Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

Sometimes I wonder why certain people even post in this thread.

Me too.

IKR?? It's like why bother posting if you hate everything about the subject and can't find any positives at all ??

[BlobVanDam]

Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 

The problem isn't that they're action, or that they're different, the problem is that they're empty unoriginal garbage, and share little with the series they're basing it on. The writing on them really IS that bad. It doesn't hold up to even the most cursory of logic or scrutiny. A movie doesn't have to be stupidly dumb to be entertaining. There are plenty of movies that manage to blend action and plot without sacrificing either element, but that's beyond these writers. I became a fan only a few months before Star Trek 2009 came out (and hated Trek before that), and hadn't seen a single episode of TOS, and yet had a ton of problems with that movie, so that has little to do with it imo. And ID was so bad it was hard to even watch.
Moviegoers need to stop defending Hollywood rubbish as if we should all just eat crap and like it. Have some standards, people!

[Kotowboy]

Into Darkness was not so bad it was hard to watch.

It was competently filmed and made and looked good and the acting was good and it had good editing and pacing.

I don't think it has nearly as many flaws as people love to make out. It didn't need the floating barge sequence. We aren't told *WHY* Marcus wants a war and the radiation chamber needed

better dialogue and no Khan scream. Minor tweaks. Definitely not a train wreck. It's a fun movie.

[BlobVanDam]

Into Darkness was not so bad it was hard to watch.

For me it absolutely was that bad. It was cringeworthy throughout, with no logic, and no fun or entertainment value at all for me. It was Transformers 4 levels of stupid and hard to watch imo.
Star Trek 2009 was actually entertaining for what it was, and a solid foundation to build from despite its many problems, but ID was a total write-off. I've watched ST09 many times (more times than most of the rest) and always enjoyed it, but it would take a hell of a lot more than minor tweaks to salvage ID.

[King Postwhore]

I really think you are in the minority Blob.  When the review for the 2009 movie came out is got strong reviews.  ID, was not as good as the 2009 movie but it wasn't all that bad.  I feel with the new movie they may be blowing it with the marketing and the leaks.  Of late have you heard anything about the new movie?

I think they are blowing it.  In 2 months the movie comes out and the only press I've heard is Pegg complaining about the trailers.

[BlobVanDam]

I really think you are in the minority Blob.

Which is why I don't think anything of the majority....... (to word it much more nicely than my original thought)

All I know beyond the trailer is that there will be an Orion slave girl in there somewhere. I only know this because she's played by an actress who played an Orion slave girl in Star Trek Continues. No doubt the new movie won't be as good as that fan made episode either.

[Kotowboy]

There's a new trailer for Beyond this Friday. I'm nervous but excited too.

Paramount are beginning a full on marketing push at the same time.

The film is out in two months.

[Kotowboy]

But yeah - what excitement I had for Beyond pretty much evaporated ( not with the trailer - I didn't hate it ) - but with the lack of any updates.

At this point for ID - we had several trailers and tv spots and a poster etc.


I'll go see it of course but i'm nowhere near as excited as I was for ID.

[jingle.boy]

I'm with Blob.  ID was fun on the first watch, but when you got down to it, the main and sub-plots were an absolute shit-show.  It was Armageddon and Battleship level of bad.  And I'll also reiterate that the reboots are "Star Trek" in name only.  Very little about the movies resemble the ST Universe originally created by Gene, which - for good or bad - continued to live on through all of the TV shows, and the TNG films (imo).  ST09 was pretty close to feeling like a ST movie, but ID was just a sci-fi action movie in space.  It was eye-candy, and I enjoyed it for that - just as I did with Armageddon and Battleship.

[King Postwhore]

Yet the Roddenberry was was dying.  Each film drew less and less and the last year of Enterprise was a cluster at least in America when they we jumping it to different times and then canceling it.  Things needed to change.

I understand Blob wanting substance but the movies were at least to me fun to watch and that all I really cared for.  TV shows with story arcs are the perfect for great writing.  I'm pulling for the new CBS show.

[BlobVanDam]

Yet the Roddenberry was was dying.  Each film drew less and less and the last year of Enterprise was a cluster at least in America when they we jumping it to different times and then canceling it.  Things needed to change.

What needed to change is they needed fresh quality writing. They declined because they were stale and bad at that point. It's not like they were cranking out a prime example of Roddenberry's vision and people didn't want it, they weren't even doing that much properly. By the end the TNG movies were the same kind of empty action we're getting now, but without the budget to do it as well as the other big action movies. S4 of Enterprise was recycling classic Trek as a crutch. As always, it largely comes down to bad writing. Good writing solves these issues.
There are many examples of modern shows and movies that strike this balance of substance and fun action. It's not one or the other. ID didn't even manage the fun factor of 2009 to make up for it for me. Big dumb explosions inbetween having my intelligence insulted isn't my idea of fun.

[King Postwhore]

I think compared to you, I don't need to be intellectually stimulated by Star Trek Movies.  They best ones were always the action films.  I do want the stimulation in the TV series.  So if the movies writing is average, I'm ok with that.  That's 2 hours of getaway from real life, being mentally stimulated. 

[BlobVanDam]

They don't have to be super intelligent, I just don't want them so mind numbingly stupid that it makes no logical sense with even the most casual viewing. I would have to be in a vegetative state to not have the whopping huge plot holes and problems with ID not completely destroy any entertainment value for me. A movie can be fun and light without being totally braindead.

[El Barto]

Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.

Dream Theater has been stagnating ever since FII. Their fanbase hasn't changed one bit, and it's limited to a select group of prog fans. I think they need to put out a pop album full of radio friendly hits. And to be on the safe side there should be a duet with Carrie Underwood on it. Best to throw a big net. I'm sure once they expand their fanbase they'll be able to go back to playing prog and all of the new fans will stick with them.

[El Barto]

Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

[King Postwhore]

Old Trek fans need to get over the fact that the new movies are action films. 


The series in general was dying.  You can't deny that.  They needed to take a break and pull new fans in.  Doing it the old way would do nothing again and they needed to make an action packed film.  I know what you are going to say, the writing, the writing, the writing.   It's not that bad.  It's just that it's not they way the old fans want it written.

I hope this is a catalyst to have a well written TV series more in the vein of the older series.  I'm ok with all this.

Dream Theater has been stagnating ever since FII. Their fanbase hasn't changed one bit, and it's limited to a select group of prog fans. I think they need to put out a pop album full of radio friendly hits. And to be on the safe side there should be a duet with Carrie Underwood on it. Best to throw a big net. I'm sure once they expand their fanbase they'll be able to go back to playing prog and all of the new fans will stick with them.

I would say 6DOIT.  I may not like the albums like the cream of the crop.  But they are still enjoyable.  Just not at their prime, just like Star Trek.

[Adami]

Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

It would help me with the cast, since I really don't like Sylar as Spock. But it still wouldn't help with the bad plots/writing etc.


Also, I have no idea why we need other people to like/dislike what we like/dislike. If you love Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness, cool! Keep enjoying them. I personally didn't like either movie, shouldn't that be cool too? Can't I have my standards for what I want without pissing you guys off simply for not thinking it was well done?

[Kotowboy]

But this is the internet !


If someone loves something you hate - you are legally required to point and laugh then explain why they are "wrong".

[King Postwhore]

Question about the new movies. Would they be any different if it was some no-name crew, aboard the HMS Pegasus, in some completely new space universe? Most of us wouldn't have gone to see it without the ST franchise tag, but the movie itself would have been exactly the same, and either enjoyable or not based on one's personal inclinations. TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

It would help me with the cast, since I really don't like Sylar as Spock. But it still wouldn't help with the bad plots/writing etc.


Also, I have no idea why we need other people to like/dislike what we like/dislike. If you love Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness, cool! Keep enjoying them. I personally didn't like either movie, shouldn't that be cool too? Can't I have my standards for what I want without pissing you guys off simply for not thinking it was well done?

No doubt.  I'm hoping the TV series is where we all can be happy with.

[Kotowboy]

Best case scenario is that ST2017 is great and STBeyond is also great.

[Adami]

Best case scenario is that ST2017 is great and STBeyond is also great.

Is ST2017 the new TV show?

If so, I agree. I am always happy for more good Star Trek, whether or not I think it's likely.

[Kotowboy]

People working on it include :

Bryan Fuller who worked on ST Voyager.

Rod Roddenberry

Nick Meyer who directed TWOK and TUC and co-wrote TVH

Some guy who made a Star trek documentary

Alex Kurtzman.

[Adami]

People working on it include :

Bryan Fuller who worked on ST Voyager.

Rod Roddenberry

Nick Meyer who directed TWOK and TUC and co-wrote TVH

Some guy who made a Star trek documentary

Alex Kurtzman.

Oh I know. Mix of bad and good. Can't make any judgements about it till I see something.

[Kotowboy]

Kurtzman is only producing. Not writing AFAIK.

[Adami]

Kurtzman is only producing. Not writing AFAIK.

Star Trek has an uphill battle to regain my confidence. It just seems the studio doesn't get it anymore, no matter who they assign as producer/writer whatever. Good writers can easily make crap movies. Keep in mind the same dudes wrote the first and the second Cap america movie. I'll judge the product when I see the product. I won't say the show will suck or that it won't.

[Kotowboy]

First Look at Star Trek 2017.


Almost the classic logo. TOS era series ?



EDIT : Higher Res.

[Cool Chris]

TWoK worked because we understood the emotional backstory between Kirk, Spock and Khan. ST was the pretty wrapper, but the content was generic.

A movie fan could've enjoyed that movie without knowledge of Space Seed. They presented it well enough to draw the viewer in and allow them to understand Khan's desire for vengeance without tons of exposition. Same thing with the interpersonal relationships of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXpPweAooeE


Teaser for Star trek 2017.

[Adami]

I hope they're not actually just calling it "Star Trek". I'm sure they're not, but still.

[Kotowboy]

They might not have a name yet.

[King Postwhore]

A true teaser trailer. Nice.

[Kotowboy]

Comment on You Tube :

" Too much CGI "

. Golly let's go into space and film all that IN CAMERA.

[BlobVanDam]

Nothing worth scrutinizing there. That might be part of the intro they're working on, it might have been made just for the teaser, don't know if the music is part of the theme or not.
I'd rather the title of the show have a subtitle to avoid confusion, but if they want to go with just Star Trek, fans will come up with a unique name for it anyway.

I will assume that's the basic logo for now, in which case it's fine. The font is reminiscent of the original series font, with those sharp cutaways to make it look fresh, and obviously going for the modern metallic look. Is the slice through the Starfleet emblem symbolic?

[Nefarius]

It's only a teaser with some space, some music, and a logo. But it felt sooo gooooood...

The slice through the emblem might be a pure design thing, but the era after the Khitomer conference is bound to be an unstable one with many dividing agendas and opinions, so it could be a representation of rifts (diplomatic, political, social) forming. A universe on the path that divides, in a way. The only solid information is "new crews" in plural which may point to a different focus per season or a plan to follow more than one crew through the story right from the start.

I still think they are really determined to deliver some quality science fiction and I hope they actually get the chance to deliver.

Greetings...
Nef

[hefdaddy42]

I'm with Blob. 

Me too.  I saw SDID once, and I will never make that mistake again.