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2013-14 NBA thread v. Adam Silver Lays the Pipe on Donald Sterling ©2014antigoon

Started by black_biff_stadler, June 21, 2013, 03:03:44 AM

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KevShmev

James is not the first, nor will be the last, superstar to flop.  It's lame, I agree, but I watch the sport knowing that it's one of the annoying parts of the game that I can't change.  Honestly, and this is not to absolve him of it, but I blame Dwayne Wade for it.  I don't remember James being much of a flopper in Cleveland, yet once he got to Miami, he took it up several notches, and Wade has always been a huge flopper, so do the math. ;)

ReaP, I agree about the internet.  Plus, when Jim Rome was still on ESPN, he loved making fun of the "Not one, not two..." speech at their welcome part, and that sticks in peoples's craws.  I get it. 

And even though I don't watch it anymore, that show with Skip Bayless supposedly gets huge ratings, and he is to James what Rome was to Barry Bonds (see: loud-mouthed basher to the nth degree), so I suspect the many dopes who still watch Bayless takes his absurd criticisms of James to heart.

With Jordan, I think he benefited by being the best player in the league who finally overcome the hated "Bad Boys" Pistons.  So many were happy to see the Pistons finally lose in '91, and Jordan's Bulls were the ones to sweep them and dethrone them, so that definitely helped.  All of those damn commercials back in the day helped, too, as you alluded to...marketing and all that.


ReaPsTA

Quote from: KevShmev on June 09, 2014, 01:47:28 PM
And even though I don't watch it anymore, that show with Skip Bayless supposedly gets huge ratings, and he is to James what Rome was to Barry Bonds (see: loud-mouthed basher to the nth degree), so I suspect the many dopes who still watch Bayless takes his absurd criticisms of James to heart.

I generally think that the people control their own destiny.  We all hate Skip Bayless, yet enough people watch to keep him on TV.  It's hard to complain about him having a voice on national media.

But doesn't ESPN have a social responsibility to cancel his show?  Stephen A. Smith is awful too.  After the first game, he talked about how LeBron showed his lack of greatness by not playing through cramps.  I didn't see the TV because I was in the next room, but I imagine it was something like this.

KevShmev

Smith can actually be insightful on occasion - he is on Sportscenter now sometimes - but far too often, he gets all worked out and then out comes Screaming A. Smith. :lol :lol  That is when I can't change the channel quick enough.

Syzzle

It's all an act though nobody would watch the show if Skip didn't troll and Stephen A. didn't scream at him. Skip is incredibly knowledgeable about almost every sport, but if they let him show it First Take would plummet in the ratings and we can't have that happening now can we?

King Postwhore

Quote from: ReaPsTA on June 09, 2014, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: KevShmev on June 09, 2014, 01:47:28 PM
And even though I don't watch it anymore, that show with Skip Bayless supposedly gets huge ratings, and he is to James what Rome was to Barry Bonds (see: loud-mouthed basher to the nth degree), so I suspect the many dopes who still watch Bayless takes his absurd criticisms of James to heart.

I generally think that the people control their own destiny.  We all hate Skip Bayless, yet enough people watch to keep him on TV.  It's hard to complain about him having a voice on national media.

But doesn't ESPN have a social responsibility to cancel his show?  Stephen A. Smith is awful too.  After the first game, he talked about how LeBron showed his lack of greatness by not playing through cramps.  I didn't see the TV because I was in the next room, but I imagine it was something like this.

SAT WHAAAT?!

ESPN's obligation is to get ratings to get more money for advertisments and sometime people what who they hate because they love to hate on them and both Skip and STEVEN             A.        SMITH             does that.   
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Dimitrius

Yeah, Skip Bayless is Hitler.

Also, it looks like Derek Fisher will be the Knicks next head coach. I think he will do a fine job! Good luck, Fish!

TheOutlawXanadu

Quote from: Accelerando on June 09, 2014, 01:39:50 PM
Just like Reap, I respect him as a basketball player. He's obviously great, and an athletic beast. The Decision and some of the questionable comments he has made definitely irked me. Comments that put himself above the average person who happens to be NBA fans. Also taking a shot at Dirk Nowitzki during the NBA Finals by faking a cough was pretty low. Also when he got dunked on by a college player during a pick-up game, and he went out of his way to try and make sure that tape was confiscated, which to me is cowardly.

Also, he's suppose to be the greatest player in the world, and suppose to be in the same breath as Jordan and Kobe....why does he have to flop to try to win games? And his flopping isn't subtle, like Manu Ginobli, especially in his early career...Jame's is pretty ridiculous and over the top. Yes everyone flops nowadays, but you have to respect the game better than that especially if you are considered "The Chosen One"

Those are my irks. I respect him as an athletic basketball player, and he's a marvel to watch on the court. But that's about it. I'll never own a Lebron James jersey or wear his kicks like I have for Jordan, Bryant, or even Duncan.

I have some problems with this logic.

On the one hand, no one really knows what any of these athletes are like and so it's probably best for me not to judge them based on what they do off the court. On the other hand, based on what little we do know, it's probably not entirely baseless to say that Kobe and Jordan were worse dudes than LeBron. Both guys were not liked by their teammates, Kobe was charged with rape, and Jordan had well documented gambling problems that took their toll on everyone around him.

Despite all this, you're saying you'll continue to support Kobe and Jordan but not LeBron? Even though those guys have much more questionable character than him?

I don't know. I just feel like whereas LeBron is a little immature and doesn't think as hard as he should sometimes, those guys are actually "meh" people.

King Postwhore

Quote from: Dimitrius on June 09, 2014, 02:39:32 PM
Yeah, Skip Bayless is Hitler.

Also, it looks like Derek Fisher will be the Knicks next head coach. I think he will do a fine job! Good luck, Fish!

Seems to be the new trend hiring ex players with no head coaching experience.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Dimitrius

:lol

Yeah. But from years watching him on the Lakers, I always thought he would make a pretty good coach.

King Postwhore

AND POINT GUARDS TOO! :lol

Still doesn't bode well for Rajon in 10 years though. :lol
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

ReaPsTA

Quote from: kingshmegland on June 09, 2014, 02:27:32 PM
SAT WHAAAT?!

ESPN's obligation is to get ratings to get more money for advertisments and sometime people what who they hate because they love to hate on them and both Skip and STEVEN             A.        SMITH             does that.   

You're completely right.  I'm just throwing it out there as a thought experiment.  If I ran ESPN, I'd kill the show because it's embarrassing.  Reputation is more important than money.

Dimitrius


King Postwhore

It's a business sir.  You want a good reputation,   public-access television is a call way for you.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

ReaPsTA

Good reputation matters.  Steve Jobs worked mercilessly to make sure Apple was a product people identify with.  ESPN runs Grantland and FiveThirtyEight not because they have money but because it makes them look good.  Why does any corporation donate to charity except to help their image?

ESPN's new side doesn't directly make money, but it gives them an apparatus for manufacturing helpful drama around sports.  It's not like people will gradually go away.  If ESPN gets too stupid, people will just suddenly go away without warning to other sites like Bleacher Report, SBNation, and so on.  It's not like they're the only people producing good sports writing.

People get too attached to short term trends in business.  Music as a whole is still louder than it should be, but it's no where near as bad as before Death Magnetic.  Then, all the sudden, everyone became aware of the loudness war and everything had to step back.  Manufactured pop music was huge in the late 80's and early 90's, until the Milli Vanilli incident was so embarrassing that everyone had to at least pretend to be authentic.

We live in a world where social media can cause people to lose their jobs.  You don't think that Bayless is capable of saying something so bad that there's public outcry against ESPN.

Not just thinking about the money is naive idealism, until you're going out of business.

King Postwhore

It's an opinion show, they have plenty of other show you would deem respectable so if you don't like it turn the channel.  Why in this day and age if one does not like a style, it should be banned for all to see?  People watch TMZ for a specific reason and so do people who watch First Take.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

ReaPsTA

If I'm running ESPN, my view is that the site needs to be a source of credible journalism and opinion.  Even if SVG and Mark Jackson say silly things when calling games, they've both coached.  Michael Wilbon can say wrong things, but he's at least trying to provide serious commentary.

Then you have Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless, who directly create characters to stir up shit.

The ESPN makes most of its money through broadcasting.  What I don't want is to broadcast stuff into a vacuum, then have the Internet uncontrollably perceiving it.  The Internet gets more and more powerful every year.  I need a stake in controlling how it thinks.  I want the advertising dollars.  I want the branding.

I want more personalities like Bill Simmons and Nate Silver, who write thoughtful and entertaining content.  Stuff that people trust, believe in, and can't not read.

If I broadcast the NBA and know why people watch it (drama, personalities, excitement), I need to produce content in house that plays up those factors that people actually see.  If I'm the network that produces quality content, people buy in.  If I'm the network of Skip Bayless, people will think "oh, a bullshit hype piece, pass."

If this sounds ridiculous, all I'm doing is repeating back how Steve Jobs used marketing and branding to make Apple the biggest company in the world.  This isn't crazy stuff.  It's the most successful business tactic in the world.

King Postwhore

Except that ESPN is the Apple of TV sports right now.  They've diverse enough that you explained it with your post.  People want to see the loud,  abrasive, out there opinionated writers and the rating show.  One show will not be the demise of ESPN and it's morality you seek.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

KevShmev

Quote from: Syzzle on June 09, 2014, 02:26:15 PM
It's all an act though nobody would watch the show if Skip didn't troll and Stephen A. didn't scream at him. Skip is incredibly knowledgeable about almost every sport, but if they let him show it First Take would plummet in the ratings and we can't have that happening now can we?

Not really.  From what I remember, he takes the emotional, simplistic approach to analysis.  Plus, I did watch the day after the finals last year, just to see what he'd say after James won his 2nd title, and I believe that was the day that Mark Cuban was on there and made him look like a moron who knows nothing about the fundamentals about basketball.  It was beautiful to watch.

Quote from: kingshmegland on June 09, 2014, 04:01:46 PM
Except that ESPN is the Apple of TV sports right now.  They've diverse enough that you explained it with your post.  People want to see the loud,  abrasive, out there opinionated writers and the rating show.  One show will not be the demise of ESPN and it's morality you seek.

Agreed.  It shows how far ESPN has fallen when shows like First Take, Numbers Never Lie and Highly Questionable are on every weekday.  Those shows all appeal to the lowest common denominator (see: the dumbest sports fans in the country).

King Postwhore

And it's hot right now.  It's like that a lot on sports talk radio now as well.
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'." - Bon Newhart.

Syzzle

Skip has been covering sports for almost 40 years there is no reason to believe that he didn't know what a zone defense was (Which is what Cuban asked him to explain). He is just payed to say stuff to get reactions and he does his job well.

Azyiu

The Heat are 38-7, including 8-0 this year, when their good luck charm, 13-year-old Julia Dale sings the National Anthem before their playoff games! Let's see if the streak will continue....


Dimitrius


senecadawg2

So far the Spurs are absolutely dominating and Kawhi Leonard is hottest guy on the court...  :omg:

Obviously a lot of time still left, but this is not a good start to your first home game in the NBA finals  :lol

Accelerando

Just like Lebron responded to the criticism (silly criticism too) on game 1, Leonard is responding to his. He scored more in that first quarter than he did both Games 1 and 2.

It also helps San Antonio is putting on a clinic on how to move the ball.

But. Miami and their second half adjustments.

We gotta be perfect for the rest of the game to win. We have blown some big leads in the past  :(

Nekov


senecadawg2

Absolutely astonishing how easily they seem to be scoring. 55 points in less than 16 minutes... If they keep it up (I'm skeptical that they will) I imagine this could break some records.

Accelerando


black_biff_stadler

I literally zipped my dick up when I was 4. The first 6 minutes of this game alone were literally less enjoyable for me.

contest_sanity

Quote from: black_floyd on June 10, 2014, 08:17:38 PM
I literally zipped my dick up when I was 4. The first 6 minutes of this game alone were literally less enjoyable for me.

Literally the best comment of all times.

Jaq

Fuck, the Spurs were shooting the lights out in the first half. 71 fucking points. Jesus.

ReaPsTA

I saw the end of the third and the whole fourth quarter.  I missed the scoring barrage, unfortunately.

But still, even as someone who loves what the Spurs do, I still find new ways to be impressed by them.  I think the consensus going into this game was "are we sure the Spurs can beat Miami if LeBron doesn't have leg cramps?  Has Kawhi lost it?  The Heat know how big an opportunity they have."  And the Spurs just said fuck that and unleashed on them.

It's still impossible to know where this series is going.  But we do know now that the Spurs are going to make the Heat earn it.

contest_sanity

Couldn't we equally ask, however, of the Heat: "can they win if LeBron does not absolutely dominate?"

The Spurs could be saying to themselves, "Hey, if it wasn't for those 4 straight missed free throws in Game 2, we'd be up 3-0 now."

ReaPsTA

Quote from: contest_sanity on June 10, 2014, 11:58:46 PM
Couldn't we equally ask, however, of the Heat: "can they win if LeBron does not absolutely dominate?"

That's not a question.  It's almost self-evident at this point.  LeBron took 14 shots and 3 free throw attempts.  It's just not enough.

black_biff_stadler

Quote from: contest_sanity on June 10, 2014, 11:58:46 PM
Couldn't we equally ask, however, of the Heat: "can they win if LeBron does not absolutely dominate?"

The Spurs could be saying to themselves, "Hey, if it wasn't for those 4 straight missed free throws in Game 2, we'd be up 3-0 now."

I think they played like lackadaisical bitches on D and that probably doesn't happen if they're already down 2-0. Sure, they ran around and tried to chase down shooters but all too often they just took their foot off the gas and let 1.5 seconds of mental lapse take a shit on the 15-20 seconds they'd just hustled before that. It really seemed like classic Heat arrogance via buying into the media hype.

senecadawg2

Yeah if Spurs win game 2 I'm not sure game 3 looks so pretty for them.

Still, what an impressive performance all around for San Antonio. Spurs with almost twice as many players in double figures. They did a really good job of staying aggressive and getting free throws. Obviously Kawhi Leonard was the man, but Diaw and Green also both played really well. Green with 15 points and only one three point basket- not something you see everyday. And 5 steals to go with it!

Watching games that are actually competitive is fun, no doubt. But it's also nice to see a team unleash like that and play some beautiful basketball. Of course, the Heat could've played better defense as well  :lol