Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Orbert]

I always like The Motion Picture.  I still like it.  Of course, I remember when it was The Motion Picture, the only one.  Seeing Star Trek on the big screen was a dream come true for many fans.

But yeah, I appreciate what they were going for with TMP, even if I did understand the criticism that it was all talk, no action.

[Kotowboy]

I re-watched it recently and I didn't really find it all that slow. It breathes and takes it's time rather than beating you over the head with boredom.

[jammindude]

I re-watched it recently and I didn't really find it all that slow. It breathes and takes it's time rather than beating you over the head with boredom.

I always viewed the "I hate inspections" quote from Kirk at the beginning of WoK as a validation to the fans who bitched incessantly about the inspection scene from TMP going on and on and on and on..............................and ON and ON and ON..........................AND *ON AND ON AND ON*****

 

That was the only part to me that dragged a bit....but my wife says she even loves THAT scene, so who am I to disagree?

[Kotowboy]

I don't remember that scene specifically. All I can recall is Kirk boarding Enterprise and then telling Decker to F off and then leaving spaceport

[jammindude]

I don't remember that scene specifically. All I can recall is Kirk boarding Enterprise and then telling Decker to F off and then leaving spaceport

It's when they are inspecting the actual ship.   The original video release cut the scene down quite a bit, but in the original theatrical edition, they flew around the ship just to see the Enterprise on the big screen and it just kept going and going.   It went on for maybe 3-5 minutes....but in a movie where *nothing is happening* and you're  just looking at a ship...it feels more like 15. 

[Kotowboy]

Oh that bit. Yeah I actually timed it when I watched it last and it's pretty much 5 minutes.

I love seeing 1701 though - so it's all good.

But I thought you meant inspecting the inside of the ship.

[El Barto]

I probably rank TMP number 3, overall. The original release sucked, but the revised edition made it all make sense. Only complaints are that the flyby took too long, and they didn't elaborate more on Spock's situation. Still the Kirk/Decker rivalry was excellent.

In looking for my previous rankings, I found this which I posted a year or two ago. Funny when you rediscover interesting ideas.

Here's what really sucks.  Mankind,  being relatively primitive yet insatiably curious, sends out a bunch of rather crude probes with the incredibly naive instructions to "learn all that is learnable."  By the God-damnedest stroke of luck,  one of them stumbles through a black hole and pops up in front of advanced aliens who are sympathetic to it's cause,  and build into it the capability of actually fulfilling it's dramatically overambitious mission.  It spends 200 years traveling the galaxy,  destroying everything it encounters while accumulating a library of data so large it's unfathomable.  Not only does it possess the combined knowledge of the galaxy,  it's steadfastly determined to see every bit of that data delivered back to Earth.  And when it's finally time to unload all of that information, it up and changes it's mind and disappears off to God knows where,  never to be seen again.  If it had actually done what it was supposed to do, we could have been on par with The Q by the time TNG rolled around.

In the 23rd century,  Will Decker is history's biggest asshole. 

[Kotowboy]

I remember that post

TOS Rankings

1.Khan
2.Country
3.Voyage
4.TMP
5.Spock
6.Frontier

TNG Rankings

1.Generations ( deal with it )
2.First Contact
3.Nemesis
4.Insurrection

Nu Trek

1.2009
2.Galaxy Quest
3.Into Darkness

[BlobVanDam]

Meh. I've always liked it. As you say - it's funny that people bash nu-trek for being all flash and action but they also bash TMP for being all story and character.

TMP is easily better than Search For Spock, Final Frontier & Insurrection in my book.

People don't bash TMP for being all story and character. People bash it for having little of that either. It's an episode padded out to the most plodding, dull, Trek ever.

Spending 10 minutes to show off ILM's model of the Enterprise does nothing to further the plot or characters. There are many other similar scenes that drag down the movie, just showing slow space shots. The original series had a lot of adventure, and fun, and action, but instead audiences got 2001: A Space Odyssey starring Kirk and friends.

Pacing a movie goes both ways. If you don't give the story room to breathe, you can lose emotion and reality (which I think happens a lot in the JJ Trek), but if you draw it out too much, you can lose cohesion and interest. Editing is all about knowing the exact right length to make a shot to achieve its purpose.

To me nu-Trek and TMP are both extremes, with the ideal Trek movie being somewhere inbetween.

[jammindude]

I probably rank TMP number 3, overall. The original release sucked, but the revised edition made it all make sense. Only complaints are that the flyby took too long, and they didn't elaborate more on Spock's situation. Still the Kirk/Decker rivalry was excellent.

In looking for my previous rankings, I found this which I posted a year or two ago. Funny when you rediscover interesting ideas.

Here's what really sucks.  Mankind,  being relatively primitive yet insatiably curious, sends out a bunch of rather crude probes with the incredibly naive instructions to "learn all that is learnable."  By the God-damnedest stroke of luck,  one of them stumbles through a black hole and pops up in front of advanced aliens who are sympathetic to it's cause,  and build into it the capability of actually fulfilling it's dramatically overambitious mission.  It spends 200 years traveling the galaxy,  destroying everything it encounters while accumulating a library of data so large it's unfathomable.  Not only does it possess the combined knowledge of the galaxy,  it's steadfastly determined to see every bit of that data delivered back to Earth.  And when it's finally time to unload all of that information, it up and changes it's mind and disappears off to God knows where,  never to be seen again.  If it had actually done what it was supposed to do, we could have been on par with The Q by the time TNG rolled around.

In the 23rd century,  Will Decker is history's biggest asshole. 

And actually...that's what makes Shatner's idea of it being "The Birth of the Borg" an even better idea.     Would have made a great idea for a film of its own...but I doubt they'd want to give Shat credit for the idea.

[rumborak]

In general I think a "beginning of the Borg" could make an interesting movie. Problem is, Voyager kind of established they originate in the Delta quadrant. No Starfleet to be seen, so you couldn't make a classic ST movie out of it.
Then again, I would love to see someone have the balls and make a ST with no Starfleet in it, just the plain rise of the Borg in their home territory. Fuck, you could make a series out of it. And given the Google Glasses of late, viewers would definitely buy into a show of a race that goes to the ultimate extreme of it and in the process loses their own humanity.

Damn, I should write a script.

[El Barto]

And actually...that's what makes Shatner's idea of it being "The Birth of the Borg" an even better idea.     Would have made a great idea for a film of its own...but I doubt they'd want to give Shat credit for the idea.

A couple of problems there. On several occasions the Borg were established canonically as being around long before the events in TMP. Coincidentally, I watched one of them just today during lunch. The Vaudwar (VOY) had dealings with them in our 15th century. At that point they were just getting started. Also, the events of FC also contradict that. The Borg existed before Zephram Cocharan's test flight; hence their attempt to send a signal to the Borg of that century.

[BlobVanDam]

The idea of V'ger and the Borg being connected is just the usual novel fanwank to me.

[jammindude]

I still think it's cool.   

[El Barto]

The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

Still, TMP was made 15 years before the idea for the Borg was ever conceived.

A similar bit of fanwank crossover is the idea that Trellaine was a prototypical Q.

[BlobVanDam]

The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.

[rumborak]

Well, the Borg behavior patterns were occasionally a bit nonsensical. Them not intervening when other lifeforms step onto their ships made for good TV, but was utter nonsense.

[jammindude]

The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.

I disagree.  I think if you think like the Borg...they would view it as a machine needing another machines help.    Granted, it seems they would want to assimilate rather than just send it on its merry way...but we only see that attitude in relation to organic lifeforms.   

[BlobVanDam]

The scenario I had always envisioned was that it was the Borg who repaired V'Ger and sent it on it's merry way. As I recall, Spock's description of the aliens who repaired it bare a striking resemblance to the Borg, and they both share a similar goal.

I would wonder why the Borg would do such a thing though. I know they've been a bit inconsistent, but typically they ignore technology that is beneath them (and I'm sure a 20th century earth probe would be beneath the Borg in an era of warp capable civilizations).
The only scenario I could think of is that they wanted to see where it came from, in the hopes of finding a more advanced civilization.

I disagree.  I think if you think like the Borg...they would view it as a machine needing another machines help.    Granted, it seems they would want to assimilate rather than just send it on its merry way...but we only see that attitude in relation to organic lifeforms.   

I don't recall ever seeing altruistic behaviour from the Borg. It just doesn't fit with their directive, and would be imperfect behaviour for their goals.

But as rumby said, the Borg were all over the place.

[Kotowboy]

Do the Borg exist after the First Contact time line ?

Does the Borg Queen just live on - whatever happens ?

[BlobVanDam]

Do the Borg exist after the First Contact time line ?

Does the Borg Queen just live on - whatever happens ?

What do you mean? They just appoint a new queen I suppose, since she's in several Voyager episodes, even after dying in FC.

[Kotowboy]

Is it the same actress ? Do they explain it ? Is it a new Queen with the same face or the same Queen ?

[BlobVanDam]

Is it the same actress ? Do they explain it ? Is it a new Queen with the same face or the same Queen ?

It's only Alice Krige in Endgame. It's a different actress in every other appearance, but she's made up to look exactly the same, so most people wouldn't notice the difference. I think they wanted the familiarity of FC.
I'm not sure if they explain it. But I think it is just a matter of appointing a new Queen. I'm sure it's explained on memory alpha, but I can't be bothered checking.

[PowerSlave]

https://io9.com/the-star-trek-tng-crew-looks-amazing-in-original-serie-1333833842

Somebody photoshopped the TNG crew into TOS uniforms.

[Kotowboy]

Not bad

[Kotowboy]

On Twitter :

William Shatner has tweeted to me 3 times.

Gates McFadden has tweeted to me 3 times.

Chris Doohan ( Son of "Scotty" actor James Doohan) has tweeted me & follows me too.

Whoever runs the " Star Trek Continues " twitter account often replies also.

[The King in Crimson]

Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

[Kotowboy]

Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

Yes he does.

Just like everyone else on the planet

[King Postwhore]

Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

No...........he...........tweets...........one..........word..........at a time!

[Kotowboy]

Does William Shatner tweet one word at a time?

No...........he...........tweets...........one..........word..........at a time!

Everyone speaks one word at a time

[rumborak]

Watching The Undiscovered Country right now. One thing that never made sense: Why would Starfleet dismantle their starbases along the Neutral Zone just because the Klingon Empire is about to collapse? If anything, given the likely chaos it would be smart to maintain the bases until the situation has settled.
Another thing that I don't get it is, why would the President listen to Colonel West's theory of attacking the Klingons, while the Romulan ambassador is still standing there?!

[Kotowboy]

I had a thought : do I like the JJ movies so much because I spent my whole life watching the TOS crew in movies and

it's that crew I really like.

Does that make sense ? Like - I love those characters and I'm happy to have them back again albeit with different actors.

I hope they do six of these with this cast

[El Barto]

Probably. That's the one thing I like about it. At the same time, I also like the ST universe, hence my fondness for DS9 and VOY, and that's something Abrams and his minions shit all over; hence part of my disgust.

[Kotowboy]

Voyager was when the rot started to set in...

And how did JJ shit all over Voyager and DS9 ? It's 100 years before all that - in a different timeline.

 

The timeline that you know and love still continues - we're just seeing an alternate history.

Old Spock in the 2009 movie is proof of this. They're saying " we're doing our own thing - but here's old Spock to set it all in motion to show that we can't have our universe without the original universe. "

[BlobVanDam]

And how did JJ shit all over Voyager and DS9 ? It's 100 years before all that - in a different timeline.

Which means that in the JJ universe, they don't really exist anymore (the timeline is changed so much that it would be pretty contrived to just reboot them or reuse those characters). The chances of them going back to the prime universe are slim to none, although it would have been tough to continue anyway, given how far they took it.

If Voyager counts as starting rot, I don't know what that makes JJ Trek. Voyager had its obvious flaws, but JJ Trek is worse in most regards, with its nonsensical plots and wasted, empty characters.

My ideal situation would be that they manage to pull out a good third movie that isn't all empty explosions, then it does poorly because the people who only jumped on board with the JJ movies don't like it, so they stop making them, then bring back some smart Trek to TV that has absolutely nothing to do with JJ/Orci/Kurtzman, and everybody lives happily ever after.


I miss science fiction.