Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[rumborak]

I still think they could retie it to the prime u universe if they ever wanted. They've traveled back in time before (by going around the sun), just do it again. Has been done before many times, but it could be a classic "fix the past" episode.

[BlobVanDam]

I still think they could retie it to the prime u universe if they ever wanted. They've traveled back in time before (by going around the sun), just do it again. Has been done before many times, but it could be a classic "fix the past" episode.

I never much liked it when they did that, because it felt too convenient, although TVH is my favourite TOS movie, so I guess I could deal with it.

Plus if their motivation was to "fix" anything, it might not look respectful to the new timeline, and might not work too well with the new fans. With ST11, the change of timeline was accidental.

But it's scifi. There are so many possibilities along the same lines that could work. I just don't want something really fanwanky and convoluted, like a bad fan film idea.

[Kotowboy]

Roberto Orci on Trek 3 :

"My hope is that these movies have earned us the right to show another side of Star Trek that we have not fully shown yet. A genuine sci-fi mystery; that would be nice.

The third one — and this is based slightly on fan response — the third one should just be unpredictable with as many new elements as possible.”

[BlobVanDam]

Great to hear that, although long before the second movie they said something similar about it not being a typical enemy and being more scifi-ish, and it ended up not only being the typical enemy, but a recycled one.

And looking at his writing credits, and having seen a lot of things he's written for, I have absolutely zero confidence in his ability to even write science fiction.

But we'll see!

[Kotowboy]

I loved the idea for (2009) - a new timeline was a genius way to keep the original canon intact and still do something new.

Plus having Prime Spock be the catalyst was basically saying - we're doing our thing - but it wouldn't have been possible without

the original series.

[BlobVanDam]

I also thought that was a good way to start fresh, without doing a hard reboot and ignoring what came before, and without feeling like a shoehorned cameo from an original cast member for the sake of it, as sooooooo many reboots do. Either way, there's just no way you can reboot something so big without pissing people off, but all things considered, I think they achieved about best case there.

I just had a few problems with their execution in that one, especially a lot of the material they cut that gave a lot of important context and exposition that I feel was important to the story. They were small, but important details, and it showed that there was more focus on explosions and action than on character depth and plot cohesion. Overall I did think ST11 was a strong action movie though.

I had a lot more issues with Into Darkness though, even putting aside the Khan thing.

[Kotowboy]

I wish that Benicio got the job. Not to take anything away from Benedict but I think Del Toro would have been an amazing Khan.

[BlobVanDam]

I wish that Benicio got the job. Not to take anything away from Benedict but I think Del Toro would have been an amazing Khan.

As superficial as it may seem on some level, that would have made a huge difference to me in accepting the character as Khan. One of the other guys apparently considered for the part was a guy named Demian Bichir, and seeing some clips of him, I could he could have pulled it off spookily well without feeling like a parody or clone.
First clip I came across on Youtube. Tell me he would not have made a kickass Khan-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byU4uVOcmTo

I strongly get the impression JJ intentionally chose someone completely different (imo wrong) for the part just so he could try to keep the identity of Khan a secret as long as possible.

[Kotowboy]

I don't know why they kept Admiral Marcus a secret until the film came out.

Did they think that Marcus = Carol Marcus = Khan ?


That guy you mentioned even looks & sounds a bit like Montalban. You can do photoshop a wee bit - you should take his face and put it in a screen shot of space seed with the long hair etc.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know why they kept Admiral Marcus a secret until the film came out.

Did they think that Marcus = Carol Marcus = Khan ?

I think it was a combination of trying to hide that link, and also having her there to throw people off the scent with her resemblance to the character in Where No Man Has Gone Before. Just look at that hairstyle. I think that was intentional.

That guy you mentioned even looks & sounds a bit like Montalban.

Yeah. He has the sharp eyes and prominent facial structure, and of course the accent. But I think he would have had great presence and delivery as Khan without needing to force it. I think casting him as Khan could have made me a little giddy.

[Kotowboy]

They should have known the game was up when they started casting latino actors to play " John Harrison "


Apparently John Harrison was the name of the crewman from Space Seed who didn't have a speaking part.


Another clue for those hardcore trekkers out there.

[BlobVanDam]

They should have known the game was up when they started casting latino actors to play " John Harrison "

Yeah.

Ok, here's my two second cruddy Photoshop of Khan. He would have much more suited TWOK Khan, rather than the sillier looking TOS Khan, but I couldn't be bothered finding pics that lined up right.

[Kotowboy]

Not bad !


It makes me really happy that all of the TNG main cast still get on famously and hang out regularly. It would be so sad if you found out they all hated each other in reality

[Kotowboy]

Can we at least agree that the worst thing about the JJ movies is Simon Pegg ? 


He acts nothing like Doohan did at all - and he's just Pegg being Pegg with a rubbish Scots accent.

[chknptpie]

I like Simon Pegg. I actually don't think I have any issues with the cast.

[BlobVanDam]

Can we at least agree that the worst thing about the JJ movies is Simon Pegg ? 


He acts nothing like Doohan did at all - and he's just Pegg being Pegg with a rubbish Scots accent.

Sorry, gotta go with Chekov as the worst. Complete throwaway joke character with a horrible parody accent and absolutely zero resemblance to the character at all.

I don't mind the casting of Pegg, and while he was mostly a gag in the first movie, I thought his character was used well in the second movie.

Sulu wasn't great either, but I'm fairly indifferent to that one.

[Kotowboy]

It seems like Kirk, Spock & Bones were all perfectly cast and acted and the other 4 were all name only - Sulu came closest to the original Sulu and it would be cool to see him get his own ship in one of the movies.

I like whoever played Old Spock. He looked and sounded identical to the original.

[BlobVanDam]

It seems like Kirk, Spock & Bones were all perfectly cast and acted and the other 4 were all name only - Sulu came closest to the original Sulu and it would be cool to see him get his own ship in one of the movies.

I don't think new Sulu was at all similar, but I agree on Kirk/Spock/Bones, although Bones felt like a good clone, rather than feeling quite as natural as Kirk and Spock, who I think managed to pull off the characters without trying to imitate them exactly. I don't think they could have cast Kirk and Spock better though, and probably Bones too.

I like whoever played Old Spock. He looked and sounded identical to the original.

[Kotowboy]

I thought Karl had the perfect amount of imitation vs acting...

I really can't imagine anyone else playing Bones as well as he does and whenever he has a line - it just IS Bones.

But yeah - they could have *at least* given Anton Yelchin the same hair as Walter Koenig. WHat's up with his curly quiff thing ?

[BlobVanDam]

I thought Karl had the perfect amount of imitation vs acting...

I really can't imagine anyone else playing Bones as well as he does and whenever he has a line - it just IS Bones.

He was walking a fine line of imitating vs acting for me, although at no point did I think it wandered into parody. Overall I thought he did very well, but his character was a bit less natural than Spock and Kirk. But he was still great.

But yeah - they could have *at least* given Anton Yelchin the same hair as Walter Koenig. WHat's up with his curly quiff thing ?

I hate that curly noodle hair. The '60s Beatles mop probably didn't look too good on a modern character, but I'm sure they still could have captured the essence of the character's look.
I know, Chekov isn't the most crucial or iconic character to capture a likeness of, but it doesn't even look like they tried to me.

[sueño]

I think that Karl is a better actor in general than the original Bones.  Therefore,  we have a good actor enbodying a not very complex character created by a lesser actor.

A unique situation to say the least...I think Karl does a nice job of capturing it all.

[Kotowboy]

I think Karl is a great actor - just from his facial expressions whilst other characters are speaking. 

I often watch him when other characters are talking just to watch his reactions

[Orbert]

I agree.  Karl Urban is great in pretty much anything I've seen him in, and the key is his expressions and reaction, and all the acting he does other than speaking.  You really buy into his characters, because they have actual... character.

[Kotowboy]

I've said it before but I love how aliens in Star Trek basically just assume anything they don't understand is a weapon which is *obviously* going to be used against their planet.

Genesis Device ? Obviously a weapon to destroy the Klingons !

Even if said device is to be used for the most peaceful and humanitarian reasons - nope - secret Federation weapon to destroy alien races.

The Ferengi were used the most for this on TNG. They were really irritating in good way.

Anything Enterprise did whilst Ferengi were around was obviously an attack on them

Like that episode where Riker was in charge of that old starship and because Enterprise was *firing* on it -

- it obviously contained something very valuable indeed. Certainly not a training exercise.

I loved when they did that in TNG because it was irritating - but also really entertaining at the same time.

They knew how to write annoying aliens that jump to the wrong conclusions and then get their comeuppance at the end.

[chknptpie]

I loved KU in Xena

[Kotowboy]

I loved KU in Xena

I bet he was enjoying it too.

[rumborak]

Just thinking of it now, was there any explanation in the movie why Carol Marcus had a British accent while Admiral Marcus is an American?

[Kotowboy]

In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

[El Barto]

Just thinking of it now, was there any explanation in the movie why Carol Marcus had a British accent while Admiral Marcus is an American?

Alternate timeline, duh.

I actually thought both Sulu and Chekov were pretty reasonable in the second movie. Chekov was always supposed to be the kid on the show, and while he/they probably went a bit overboard with the insecurity, he still fit the same role. As for Sulu, it was always suggested that he was far more of a badass than was ever let on during TOS. The original Kirk knew that and had no qualms about leaving him in charge even when they were at war with the Klingons. Were it not for Shatner, that would have been developed much sooner. I was glad when the knew movie gave him the opportunity to be that badass.

[Kotowboy]

Someone designed a JJ-style Excelsior.

Would be cool to see Sulu be in charge of it at some point.


Of course - the original Excelsior was 2x Bigger than Enterprise-A - which would make a JJ Excelsior as big as Uss Vengeance.


They could write it in as " Making a ship as powerful as Vengeance - but not a warship. To correct the errors of Khan and Adm. Marcus " .

[BlobVanDam]

In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?

I loved KU in Xena

[Kotowboy]

In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?

Apparently so. Also there was a cut scene involving Kirk asking Uhura to patch Scotty thru the ship to his communicator.

That would have saved all those snide " fnar fnar - so you can just phone people across light years now ? "

[Kotowboy]

I saw another of those " Derpy Derp everyfing wrong with into darkness " type videos

and most of them were common sense or explained in the film.

or just nit picking to the extreme.. [ like - having the voice from a previous scene carry on in the next scene - that's not a mistake - that's an artistic / narrative decision. ]

I could find more things wrong with his video than he found "wrong" with the film.

[BlobVanDam]

In a deleted scene it was revealed that in this new timeline - Admiral Marcus moved to London and Carol grew up there instead.

Does that mean there were deleted scenes, but they didn't include them on the DVD/Bluray?

Apparently so. Also there was a cut scene involving Kirk asking Uhura to patch Scotty thru the ship to his communicator.

That would have saved all those snide " fnar fnar - so you can just phone people across light years now ? "

To me it was pretty clear even without being explicitly shown that it was being patched through the ship. That was just common sense to me. Same way a cell phone works. It only has a range in the tens of km's/miles, and yet you could call anyone from it.
I think there are a ton of legit issues with Into Darkness, but that is not one of them.

[Kotowboy]

Just wondering. Did you like Into Darkness more than you disliked it ?


Secondly : request for new Star Trek thread called

"The United Threaderation of Planets."