Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I try not to keep my expectations super high, but I just can't help it this time!

[Dellers]

SDOIT is a prime example of why one should be excited for the upcoming album: a concise DT mixed with a lengthy DT is a killer formula for impending awesomeness.

Exactly! If DT12 reaches the same level of creativity and complexity and depth and bass, then I will be one happy camper.

FTFM

[fadetoblackdude7]

Additionally...Live, Die, Kill is going to be 80's Metallica sounding me thinks. Like a combo of TTTSTA And Constant Motion but with a thashier vibe.

The title would certainly suggest that.  I get a similar vibe.  ...which means we are probably dead wrong. 

Most likely. Before ADTOE came out I was expecting LNF to be a beautiful, emotional song, mourning the loss of someone and it turned out to be a shred fest! 

[JPX]

Additionally...Live, Die, Kill is going to be 80's Metallica sounding me thinks. Like a combo of TTTSTA And Constant Motion but with a thashier vibe.

The title would certainly suggest that.  I get a similar vibe.  ...which means we are probably dead wrong. 

Yep, probably a ballad section lol.

[PROGdrummer]

I'm not expecting false awakening to be all that long, 13-14 minutes tops. Standard DT fair.

[eosforum]

I'm also trying to keep my expectations toa reasonable level. If it's a bit better than ADTOE I will be a happy fan

[King Postwhore]

I know early on that people were complaining about the change in the logo but how many times have Rush changed the style of their name ever so slightly and how many times did this doofus write the different logos all over the place (Notebooks, walls "In the bathroom halls...."), plus buying the different concert T-Shirts?!  Great marketing really.

[ariich]

Whatsername, I really am the same as you, I very rarely listen to individual songs. I almost always put an album on, or I might sometimes put a band's whole collection on random shuffle.

[wolven74]

So there are 9 songs with 17 track names. Some of the songs are under 5 minutes long. I have to wonder what the significance of this is.  My guess is that the tracks under five minutes are in the False Awakening Suite and Illumination Theory sub parts.

[Jaffa]

So there are 9 songs with 17 track names. Some of the songs are under 5 minutes long. I have to wonder what the significance of this is.  My guess is that the tracks under five minutes are in the False Awakening Suite and Illumination Theory sub parts.

This isn't the impression I have.  I think the multi-movement songs are one track each.

I could be wrong, though.  That's just the way it looks to me.

[eosforum]

FAS can't be too long. They wouldn't open with an epic, that's why they cut ITPOE in half. What I got from the podcast is that some of the "regular" songs will be shorter, not the sub-parts of FAS or IT.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

FAS can't be too long. They wouldn't open with an epic, that's why they cut ITPOE in half. What I got from the podcast is that some of the "regular" songs will be shorter, not the sub-parts of FAS or IT.

Why not?

[425]

I would guess because it's very hard for anything to follow it. Imagine if 8VM had another song after the title track or if BCSL had another song after The Count.

[GasparXR]

It depends if the epic works as an opener or a closer. In the case of 8VM, it works best as a closer, but they could have very well written a 20-minute song that actually works as an opening song well.

[Millais]

I don't think a DT album, pre-release, has ever excited me so much.

Track names intriguing? Check.

Ridiculously out of character album cover? Check.


I'm in. 

[MarkFitDT]

The album cover sucks. Period.

nice reasoned argument there!!

for the record I really like it.

[Jaffa]

It's difficult not to be impressed with the confidence they're showing about this album.  I know they always make it sound like their new album is going to be their best, but... I don't know.  I feel like a self-titled album with a simple cover featuring the band logo front and center is really making a very big statement about the quality of the music.  Combine that with Mike Mangini saying the album is seven times better than anything he's ever recorded...

Again, I know that them feeling good about the album doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to like it as much as they do, but... Well.  Like I said, it's just difficult not to be impressed with their confidence. 

[rush-signals]

I don't think a DT album, pre-release, has ever excited me so much.

Track names intriguing? Check.

Ridiculously out of character album cover? Check.


I'm in. 

Exactly. I've read so many comments here on this and that and I bet none of them pan out. This is a new Dream Theater in my book. The cover is simple as it should be, but who cares! The song titles are great IMO and I see them flowing into some type of sembelance. I'll just sit back, wait and enjoy it when it comes out unless it's a disco or rap album!

[eosforum]

When SC came out, JP and MP said many times that they didn't want an epic to be the first track, because it would sort of cut the flow of the record right from the beginning. So they cut it in two parts in order to avoid a very long track kinda stalling the listeners before they get to the rest of the record.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

How much was the ADTOE box set? I'd imagine this one would be about the same

[Frank]

Maybe this is well known, but out of curiosity, does LaBrie speak French?

[Jaffa]

When SC came out, JP and MP said many times that they didn't want an epic to be the first track, because it would sort of cut the flow of the record right from the beginning. So they cut it in two parts in order to avoid a very long track kinda stalling the listeners before they get to the rest of the record.

For the record, this doesn't necessarily mean that they still feel the same way now.  I'm not betting on FA (why not?  We may as well start abbreviating early...) being a huge epic, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't be. 

Speaking of abbreviations, has anybody pointed out that Illumination Theory will be abbreviated as IT? 

[hefdaddy42]

One thing I have learned is not to try to figure out much about DT songs from their titles.

[bosk1]

One thing I have learned is:  Trust hefdaddy42 in all things.

[rush-signals]

EXACTLY!

One thing I have learned is not to try to figure out much about DT songs from their titles.

[The Letter M]

FAS can't be too long. They wouldn't open with an epic, that's why they cut ITPOE in half. What I got from the podcast is that some of the "regular" songs will be shorter, not the sub-parts of FAS or IT.

"A Nightmare To Remember" would have a word with you, as would "The Glass Prison".

Also, as I said earlier in the thread, just because FAS has 3 movements with individual titles doesn't mean it's going to be an EPIC in the length-sense. Remember how "The Killing Hand" has five movements but is only about 9 minutes long? I don't expect FAS to be longer than 10 minutes, but at least 7, with each movement being about 2-3 minutes long.

As for IT, I expect it to be working title "Epic" from the Progress Chart, and to be about 20-22 minutes long, enough for Side 4 of the Double LP vinyl album.  I also hope that they ordered the songs in a way that is also conducive to 4 sides of the vinyl, meaning the song lengths for the tracks fit into the sides well. Here's my guesses...
Side 1 ~21 minutes
1. FALSE AWAKENING SUITE ~9 minutes
2. THE ENEMY INSIDE ~5 minutes
3. THE LOOKING GLASS ~7 minutes

Side 2 ~17 minutes
4. ENIGMA MACHINE ~5 minutes
5. THE BIGGER PICTURE ~12 minutes

Side 3 ~20 minutes
6. BEHIND THE VEIL ~7 minutes
7. SURRENDER TO REASON ~4 minutes
8. ALONG FOR THE RIDE ~9 minutes

Side 4 ~20 minutes
9. ILLUMINATION THEORY ~20 minutes

Total ~78 minutes

-Marc.

[Lucidity]

So when the album comes out, there will be a single song called False Awakening, divided into parts? Or will there be multiple songs that form the suite, a la Mind Beside Itself?

[GandL]

Maybe this is well known, but out of curiosity, does LaBrie speak French?

I saw him on a french canadian show, he knows a couple of words, understand a little bit but cannot speak really.

'The letter M', I think that you might not be too far, this is a good guess.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

I thought they stated it was a 9 track album.

[The Letter M]

9 tracks, meaning the songs with movements will NOT be indexed into their separate parts as tracks, a la "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence"...this is, of course, assuming they know the difference between TRACKS and SONGS when it comes to albums.

SDOIT has 6 SONGS, but really has 13 TRACKS across it's two discs.

Either way, I still expect FAS to be what was known as "YARGGG"/Opener, and still be completely instrumental. Opening with a 7-10 minute instrumental to set the tone of the album, especially with a new member FULLY INTEGRATED into the writing process, would be a bold statement... AND it is something they have never done before, but would be completely welcome with MM on board. Perhaps only PART of the song is instrumental, but I'd expect at least one of its three movements to be lyric-less.

In addition to FAS, at least one other track will be completely instrumental, and as for the "Easter Egg", I assume it'll be on the album, but it won't be listed in the official press releases as such. It's an EASTER EGG...meaning we'll hear it as we get the album. No one will know what it is, have an official name for it, but it'll be on there and it'll be JR/JP just doing what they do best.

-Marc.

[jonnybaxy]

Just checked thst the initials for each song don't clash with another and off the top of my head they don't

[bosk1]

9 tracks, meaning the songs with movements will NOT be indexed into their separate parts as tracks

Probably, but not necessarily.  In the general sense, people often use "track" and "song" interchangeably unless there is a specific reason to use one or the other.

[jonnybaxy]

The more I look at this cover, the more I see the cut of the world, it just seems like a piss poor attempt..

[FlyingBIZKIT]

Thr more I look at this cover, the more I see the cut of the world, it just seems like a piss poor attempt..

I really don't think it's the final product though. I don't see that being released. I'm sure they'll touch up on it!

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't think a DT album, pre-release, has ever excited me so much.

Well, later on in a band's career, you can be excited for their new upcoming albums, but chances are, their music isn't going to have as much discovery and adventure as their earlier works. The later works usually refine what the band had already developed. But in this case, it really does seem like the album will be a lot more adventurous, and knowing that Mike Mangini was allowed to go crazy on it, is even more reassuring. So yeah, it's a time for excitement!

9 tracks, meaning the songs with movements will NOT be indexed into their separate parts as tracks

Probably, but not necessarily.  In the general sense, people often use "track" and "song" interchangeably unless there is a specific reason to use one or the other.

But the movements themselves aren't numbered, so I'm pretty sure they'll be combined onto one track. Usually the tracks are numbered the way the numbers would show up on a basic CD player, meaning the numbers themselves represent the tracks. Unless the actual back of the CD changes the numbering from what we've been given.