Author Topic: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation  (Read 259235 times)

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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #560 on: November 16, 2013, 04:30:11 AM »
Leave my nuts out of this!  :hat

Damn Trekkie squirrels.


I remember how UPN (that's the TV station in America that was playing Enterprise F'ed the last 8 episodes but delaying and shifting the hours of the last episode that it pissed me off.  Now with the momentum of the new movies that should strike with a new TV show.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #561 on: November 16, 2013, 04:41:37 AM »
Call me crazy but I prefer waiting 3-4 years for a new movie than waiting 6 -12 months for a cliffhanger to be resolved...

You can't call yourself a scifi fan unless you love the cliffhangers!

Come on king, back me up on this one. :lol

I'm over the disappointment of waiting 3 or 4 years for something that's not very good, then realizing I have to wait another few years for the next attempt. You really can't fit much into a movie compared to a series. We've gotten about 4 hours of Trek in the past 4 years. Bleh.
And TV shows don't have boil everything down to the lowest common denominator to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible either. They can try something a bit more intelligent.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #562 on: November 16, 2013, 04:45:14 AM »
These youngster and the need for gratification right away. (Blob you're (:-P) an old soul with movies and TV)  I absolutely love the cliffhanger leading into a whole new storyline and HATE when there is nothing leading into the new season.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #563 on: November 16, 2013, 04:51:48 AM »
I LOVE the big scifi cliffhanger. That's what always makes the last episode of the season the best one to me (that plus they always save up their budget to go out with a bang).
Sure, I have to wait for it to be resolved, but I was always excited to see them throw everything out there and wonder how they were going to get out of it.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #564 on: November 16, 2013, 05:45:29 AM »
Most pay off and some don't when they resolve it too fast but for the most part all cliffhangers are awesome.


Like Locutus of Borg.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #565 on: November 16, 2013, 07:31:05 AM »
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #566 on: November 16, 2013, 07:58:03 AM »
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #567 on: November 16, 2013, 08:40:18 AM »
Can I fart glitter too???

I've seen people complain about this one, but it doesn't bother me at all. Warp drive has always been reasonably handwavy, and the warp drive leaving behind some kind of "condensation trail" is as good as any other visual effect.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #568 on: November 16, 2013, 09:32:44 AM »
To me it was an updated version of the streaks of light from the first few movies.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #569 on: November 16, 2013, 10:01:45 AM »
Can I fart glitter too???

I've seen people complain about this one, but it doesn't bother me at all. Warp drive has always been reasonably handwavy, and the warp drive leaving behind some kind of "condensation trail" is as good as any other visual effect.

Actually....I was just looking for an excuse to say, "fart glitter"...  :P
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #570 on: November 16, 2013, 10:54:52 AM »
Most pay off and some don't when they resolve it too fast but for the most part all cliffhangers are awesome.


Like Locutus of Borg.
My experience with most of the TNG cliffhangers was that the first half was always great, and the second half was a huge letdown. This was the case with almost all of their 2 parters. I don't recall many cliffhangers with DS9.

The advantage of a tv show over the movies is that you have to come up with 24 stories a year. Yes, some of them will suck, but so do some of the movies. What you can't do is make every one of them a Summer blockbuster. Half of them have to be the actual sci-fi stories that some of us old farts still want to see. We're never going to see The Immunity Syndrome in movie form, because today's audiences would hate it. Inner Light? Never happen. When you have to crank out a whole bunch of one hour stories, you're pretty much forced to include these sorts of episodes. With the cast they have now, I'd love to see these done.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #571 on: November 16, 2013, 12:16:25 PM »
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol

While I don't agree with every aspect of your list, the bolded part is IMO the most significant failing of the movie.

https://www.agonybooth.com/movies/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness_2013_Detailed_Review.aspx

Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #572 on: November 16, 2013, 12:31:47 PM »
Blob is too busy to list all the things he enjoyed about STID.

Never too busy to put it down though ;)

To be fair, I actually mentioned something I did like as well as what I didn't like in that post.

But if you're that desperate for my approval of Into Darkness-
*The actors did a great job all around, and the characters were used better, and Scotty was utilized very well this time despite not even being on the Enterprise for the bulk of the movie. He was dedicated to the ship, and drank a lot. What more could you want? :lol
*They did a good job developing the Kirk/Spock friendship (although I don't think one movie was enough for the ending to work emotionally)
*The communicators were neat.
*The CG/effects looked great, especially at creating the look and feel of future Earth.
*There was a Doohan on the Enterprise again.

I'd have to watch it again to remember what else I liked. All I'm coming up with is things I hated. :lol

While I don't agree with every aspect of your list, the bolded part is IMO the most significant failing of the movie.

https://www.agonybooth.com/movies/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness_2013_Detailed_Review.aspx

I find that review to be utterly hilarious.   

I don't think most people realize just how HUGE "the nostalgia factor" influence can be.     We live in an era where things are held under a microscope.   NEVER IN CINEMA HISTORY has Sci-Fi been held up to "the burden of proof" as it is in the 21st Century.    Then...we look at the classics through rose tinted glasses, not even realizing that *IF* that same movie had been released today, it would be every bit as picked apart, dissected and criticized....possibly to an even greater degree.

I think it would be an interesting eye-opener to a lot of people if someone with good creative writing skills were to do a mock up (or...heck...not so 'mock up') negative review of Wrath of Khan.   Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #573 on: November 16, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »
  Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....

Been meaning to say this for a while now.


The trouble is - everyone online nowadays wants to be a critic and the everything leans towards negativity.

Most "reviews" on YouTube are why something is shit and not why it's great.

Someone has just done " Everything wrong with Back To The Future " video. Not only is it nearly 30 years late but most of the stuff is *extremely* nitpicky.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #574 on: November 16, 2013, 04:50:43 PM »
^^^^^^^^^

Absolutely....   ST4 is considered by many MANY people to be in the top 3 all time best ST films.    And it is a fantastic film...I LOVE it.   But I could certainly find a ton of things wrong with it if I really wanted to.

(IB4 "WTF? Another time travel story?  Couldn't they come up with anything original???"   ::) )
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #575 on: November 16, 2013, 05:24:32 PM »
Yeah I used to hear " haha Star Trek only does Time Travel movies " a lot :/


Even if we count the 12 movies we have now - time travel is a MAJOR plot point in Voyage Home, 2009  and First Contact.

I suppose you could include Generations as well but the nexus is more of a hub and don't see it as an out-and-out time travel story.

When you are in the Nexus - time does not exist and you can exit when/whereever you want so it's not " A Time Travel Story".

So even if you count Generations it's 4 out of 12. That makes 66% of Star Trek movies that have no time travel.

But time travel is kind of one of the staples of Sci Fi anyway. I'd be more surprised if a trek movie *never* used it.


- - - - - - - - - - -

I'd like one of those " Everything wrong with " videos to do Star Trek II : The Wrath Of Khan and see how it holds up to the scrutiny of someone who is only out to find fault with it.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #576 on: November 16, 2013, 06:35:48 PM »
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #578 on: November 16, 2013, 06:40:50 PM »
Nemesis ! Jammin Dude's fave Star Trek film EVAR !!!  :angel: :angel:

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #579 on: November 16, 2013, 07:31:50 PM »
Nemesis ! Jammin Dude's fave Star Trek film EVAR !!!  :angel: :angel:

Oh dear god....    :hurl:
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #580 on: November 16, 2013, 07:36:52 PM »
I've never understood the point of that B4 character. Initially I thought it was a kinda hommage/copout in the vein of The Search For Spock. You got a body but no brain, and then Data uploads his mind into Bones, err, B4. But then at the end B4 is as retarded as ever.
Or was B4 singing Data's tune at the end supposed to mean he was slowly absorbing the new programming?
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #581 on: November 16, 2013, 09:37:48 PM »
I've never understood the point of that B4 character. Initially I thought it was a kinda hommage/copout in the vein of The Search For Spock. You got a body but no brain, and then Data uploads his mind into Bones, err, B4. But then at the end B4 is as retarded as ever.
Or was B4 singing Data's tune at the end supposed to mean he was slowly absorbing the new programming?

Yes, that's what was happening. We thought that he didn't take Data's programming, then at the end he recalls the song, showing that he's retaining at least something of Data, which will perhaps expand over time, but I guess still become his own character had they continued somehow.

I find that review to be utterly hilarious.   

I don't think most people realize just how HUGE "the nostalgia factor" influence can be.     We live in an era where things are held under a microscope.   NEVER IN CINEMA HISTORY has Sci-Fi been held up to "the burden of proof" as it is in the 21st Century.    Then...we look at the classics through rose tinted glasses, not even realizing that *IF* that same movie had been released today, it would be every bit as picked apart, dissected and criticized....possibly to an even greater degree.

I think it would be an interesting eye-opener to a lot of people if someone with good creative writing skills were to do a mock up (or...heck...not so 'mock up') negative review of Wrath of Khan.   Because I promise you...with the right outlook, critical eye and negative POV, you could do a write up very similar to this one for any of the classic ST movies.    WoK...TVH....

I actually only first saw the Star Trek movies very shortly before ST:2009 came out, and it still left me initially very disappointed. I think this is just trying to explain away negative response to the new movies, especially given that a lot of the criticisms have more to do with not being internally consistent and coherent stories, and not because the Enterprise doesn't have the correct speed stripe, or because Kirk's eyes are the wrong colour. And a lot of older fans did like the new movies anyway, so it's a silly generalization.

Both of the new movies failed miserably with the main antagonists of the movie, and even the basic plot points, which puts them on very bad footing to excuse their other faults.
If the overall movie succeeds and endures, then people are going to be more willing to excuse the minor nitpicks, and even consider them endearing mistakes that add character to the film. That's much harder when those errors affect the movie so adversely.
I've never seen anyone claim that these older movies are fault-free, or hate a new movie over trivial nitpicks. It really comes down to what the problems are, and in what way they affect the movie.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #582 on: November 18, 2013, 12:19:36 PM »
Cracked pointed something out I hadn't considered this morning:

Quote
Later, Kirk goes and gets himself killed by radiation exposure while fixing the Enterprise's engines. All hope would seem to be lost, but Doctor McCoy, in a valiant attempt to discover the greatest deus ex machina in movie history, learns that Khan's genetically enhanced blood can cure death. Spock chases after Khan and rage pinches him into submission so he can bring his swarthy friend back from the great green booty palace in the sky.

What They Should Have Done:

Apparently the entire Enterprise crew forgot they had 72 other people with the exact same genetic enhancements as Khan just lounging in stasis on their own freaking ship. If Khan's blood could cure Kirk, so could any of theirs. There was no reason for them to risk waiting for Spock to capture Khan. We mean, yeah, it worked: They did manage to save Kirk with Khan's blood, but that's like waiting for the fire department to come put out your grease fire even though you're holding 72 fire extinguishers.

Read more: https://www.cracked.com/article_20659_5-clever-movie-schemes-you-didnt-realize-were-stupid.html#ixzz2l1hea099
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #583 on: November 18, 2013, 12:23:12 PM »
A deus Ex Machina is something that crops up magically at the end without being introduced previously. ( Matrix 3 )

Khan's blood is mentioned and used for the same purpose at least twice before the end of the film.

It's at the start of the film and again in the middle before finally being used at the end.

It's hardly a Deus Ex Machina.



Also Bob Orci has been asked this same thing a lot and his reply was that there was no way of knowing whether one of the other 72 Eugenics blood had the same properties. And would they wanna risk having TWO psychotic supermen on the loose ?


" Get me a cryo tube now - keep him in an induced coma. " - Bones was very clear about that.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #584 on: November 18, 2013, 12:27:23 PM »
In other news - The Motion Picture was on last night and I actually thoroughly enjoyed it. Contrary to it's reputation I actually found it quite tense and exciting at times.

Also that Karl Urban is simply *perfect* at Bones. I highly doubt any other actor could have nailed him quite so well.


Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #585 on: November 18, 2013, 01:00:56 PM »
Also, he has cute hair.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #586 on: November 18, 2013, 01:01:44 PM »
:lol...

I made this thing using speech on my iMac . https://soundcloud.com/davidoakes/2-1


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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #587 on: November 18, 2013, 01:29:59 PM »
Is that your voice?
"We spend most of our lives convinced we’re the protagonist of the story, but we rarely realize that we’re just supporting characters in everybody else’s story. Nobody thinks about you as much as you do."

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #588 on: November 18, 2013, 01:36:15 PM »
:lol

No it's the voice of iMac speech or whatever I used. I wrote out the words though.

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #589 on: November 18, 2013, 01:56:28 PM »
It was so English-y!   :lol
"We spend most of our lives convinced we’re the protagonist of the story, but we rarely realize that we’re just supporting characters in everybody else’s story. Nobody thinks about you as much as you do."

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #590 on: November 18, 2013, 01:57:09 PM »
Yeah i loved the pronunciations so I had to record it 😌

Offline rumborak

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #591 on: November 18, 2013, 02:42:58 PM »
A deus Ex Machina is something that crops up magically at the end without being introduced previously. ( Matrix 3 )

Khan's blood is mentioned and used for the same purpose at least twice before the end of the film.

It's at the start of the film and again in the middle before finally being used at the end.

It's hardly a Deus Ex Machina.



Also Bob Orci has been asked this same thing a lot and his reply was that there was no way of knowing whether one of the other 72 Eugenics blood had the same properties. And would they wanna risk having TWO psychotic supermen on the loose ?


" Get me a cryo tube now - keep him in an induced coma. " - Bones was very clear about that.

I'm not sure there is an official definition of deus ex machina, but whatever you want to call the plot element, it marred the movie. In fact, the fact that they set it up earlier in the movie made it really predictable, and when Kirk died, I really couldn't connect at all, because all I was waiting for was Bones to rush in and revive him. When Spock died in the original movies, he was dead for good, and I couldn't have guessed in my wildest dreams they would use the Genesis planet to bring back his body. So, I connected with his death.

Well, the fact that the new movie was redoing an existing scene in which the dying person returns later, didn't exactly help either. Once the scene started I was immediately wondering how they would bring Kirk back, and the Khan blood was in-your-face obvious.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #592 on: November 18, 2013, 09:07:35 PM »
Cracked pointed something out I hadn't considered this morning:

Quote
Later, Kirk goes and gets himself killed by radiation exposure while fixing the Enterprise's engines. All hope would seem to be lost, but Doctor McCoy, in a valiant attempt to discover the greatest deus ex machina in movie history, learns that Khan's genetically enhanced blood can cure death. Spock chases after Khan and rage pinches him into submission so he can bring his swarthy friend back from the great green booty palace in the sky.

What They Should Have Done:

Apparently the entire Enterprise crew forgot they had 72 other people with the exact same genetic enhancements as Khan just lounging in stasis on their own freaking ship. If Khan's blood could cure Kirk, so could any of theirs. There was no reason for them to risk waiting for Spock to capture Khan. We mean, yeah, it worked: They did manage to save Kirk with Khan's blood, but that's like waiting for the fire department to come put out your grease fire even though you're holding 72 fire extinguishers.

Read more: https://www.cracked.com/article_20659_5-clever-movie-schemes-you-didnt-realize-were-stupid.html#ixzz2l1hea099

.......and that's another fail added to the list of plotholes in the movie.

And it's totally a deus ex machina. An off the cuff mention of it earlier in the movie didn't make it any less lazy or convenient. It's the kind of thing they make up at the end of writing the script as a magical solution to the story, then they just tack in a scene earlier in the movie so the average person thinks "oh but with my limited attention span I vaguely recall it being mentioned at some point in the movie, so that makes it clevah".
It otherwise had pretty much nothing to do with the rest of the movie, and made no sense to begin with, either with existing canon, or even with itself. This is the kind of thing that defies even the soft science fiction reality of Star Trek, and devolves into nothing but lazy fantasy.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #593 on: November 18, 2013, 09:33:14 PM »
Off the cuff :lol

Blob has conveniently forgotten the ENTIRE hospital scene at the start of the movie where Khan cures that officer's girl so that he will in return blow up Section 31 - resulting in the conference of Star-fleet officers which kills Pike and allows Kirk to ask Marcus to go on a revenge mission.


Totally an off the cuff mention.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #594 on: November 18, 2013, 09:35:59 PM »
Oh right there was also a scene where Khan is like "I can magically heal your kid if you become a terrorist".

Roberto Orci/Alex Kurtzman with another home run! Move over Citizen Kane.

Also he has magical blood that can simultaneously cure radiation poisoning and death. Seems legit.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.