2013-14 NBA thread v. Adam Silver Lays the Pipe on Donald Sterling ©2014antigoon

[ReaPsTA]

Loved seeing Parker go off in the second half.  After a great post-season, it would have been an ignominious finish.

[Nekov]

Congrats to the Spurs, they managed to throw the Heat out of the court 4 times in the finals. The way they played is just unbelievable.

[Accelerando]

Crying. CRYING

I love my Spurs!!!

[ReaPsTA]

Spurs were just beautiful.

[Jamesman42]

They deserve it and Kawaii deserves FMVP. Fucking excited to watch his career go on.

[Dimitrius]

Wow! The Spurs were unbelievable!!

Miami came out white hot, and they ice cold, they weather it, climb back and annihilate the Heat! Goddamn!!

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Best team I've seen in a long time. I don't know the next time I'll see a group this good. Congrats to the Spurs!

[gm5k]

Best team I've seen in a long time. I don't know the next time I'll see a group this good. Congrats to the Spurs!

My favorite Spurs championship team ever 

Crying. CRYING

I love my Spurs!!!

5. What happens to the Spurs with age creeping up on Tim Duncan (37) and Manu Ginobili (about to be 36)?

Guess we have our answer 

[KevShmev]

Congrats to the Spurs and their fans.  That was truly a total team effort.

[gm5k]

Congrats to the Spurs and their fans.  That was truly a total team effort.

Thank you. 

Somehow I get the feeling they're not done, though.   I think Timmy and Manu give it one more go for the repeat 

[ReaPsTA]

A moment that I've seen no one mention - At one point, the Spurs fans were singing Seven Nation Army.  That's trolling right there.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Congrats to the Spurs and their fans.  That was truly a total team effort.

Thank you. 

Somehow I get the feeling they're not done, though.   I think Timmy and Manu give it one more go for the repeat 

Even if all the Spurs' old guys come back 10% worse next year, they will still have a great chance to win because everyone else on the team is so young and will almost definitely get better.

[ReaPsTA]

If the Spurs want to run it back, it will be semi-tough because they have to resign Diaw and Mills.  Hopefully they could also sign a good MLE guy or make a nice trade.

[KevShmev]

LeBron should go play for the Spurs.  Seriously, how ridiculous would that team be?

[ReaPsTA]

Not one... not two... not three... not four...

[KevShmev]

Of course the problem with James going somewhere else will mean he will have spent the bulk of his career with 3+ teams.  Players this good rarely bounce from team to team.

Jordan was always a Bull (until his ill-fated comeback with the Wizards).
Bird was always a Celtic.
Magic was always a Laker.
Duncan has always been a Spur.
etc.

Granted, James has a lot of critics, most of whom will irrationally bash him no matter what, but this will simply give them more ammo, especially if he goes to a team that is on the verge.  That will stir up more "he had to go to a team loaded with talent to win" argument, as if any of the top stars in NBA history won multiple rings without other stars around him, but it's what he'll have to deal with his entire career.

[ReaPsTA]

Here's the one valid criticism of that, and the one thing about this finals performance that's really open to criticism.

Jordan was an asshole, but he made you play hard.  If you want to play hard for Jordan because he'll punch you at practice, this makes him a bad person.  But you're playing hard.  Oscar Robertson was also a legendary asshole, but it made people play hard.

Part of being a great player is, at a bare minimum, getting your team to play hard.  The Heat this finals were often lazy and didn't care.  The Heat's whole on/off switch thing in general has been bullshit.  People romanticize it and say "well, they turn it on when it counts because they have the heart of a champion."  But having an on/off switch is really bad.  The Big three Celtics were an on/off switch team, and it hurt them deeply.  It hurt their habits and their discipline.  You can't say LeBron isn't at least partly responsible for these things without being unreasonable.  He's the team's best player.  The team's best player almost always sets the tone.

If LeBron changes teams again, you'd be able to say, fairly, that he's not interested in being around to help build a team and a culture.  He just wants to go to somewhere it's already set up for him.

These are all ridiculously high standards.  But if you want to say LeBron is a top 10 player ever, he has to meet them.

This is why, as much as I find LeBron's haters inane (anyone who blames him for the Heat losing is stupid, he's the only one that cared even a little), defending him also feels hollow.  The Heat basically got Carmelo Anthony level play out of LeBron this series.  Great, but not all-time great.

[KevShmev]

I am sorry. but that is absurd. Carmelo Anthony-play?  Really?

So basically, you are saying it is his fault that Wade suddenly looked older than me (I am 40), that Chalmers looked awful, and that the Heat's bench was basically useless?  Because he didn't motivate his entire team like Jordan would have?  Yeah, Jordan never had to play 1 on 5 in big games...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199006030DET.html

Why didn't Jordan get his team to play harder in that pivotal Game 7??  Was he basically Carmelo Anthony in that game?

Bottom line: last night, James had an epic 1st quarter, but no one else was doing anything, which is what that early 17-point lead evaporated quickly.

[ReaPsTA]

So basically, you are saying it is his fault that Wade suddenly looked older than me (I am 40)

No.

It's that they didn't even give a shit.  They at least looked alive the first two games.  In the last three, they gave up.

[KevShmev]

No, they got blown off the court by a team that was clicking on all cylinders.  It's like the Broncos/Seahawks Super Bowl.  Were the Seahawks that much better of a team than the Broncos?  Not really.  But once Seattle got on a roll, it just snowballed, and it was like shoveling shit against the tide.  Same thing with the Spurs.  Once a team gets on a roll like they did, there is not much you can do.  Remember that almost all of their playoff wins since Game 7 against Dallas in the 1st round were romps.  The Heat were simply another team, albeit the last, that got steamrolled by the tidal wave.

[ReaPsTA]

I can't agree at all.

Here's a video breaking down the Heat's lazy execution in game 4.

Game 5 was slightly better, but not by much.

They didn't really move the ball that much.  Their sets were sloppy.  They stopped doing what they did in the first quarter.  They were creating open threes for their shooters and driving lanes.  Then nothing.

In the first two games, you saw a lot of threes and you saw a lot of LeBron posting up.  Did LeBron post up at all in game 5?  I don't remember it.

Or look at Game 1.  Once LeBron was done for the game, they just shut down and let Danny Green shoot open threes.

Saying "oh, the Spurs were just better" is an excuse.  The Heat didn't play hard enough to even try and earn it.

[Azyiu]

With the Spurs winning their 5th title last night, we ought to pay our tribute to their great season with this funny video! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St5PLcxZy44&feature=youtu.be

[ReaPsTA]

Prophetic video.

[KevShmev]

I can't agree at all.

Here's a video breaking down the Heat's lazy execution in game 4.

Game 5 was slightly better, but not by much.

They didn't really move the ball that much.  Their sets were sloppy.  They stopped doing what they did in the first quarter.  They were creating open threes for their shooters and driving lanes.  Then nothing.

In the first two games, you saw a lot of threes and you saw a lot of LeBron posting up.  Did LeBron post up at all in game 5?  I don't remember it.

Or look at Game 1.  Once LeBron was done for the game, they just shut down and let Danny Green shoot open threes.

Saying "oh, the Spurs were just better" is an excuse.  The Heat didn't play hard enough to even try and earn it.

Okay, I agree that the Heat gave up in Game 1 after James couldn't play down the stretch, but as for 3, 4 and 5, I think it's the chicken and the egg thing.  I think it was a case of the Spurs playing lights out making some of the Heat players realize how overmatched they were, and in a team game, all it sometimes takes is one or two guys not giving their all, especially when you only have five guys on the court, for the whole team to look discombobulated.  It's like when a team quits on a coach in football.  It's not like an entire team quits on a coach, but all it takes is even a small percentage of players to not give their all and the team falls like dominoes.  For example, see how many time during the Phil Jackson/Kobe Bryant era where they were ousted from the playoffs with an absurd blowout.  It's not like all of the Lakers gave up; just some of the players did, and when you are playing a team clicking on all cylinders, the demolition then looks that much worse.

[ReaPsTA]

Okay, I agree that the Heat gave up in Game 1 after James couldn't play down the stretch, but as for 3, 4 and 5, I think it's the chicken and the egg thing.  I think it was a case of the Spurs playing lights out making some of the Heat players realize how overmatched they were

An important point.  The Heat's will never should have broken, but the Spurs did break it.  Miami didn't lose.  The Spurs won.

and in a team game, all it sometimes takes is one or two guys not giving their all, especially when you only have five guys on the court, for the whole team to look discombobulated.  It's like when a team quits on a coach in football.  It's not like an entire team quits on a coach, but all it takes is even a small percentage of players to not give their all and the team falls like dominoes.  For example, see how many time during the Phil Jackson/Kobe Bryant era where they were ousted from the playoffs with an absurd blowout.  It's not like all of the Lakers gave up; just some of the players did, and when you are playing a team clicking on all cylinders, the demolition then looks that much worse.

This is interesting.  Never totally thought of it, but it's true.

Can you see though why I find LeBron's leadership untrustworthy?  A finals team shouldn't just melt like this, even with the Spurs pressure.  It's not about being perfect, if you look back at other top ten players, you'll find flaws.  But, we've seen LeBron do this four times in a row now.  From a leadership/intensity standpoint, he hasn't been there more than he has been.  I don't understand how I'm supposed to look at this guy as some kind of mythically great player.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Can you see though why I find LeBron's leadership untrustworthy?  A finals team shouldn't just melt like this, even with the Spurs pressure.  It's not about being perfect, if you look back at other top ten players, you'll find flaws.  But, we've seen LeBron do this four times in a row now.  From a leadership/intensity standpoint, he hasn't been there more than he has been.  I don't understand how I'm supposed to look at this guy as some kind of mythically great player.

Is it not more-so the coaching staff's responsibility than LeBron's to make sure the guys play hard? Also, what is it exactly that LeBron has done four times in a row now? Not be intense?

[ReaPsTA]

Is it not more-so the coaching staff's responsibility than LeBron's to make sure the guys play hard?

EDIT:  Shitshitshit.  Misread your post.

I kinda know what you're saying.  That's why I don't want to be like "LeBron's a bad leader!"  I just think these questions also need to be seriously asked.  Even if you can come up with a good reason why he's in the clear, it should be talked about.

Also, what is it exactly that LeBron has done four times in a row now? Not be intense?

Be in the finals.

[King Postwhore]

I also think that 4 years in a row to the finals is no joke.  That's a ton of games and mentally a tough road.

[ReaPsTA]

True.  This is LeBron's best argument for being in the top ten.  Just getting there four times in a row is insane.

[KevShmev]

Okay, I agree that the Heat gave up in Game 1 after James couldn't play down the stretch, but as for 3, 4 and 5, I think it's the chicken and the egg thing.  I think it was a case of the Spurs playing lights out making some of the Heat players realize how overmatched they were

An important point.  The Heat's will never should have broken, but the Spurs did break it.  Miami didn't lose.  The Spurs won.

Exactly. The Spurs won.  I know it's fun to play the blame game, but at some point, you have to actually give credit to the team that kicked ass and won.  That team was the Spurs.

Can you see though why I find LeBron's leadership untrustworthy? A finals team shouldn't just melt like this, even with the Spurs pressure.  It's not about being perfect, if you look back at other top ten players, you'll find flaws.  But, we've seen LeBron do this four times in a row now.  From a leadership/intensity standpoint, he hasn't been there more than he has been.  I don't understand how I'm supposed to look at this guy as some kind of mythically great player.

Nope.

Think of it this way: James, Wade and Bosh all make the exact same money (they signed identical deals back in 2010), so realistically expectations should be the same, but I think it goes without saying that the Heat got more than their money's worth out of James, while neither Bosh nor Wade really lived up to the money they got (from an individual production standpoint), yet every time they lose, it is somehow James' fault.  It's asinine.  Hell, he deserved the criticism he got for his subpar games in the 2011 Finals, but anybody who puts the majority of the blame for this loss on him at all has zero grip on reality.

True.  This is LeBron's best argument for being in the top ten.  Just getting there four times in a row is insane.

Not to mention his 4 MVP awards and 2 Finals MVP awards (his 6 combined total MVP awards is already more Bird, Duncan, Bryant, Shaq and Wilt, FYI).  He's already top 10, according to most NBA experts.

[Dr. DTVT]

V. The Spurs lay the pipe on the Heat

[Dimitrius]

You're all missing the most important point! The Heat were never winning last night because they were desperate enough to dress AND play Michael Beasley!

[ReaPsTA]

Nope.

Think of it this way: James, Wade and Bosh all make the exact same money (they signed identical deals back in 2010), so realistically expectations should be the same, but I think it goes without saying that the Heat got more than their money's worth out of James, while neither Bosh nor Wade really lived up to the money they got (from an individual production standpoint), yet every time they lose, it is somehow James' fault.  It's asinine.  Hell, he deserved the criticism he got for his subpar games in the 2011 Finals, but anybody who puts the majority of the blame for this loss on him at all has zero grip on reality.

You can't blame LeBron for losing this series.  And yeah, I have no idea what Bosh and Wade were doing that series.

I just think LeBron can play better.  I think Westbrook is wildly overrated, but I like watching him play because he leaves it on the floor every game.  I want to see that from LeBron.  I thought his Game 2 this series was great.

Even LeBron said "I didn't do enough."

Saying LeBron could have played better =/= It's LeBron's fault they lost.

To me, so much of LeBron's reputation is hype.  I've seen him play basketball many times, and the player I see isn't the one I read about.

Not to mention his 4 MVP awards and 2 Finals MVP awards (his 6 combined total MVP awards is already more Bird, Duncan, Bryant, Shaq and Wilt, FYI).  He's already top 10, according to most NBA experts.

Am I the only one who doesn't find the MVP award all that important?  I thought it was cool that Durant won, but in the end LeBron played better against the Spurs than he did.  So why do I care about his MVP?  I don't understand what the award means.

You're all missing the most important point! The Heat were never winning last night because they were desperate enough to dress AND play Michael Beasley!

This was interesting to me.  Beasley isn't good on defense, but he can score.  The Heat could have at least tried him.

I like Spo, but he was really bad this series.  Never had any answers.

[KevShmev]

Oh, come on.  Him saying, "I didn't do enough," is what tons of players say in similar situations; it's called being accountable, regardless of how true or not it is. What is he supposed to do, throw his teammates under the bus by saying, "I needed more help"?  Then you'd bash him for being a bad leader.

I am guessing the problem is, thanks to the media, you watch James and expect him to play the way you think he should, instead of appreciating the way he plays.  He is not a flashy superstar the way guys like Jordan or Bryant are/were.  He simply dominates more often than not by doing everything out there - scoring, rebounding, making great passes, defending, being a court general, etc.  If you cannot see that, well, I don't know what else to say.

[Azyiu]

You're all missing the most important point! The Heat were never winning last night because they were desperate enough to dress AND play Michael Beasley!

^ THAT!