Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

Chekov is definitely better in the movies.

[El Barto]

Walter Koenig's folks were Russian immigrants and it shows in his normal speaking voice. He's got a slight natural Rooskie accent. And with most of the TOS characters they're all over the place. Scott can be a rough and tumble guy, or he can get the hots on some chick and act like a complete puss. Aside from Kirk, most of the crew turn into jello when there's a love interest.

And Season 2 is great. All kinds of good episodes in there.

[BlobVanDam]

S2 is definitely the most consistently good season overall, although S1 is equally good from The Menagerie onwards.
When a season kicks off with Amok Time though, I say you're off to a pretty good start. It's strange to think that there was a season of Star Trek before what that episode established. Off topic, I saw the actress who played T'Pau in an episode of The Twilight Zone a couple of days ago. Recognized that voice instantly.

[El Barto]

Watched The Ultimate Computer today, which I always found to be a very good episode, but big chunks of it were problematic. Why'd the M5 blow up the cargo ship? Why'd the M5 ignore the all important instruction it was clearly expecting about the attack being a drill? Why was the M5 so quick to cop to murdering the Excalibur crew which it had already defended as an exercise of self defense? I think they actually hit upon the answer to a lot of this, but no where near enough for it to actually register. We know that Daystrom used his own mind as part of the M5's programming, and we know that Daystrom was batshit insane. But that still doesn't add up. What the episode needed was 3 minutes of dialog relating it to The Tempest or Forbidden Planet. If they'd even just eluded to the idea that it was Daystrom's lingering but suppressed misanthropy that was fucking up the M5 it would have made a huge difference. Actually writing that it was actually internally conflicted by it's surface level morality and underlying resentment, both inherited from Daystrom, would have elevated it to one of the great episodes, I think.

I always assumed that the story was just a simple cop out. People are irrational and using a person's mind to program a computer will make it big and scary. All of the components were actually in place to make it a much more compelling thing. So did anybody actually pick up on any of this. Was it actually there and I just never noticed?

[BlobVanDam]

I always just chalk the entire episode down to computers/robots = bad, people = good, a common theme in the history of scifi in the west, especially in that era.

The story only really touches upon the general survival instinct it inherited, and how the machine lacked the compassion necessary to make decisions about human life.
It wouldn't have taken much to relate it more specifically to Daystrom's own personality traits like megalomania being imprinted upon it, but the only conclusion the episode really gave was that human emotions are a positive trait we have over a cold illogical computer to give us a sense of morality, which is fine too. It could have had more impact to contrast it specifically to one human's mind to compare man and machine, rather than the solution being yet another "Kirk nags a computer to death" scenario.

I agree, they set it up to be potentially more compelling than it ultimately was, but I don't think the episode ever intended anything beyond what was given in the final elevator conversation about computers not having emotions.

[Orbert]

I know this is a repost because I'm pretty sure I'm the one who posted it before.  But I stumbled across it on another site and I still think it's awesome so here it is again.

[hefdaddy42]

 

[El Barto]

I always just chalk the entire episode down to computers/robots = bad, people = good, a common theme in the history of scifi in the west, especially in that era.

The story only really touches upon the general survival instinct it inherited, and how the machine lacked the compassion necessary to make decisions about human life.
It wouldn't have taken much to relate it more specifically to Daystrom's own personality traits like megalomania being imprinted upon it, but the only conclusion the episode really gave was that human emotions are a positive trait we have over a cold illogical computer to give us a sense of morality, which is fine too. It could have had more impact to contrast it specifically to one human's mind to compare man and machine, rather than the solution being yet another "Kirk nags a computer to death" scenario.

I agree, they set it up to be potentially more compelling than it ultimately was, but I don't think the episode ever intended anything beyond what was given in the final elevator conversation about computers not having emotions.

Yeah, that's what I took away from it. It just seems like they threw some things in there specifically to set up something they didn't bother with. There were numerous references to Daystrom being off his nut, which in retrospect are all quite pointless. He could have been Garth of Izar nuts for all the difference that actually made on the M5. 

[PetFish]

That fake concert ad is amazing!... although I really hate the episode.  I think the premise is promising and interesting but find the language barrier to be ridiculous.  I didn't know Picard was a lefty.  Lefties scare me.

[BlobVanDam]

People are often scared of superiority.

[Orbert]

Possible repost.

[hefdaddy42]

lol

[hefdaddy42]

The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?

[Adami]

The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?

Eh.......still not a fan of moving backwards. The update where it says that it's seasonal is both good and bad. Cool in the sense that, yea, we could go anywhere, but bad in the sense that how are we going to connect to the characters if they could potentially be seasonal?

[Kotowboy]

Nick Meyer has said he wanted to set it around the time of Star trek 6.

[Kotowboy]

Paramount have said that proper full on marketing for Star Trek Beyond starts in May.

Well that's something...

[El Barto]

The New STAR TREK TV Show Will Be Set Before THE NEXT GENERATION

Obviously, until CBS makes an official statement, take this with a grain of salt.

But what do you think?

Eh.......still not a fan of moving backwards. The update where it says that it's seasonal is both good and bad. Cool in the sense that, yea, we could go anywhere, but bad in the sense that how are we going to connect to the characters if they could potentially be seasonal?

Not sure what to make of the seasonal thing. I've advocated a serial approach, which would be awesome. If they were going to take a similar approach, where each season would be set in a different era, or a different part of the galaxy, then I could see that working. At the same time, if they're talking about 24 episode seasons, then that's probably too long to invest in something transient.

[BlobVanDam]

Seasonal anthology sounds like a bad idea to me for various reasons, so I hope that's not true. I don't like the idea of setting it pre-TNG either, because they'll encounter the same problems as Enterprise, of being boxed into canon and breaking from that and pissing off fans if they deviate too far. I think the only way to go with the prime universe is post-Nemesis.

[Adami]

Seasonal anthology sounds like a bad idea to me for various reasons, so I hope that's not true. I don't like the idea of setting it pre-TNG either, because they'll encounter the same problems as Enterprise, of being boxed into canon and breaking from that and pissing off fans if they deviate too far. I think the only way to go with the prime universe is post-Nemesis.

Yea I have no idea why they wouldn't go post-Nemesis. You can get literally any (living) TNG, Voyager or DS9 person to show up, you can go nuts with technology etc.

[BlobVanDam]

Exactly. That era would allow them the entire sandbox of the prime universe with no restrictions, the ability to make it as futuristic as they want, plus they could potentially bring back any character from the TNG>VOY Trek era if they wanted to.
The era they've chosen is possibly even more restrictive than ENT, and that was plagued with continuity problems.

[El Barto]

I don't think canon is really a problem unless they want it to be. ENT screwed it up because they wanted to be gimmicky and cram in every single reference they could. The likelihood of it being a problem is largely dependent upon where it's set. If they're constantly running into the same people we've always seen then it gets complicated. If they're off in Bumfuck corners of the quadrant then not so much. They also don't have to worry about all of the creation stuff. The technology wasn't really functionally different between TOS and TNG, so it's not like they're going to be doing episodes about transporters and phasers being some grand new creation.

[BlobVanDam]

We'll see. I imagine they'll want to include all of the iconic stuff people are going to want to see to pull in viewers, where it will be all too easy to step on the toes of past series. I'm wondering what motivated the choice of that particular time period if not to cover something already established in more detail, otherwise post Nemesis would make much more sense, even if you wanted to stick to the Bumfuck Zone of the Canon-Safe Quadrant. Especially if you wanted to stick to the Bumfuck Zone of the Canon-Safe Quadrant.

And I think even if they stick to the established technology and canon, they'll likely run into a similar situation to ENT, which is that it has to look futuristic while also fitting into a now dated era. ENT always looked more futuristic than TOS, because it's hard to make a 2000s futuristic show look like it predates a 1960s futuristic show. It's not quite as bad in this situation, but we're still talking 25-30 years ago.

[hefdaddy42]

The "anthology" thing sounds like they are approaching this kind of like some newer shows such as True Detective and American Horror Story, where (in theory) you spend one season telling a detailed serialized story, but then the next season you tell a completely unrelated story.

If they can pull it off, it's an intriguing idea, and certainly something new for Trek.

[El Barto]

Like I've said, I like the anthology approach if that's what they're actually doing. I just thought it'd be better in one or two episode chunks. If a season for this is 12 episodes it might work fine. I also wouldn't necessarily assume that each series is set in the same era. My notion was to set it in all of the various eras set apart from the established narratives.

[hefdaddy42]

Like I've said, I like the anthology approach if that's what they're actually doing. I just thought it'd be better in one or two episode chunks. If a season for this is 12 episodes it might work fine. I also wouldn't necessarily assume that each series is set in the same era. My notion was to set it in all of the various eras set apart from the established narratives.

That's the impression I got from the info yesterday.

[Kotowboy]

Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.

[ZirconBlue]

Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.

I couldn't disagree more.  Serialization allows the creators to truly take advantage of the storytelling advantages of television.  Having each episode end by hitting the cosmic reset button makes it nearly impossible to have real story and character development.

[Progmetty]

The Alternative Factor, there's a decent idea buried somewhere in this episode but it's been completely overshadowed by how much the episode drags and how generally repetitive it is. I actually watched this over two viewings cause I was too bored to finish it at once.
Operation: Annihilate, I liked this one, entertaining performances for all the cast. Kirk's display of emotions over his brother's death didn't differ much than when a red shirt dies; brief signs of discomfort that's completely gone by the end of the episode heh

[Adami]

Personally I prefer episodic series where you can just watch any episode out of order like TNG.

I was a big fan of DS9 until you had to watch every episode to know what was going on.

if you miss a few episodes you've no idea what's going on.

But I doubt they want to make the show as a thing to watch from time to time whenever. Plus it's not on TV. It's online. There's no reason you can't watch them all in order.

[El Barto]

The Alternative Factor, there's a decent idea buried somewhere in this episode but it's been completely overshadowed by how much the episode drags and how generally repetitive it is. I actually watched this over two viewings cause I was too bored to finish it at once.
Operation: Annihilate, I liked this one, entertaining performances for all the cast. Kirk's display of emotions over his brother's death didn't differ much than when a red shirt dies; brief signs of discomfort that's completely gone by the end of the episode heh

Two bottom tier episodes for me. TAF was awful. The character of Lazerus and the conclusion of two people battling for the rest of eternity both had high potential, but the execution just wasn't there. A:O was alright, but not much more. I did like the fact that they all blamed McCoy for blinding Spock when Spock's the God damned science officer. Seems to me he's the one that should have known better.

[Orbert]

I don't like the art style as well here, but it has what I always thought the other one should have, which is both of them in the picture.

[hefdaddy42]

STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN Director’s Edition debuts on Blu-ray June 7th

Thoughts?

[Kotowboy]

I wouldn't mind it but i've got it on DVD twice already and that's the directors extended cut with loads of extras...


I might do.


IN OTHER NEWS : Paramount has said there is a Fan Event on May 20th and they will debut the full length STAR TREK BEYOND trailer and it will also be the start of the big marketing push

for the movie.

Looking forward to it.

[Nefarius]

If the era between ST6 and ST7 will indeed be what they are going for I applaud them.

A story is only ever going to feel more real, rich, and rooted when embedded in a well developed context (cultural, historcial, political, social, ...). Sure, going post ST10 would probably be easier and more open. But I would hardly call the era between Kirk and Picard "boxed into canon". J. J. Abrams wanted to be free of canon and the result so far was bland action and a variation of the very canon he tried to get rid of.

It's a highly interesting period in the original/prime/real Trek universe with not too many known details. It's a time with a lot going on diplomatically and politically. The Khitomer conference is over. The reality and results of its decisions and definitions just kicking in with many different interpretations of right and wrong and probably a lot of characters trying to shape and move the future into a direction favorable to their little corner of the galaxy. It's a cross country race with the start, a few known checkpoints (Sarek's diplomatical involvement, Narendra III, Tasha's crossover and Sela, the Khitomer massacre, the house of Mogh, ...), and the finish clearly defined, yet the rest is open to bring to life in a bold and creative way.

Pretty much all rumours and facts about the new show feel like an honest dedication to deliver some quality new science fiction. Of course it may very well fail but at least they seem to be determined to make Trek great again.

Which means I'm hopeful and of a positive attitude. And that's a very, very rare thing.

Greetings...
Nef

[BlobVanDam]

J. J. Abrams wanted to be free of canon and the result so far was bland action and a variation of the very canon he tried to get rid of.

Yes, but that's because JJ's and his writers are a bunch of talentless hacks who wouldn't know real scifi if it sucked them into a wormhole.

To me most of these announcements so far seem like humoring the fans, rather than being genuinely concerned about the quality of the show. A lot of people who haven't done anything of note in decades. Can they deliver? I truly hope so, but I haven't seen anything solid to make me optimistic at this stage. I want to be proven wrong of course! Trek isn't working on the big screen, so hopefully they don't screw it up where it best delivers.