Top Of The World Tour 2023

[Ben_Jamin]

[

If the guys don't want to say anything about JLBs voice, what gives us the right to demand them to tell us?

Because they expect us to pay exorbitant prices for the “privilege” of listening to him.

Agreed. Plus, we aren't even asking the band to say anything. We are just expressing our exuberance or frustration as fans. Once you put yourself out there to the public, you understand there is going to be feedback both positive and negative. That's just how it goes. There is no special 'right' required to express ones opinion.

I completely understand that.

Apparently, I just perceive music entirely different from most people. I know the reality that something is up with JLB's voice, that in itself is not going to put me off from seeing the band live. That is due to my perception of the band being a lot more than just about the vocals. There's reasons why I love this band a lot.

Vocals/Singing are just one aspect of the entire whole of music for me. There's also the tones, the way the music progresses, the emotions of these progressions, the meanings of the words, how the music creates an atmosphere to present the words, how the music along with the words help to explain what the song is trying to say.

I love the way Dream Theater does all of those things. I don't know why, but the band just hits that spot for me. Even though I wish the band would address the situation with JLB's vocals, I dont care if they don't address it at all and continue the way they are right now. I never had a problem with JLB's backing tracks. Knowing that the songs have some great vocal melodies, it would be nice if JLB wouldn't stray too far away from them when he "alters" certain vocal melodies. That way I don't sound off when I'm also singing along, because I love the melodies.

Also, personally, i wish the audience would also sing along more. The band has plenty of these moments and it was unfortunate the one song that ends with a big audience participation moment, wasn't sung by the audience at Mesa, but it was sure sung in Austin. Bands love it when an audience sings the songs. It's a sign of unity and there is this tone the human collective has, and it has power that just sounds glorious and majestic.

[Dream Team]

That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.

[gborland]

That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.

*cough*.... blame the all-seated venues... *cough*

[Azyiu]

That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.

I don't entirely agree with this. People at the London show were still banging their heads at the right moment over those "right" songs. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.

[Architeuthis]

That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.

. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.

At least six degrees..  🤪

[Azyiu]

That’s a good point, more audience participation would be awesome. Too bad most DT crowds are too chill.

. I think the setlist dictates how the audience reacts to a certain degree.

At least six degrees..  🤪

 

[crystalstars17]

Apparently, I just perceive music entirely different from most people. I know the reality that something is up with JLB's voice, that in itself is not going to put me off from seeing the band live. That is due to my perception of the band being a lot more than just about the vocals. There's reasons why I love this band a lot.

Vocals/Singing are just one aspect of the entire whole of music for me. There's also the tones, the way the music progresses, the emotions of these progressions, the meanings of the words, how the music creates an atmosphere to present the words, how the music along with the words help to explain what the song is trying to say.

I love the way Dream Theater does all of those things. I don't know why, but the band just hits that spot for me. Even though I wish the band would address the situation with JLB's vocals, I dont care if they don't address it at all and continue the way they are right now. I never had a problem with JLB's backing tracks. Knowing that the songs have some great vocal melodies, it would be nice if JLB wouldn't stray too far away from them when he "alters" certain vocal melodies. That way I don't sound off when I'm also singing along, because I love the melodies.

This is a worthy post. Aside from the whole "audience participation" angle (which I have to say that this is very individual - as an introvert, I will be standing but you won't find me singing or clapping along, but instead deeply enjoying the entire experience by taking it all in), there's something about the whole "vocals" argument that I feel needs mentioning, in general.

Now this is not to say that I think everything is perfect with James (it's not, and as I always say, I just want the best for him and his angelic voice - he will always be my favorite). But I was watching another band's concert on YouTube last night. I won't say whom, because I don't want to come across as unnecessarily critical, but this is a band that is at least 15 to 20 years younger than DT, a band whose studio albums are brilliant and I really enjoy. But honestly, the singer's live delivery really disappointed me. As in, he sounds like he just gargled with nails level of disappointing. And the thought that hit me in that moment was this...

That we Dream Theater fans are so freaking spoiled.

Spoiled, rotten. To the core. We are so used to the sheer high level of music, of technicality, of precision, of perfection that our favorite band delivers, that it's just so incongruous and glaringly obvious to us if even one little thing is out of place. Now that's not to say that there isn't a problem, or room for improvement, or something that needs attention. It's just so jarring because we're so used to the highest level of perfection that five humans under heaven can possibly create.

I just wanted to come in and drop this little perspective bomb, just for everyone's consideration.

(Myself included.)

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

[KevShmev]

Not sure I agree with that take.  I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring.  The beauty of life is imperfections.  Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater. 

[Adami]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

[hefdaddy42]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

This.

JLB's vocal issues haven't yet been enough to dissuade me from seeing the band, but I have no problem at all for whom that threshold has already been crossed.

[Adami]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

This.

JLB's vocal issues haven't yet been enough to dissuade me from seeing the band, but I have no problem at all for whom that threshold has already been crossed.

Yea, and I'll add that while I have no desire to see DT live for the last 10 years, it has nothing to do with JLB.

[ReaperKK]

Not sure I agree with that take.  I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring.  The beauty of life is imperfections.  Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater. 

This, and honestly Dream Theater, for as good as they are, isn't the only technically proficient band out there. Go check out The Aristocrats or hell, check out Animals As Leaders who will be opening for them. Both bands would give DT a big run for the money in pure technical prowess with the added bonus of being more lively on stage.

I will concede that DT fans were spoiled with with MP in the band in the way of demos/live releases/fan interaction.

[Chino]

Not sure I agree with that take.  I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring.  The beauty of life is imperfections.  Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.

But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things like the Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.

I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.

[Stadler]

Not sure I agree with that take.  I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring.  The beauty of life is imperfections.  Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.

But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.

I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.

Is it possible to agree with both of you?  Seriously.  I LIKE the imperfections, but I see where Chino is coming from.  For me it's not exactly "perfection" as much as it is "doing something I can't do".  I'm not a perfect musician, at all, but what REALLY gets me about the bands I like is their ability to pivot.  To own their music and their instruments.   To have the balls to move on from something that goes wrong.  I'm not that guy; I've seen Gene Simmons' flying rig fail TWICE, to the point he was hanging 3 to 5 feet off the stage, like an idiot.  I would die.  He, though, took it like a pro, and in the second instance inspired his band to give one of the best performances I've seen them give.  That's not perfection, but that is - to me - the "Rubik's cube solve".

[cramx3]

Yeah, I share both of those opinions as well.  DT are great live because of their high level of executing the music with perfection, BUT the imperfections are what make the show unique and feel more real. 

[crystalstars17]

It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.

Yes! This, precisely! Thank you for saying in a few words what it took me several paragraphs to fail at saying. 🤭

And because of this being what we're used to, vs the average 'good band' generally sounding like garbage live, we notice it very sharply when something's amiss.

But by comparison, the thing in question is still far superior to the alternative.

We're just so spoiled, that we do not realize it.

[KevShmev]

Not sure I agree with that take.  I won't speak for anyone else, but going to a concert to hear technical, precision music played to perfection sounds super boring.  The beauty of life is imperfections.  Nothing in life is perfect, not even Dream Theater.

But sometimes there's thrill in seeing something that's as close to perfection as you can get. That's why things Harlem Globe Trotters, the Blue Angels, Nitro Circus, and professional billiards/darts have managed to draw huge crowds for decades.

I get what you're saying, and don't really fault the view at all. I feel the exact same way about dancing. But for me, I can see hundreds of bands not be perfect just about anywhere. Dream Theater being near perfect is the draw for me. The outros to songs like TCOT, ITNOG, LTL, and Octavarium wouldn't be what they are if they weren't bordering on perfection while playing them. I can't help but think of Beyond This Life on LaB. That to me is Dream Theater being perfect. It's jaw dropping. It's like watching a kid solve a rubik's cube in 4.9 seconds or one of those magic tricks that fools Penn and Teller. They're freaks of nature at what they do, and that's worth the price of admission.

Is it possible to agree with both of you?  Seriously.  I LIKE the imperfections, but I see where Chino is coming from.  For me it's not exactly "perfection" as much as it is "doing something I can't do".  I'm not a perfect musician, at all, but what REALLY gets me about the bands I like is their ability to pivot.  To own their music and their instruments.   To have the balls to move on from something that goes wrong.  I'm not that guy; I've seen Gene Simmons' flying rig fail TWICE, to the point he was hanging 3 to 5 feet off the stage, like an idiot.  I would die.  He, though, took it like a pro, and in the second instance inspired his band to give one of the best performances I've seen them give.  That's not perfection, but that is - to me - the "Rubik's cube solve".

I get what you are both saying, and to be honest, just about any musician up there playing is doing something I cannot , so that is a low bar to clear for me, to be honest.  That said, I think my view has changed a bit as I get older. While I was never a "chops first" kind of music fan - to me, the crazy playing is always best when it is the icing on the cake, not the cake, I need SONGS first and foremost - going to see musicians just stand there and play super technical stuff doesn't make for a very exciting concert from a visual standpoint, even if I love the music.  And DT's stage show pales in comparison to other shows I have seen in my life, so their stage and light show is a non-factor when it comes to upgrading the overall show.  As much as I often found Portnoy to be a bit annoying and bit too "look at me!", the band's current approach could use a little of that, as they look like a band that just stands there and plays now and makes little to no effort to connect with the fans.

[NoFred]

Priority is I want to be entertained. Right now they have two static perfectionists, two relative crowd pleasers, and an atrocious front man.

[Dream Team]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

[DreamerTV]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

Yeah but you don't have to.

[Ben_Jamin]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.

The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music.  After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.

Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.

Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.

[wolfking]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.

The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music.  After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.

Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.

Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.

I kind of stopped reading after this first line.

[WilliamMunny]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.

The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music.  After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.

Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.

Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.

I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.

Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.

Sure, there may be an outlier here and there, but 'if' the demand for an artist/writer/musician can command a certain dollar amount, the vast majority are going to gladly take every penny they can get.

As they should, because, at the end of the day, all of this (and I mean, like, 'everything' in life) is a business. Unless it's you and your friends sitting around a campfire with some guitars, music (as we know it now) is a commodity that is marketed, bought and sold with the same amount of ruthless calculation as the gas you put in your car.

[Architeuthis]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.

The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music.  After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.

Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.

Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.

I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.

Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.

How can somebody disagree with that when he was just stating facts?  The logistics of touring is very costly, and DT shows are high caliber productions.

[WilliamMunny]

Who are we mere mortals to criticize, at all? Who are we.

We're criticizing other mere mortals.

We’re the ones paying $100, remember? Sheesh.

If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows.

The reality is, it's difficult to make a living with just making music and playing it live. Plus, it's not just paying the band that makes the ticket cost as much as it does. There's others involved in the entire process of touring besides the band, their crew, and their management. There's the issues of financial costs associated with venturing, such as how much does it cost to rent a bus, trucks to carry the stage production, those involved in making the stage designs, and the ones making the videos used in the background screens. To make up for those costs just for the pre-production of the stage presentation, they price the tickets the way they do. The ticketmaster fiasco has nothing to do with the band themselves and that's something we fans should be upset at ticketmaster for monopolizing live music.  After these costs get settled, only then does the band start breaking even and making some sort of income.

Dream Theater is a well oiled machine in the music business. And I think it's quite obvious with how much control they actually have over some of these business decisions. Such as the quality of the Lost Not Forgotten Archives. With the end product, it feels as if the band just signs off on it, while they let those involved worry about these things. These are things that make you appreciate how much Mike Portnoy went out of his way to make things happen for the band. But also, there is no other musician I know of that goes as far as Mike Portnoy has in regards to understanding what the fans really want from a band. And for this, it's why I say that we Dream Theater fans were spoiled by MP when he was in the band.

Even though I really miss those things that MP did for us fans. I also appreciate what the band is doing now as well. Enough so, I would gladly pay $100 to see the band and not complain about not getting my money's worth, or being entertained enough to justify the price of the ticket.

I super appreciate the sentiment of your post, but I could not disagree more.

Bottom line, anyone who is operating at a high level, regardless of the profession, is going to want to be paid accordingly.

How can somebody disagree with that when he was just stating facts?  The logistics of touring is very costly, and DT shows are high caliber productions.

Man, if none of us 'disagreed' around here, this place would be really stale.

For the record, "If bands could, they would definitely not be charging that much for shows. I bet anything a lot of them would not mind at all playing free shows." is not a fact, but an opinion...and one that I disagree with

[Architeuthis]

Well that part of it, yes you do have a point. 

[Stadler]

Not to pile on Ben, but there ARE bands with the clout and wherewithal to influence or drive ticket prices, and some of those are the highest tickets on the market!   Hell, Roger Waters is a friggin' communist/socialist (they're not the same, but since I haven't spoken directly to Roger in a while, I'm leaving it ambiguous; either way, he's NOT a capitalist) and for a while there he had the MOST expensive tickets.  Now, I get it, "being a communist/socialist" doesn't mean "I work for free", if anyone could get their arms around the chaff of the transaction costs in a concert ticket, its Roger Waters.

[cramx3]

There's definitely artists that do try to keep the costs down for fans (look at what The Cure has done for their tour for example) but that's not the same as playing for free.  The free stuff works for younger people trying to get their music out there. But most artists on tour are professionals and professionals get paid and need/want that money.