like they'd done before.

Death Magnetic felt like an attempt to revisit former glories.

[Enigmachine]

A step backwards creatively.

St Anger may have been like WTF? But at least it was nothing like they'd done before.

Death Magnetic felt like an attempt to revisit former glories.

Exactly how creative is St Anger though? I find DM to be musically a lot more interesting than SA, which to me is all shock and edginess, but nothing to say beneath all that. Just because it was new, doesn't mean it was creative.

[425]

Honestly, I think the interesting thing about DM is that it's a more mature look at their sound circa AJFA. Mature being a relative term, but still. I think it's certainly more creative than SA, because it is creative in the sense that they created good songs, while SA is creative in the Yoko Ono sense in which they did some weird stuff that made it nearly unlistenable. To me, creativity is not about novelty, it's about making good art. That can include novelty, but it doesn't necessarily need to. SA is novel and really bad. DM is not novel at all, but it's good (top 3 Metallica for me behind RTL and AJFA). So for me, the goodness of DM far outweighs its lack of novelty.