Author Topic: 2013-14 NBA thread v. Adam Silver Lays the Pipe on Donald Sterling ©2014antigoon  (Read 88882 times)

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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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LeBron is quietly having an all-time great playoff run. I'm hoping he keeps it up!

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Offline ReaPsTA

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So far, this is LeBron's best season.  He's embracing his role completely.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Offline Syzzle

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https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233632/Pacers-To-Bring-Back-Frank-Vogel-Next-Season

This guy is becoming the Scott Brooks of the eastern conference. A garbage coach that the team won't fire for whatever reason :lol

Offline senecadawg2

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Best game of the series that I've seen, so far. Not that either team is playing particularly well, just that it's been very evenly matched so far.

Go Spurs!
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Another officiating controversy. Refs missed a goaltend on Ibaka.
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Offline senecadawg2

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Poor Kevin Durant…

And then poor Manu Ginobli…
41 of the last 43, and he misses!

Overtime!

ETA: Tim Duncan is the man. He has more composure in a single hand than the entire Indiana Pacers team.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 09:26:46 PM by senecadawg2 »
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The Thunder are massively underachieving. You'd think a team with KD, 'brook, and Iblocka wouldn't completely crumble in a home game elimination OT which woulda forced a finals-berth-at-stake game 7.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Just... what an unbelievable Spurs win.  Everything of this team's greatness was on display tonight.  I just can't even man.

Hope TP is ready for Thursday.  I'm shaking with excitement for this rematch.
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Offline senecadawg2

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The Thunder are massively underachieving. You'd think a team with KD, 'brook, and Iblocka wouldn't completely crumble in a home game elimination OT which woulda forced a finals-berth-at-stake game 7.

The problem, I think, comes down to what happens when those guys don't get the support they need to compete with a complete team like the Spurs. It's a very formidable trio, including the second best player in the world, but there's just not enough production from the rest of the team. There are simply too many weapons on the Spurs side for those guys to contend with. Add to that that the Spurs' trio ain't too shabby themselves, and you've got a recipe for perpetual bridegroom. The Spurs have proven that they are the bride, for the time being, and I'm not sure it's necessarily underachieving to get knocked out by them in the conference finals.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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OKC's lack of depth obviously matters, but it's ultimately the coaching.  And I don't even totally know why.  Brooks ran a couple really great ATOs.  At the end of the game, they were playing Fisher, Westbrook, Jackson, Durant, and Ibaka.  Put Fisher in the corner and play four on four.  Jackson and Ibaka can't run plays?

Meanwhile, even without Tony Parker, the Spurs are still doing tons of motion on offense to get guys open for good passes.  They're the deeper team, but you can only have five guys on the floor.  Talent Wise, Ginobili/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan is not better than the Thunder's best five.  But they work with what they have so much better.
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Offline Azyiu

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I wouldn't blame KD entirely for the loss, rather I thought Westbrook held on to the ball a bit too much toward the end of regulation, and especially in OT. IMO, of course it is all after the fact now that, their offense should've gone through KD in OT. That was MVP time, and I was surprised Westbrook held on to the ball most of the time.

Anyway, first Finals rematch since the '97 and '98 between the Jazz and Bulls. So much similarities between now and then, eh? I am just hoping for a great series but sincerely wish Pop and Timmy win it this year.
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Offline Accelerando

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I'm so happy I can't even! I'm looking forward to this rematch. Just like last year...the two best teams in the league are meeting for the Championship. As it should be. I'm just hoping it goes our way this time. GO SPURS GO!

Offline ReaPsTA

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On one hand, I don't want to "blame" either KD or Westbrook for losing that game.  Especially Westbrook because he plays so hard.

But they didn't step up to the moment.  Both took a lot of bad shots and committed a lot of turnovers.  Your two best players can't be doing that.
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Offline Azyiu

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On one hand, I don't want to "blame" either KD or Westbrook for losing that game.  Especially Westbrook because he plays so hard.

But they didn't step up to the moment.  Both took a lot of bad shots and committed a lot of turnovers.  Your two best players can't be doing that.

The Thunder's rotation was kind of interestingly bad also. Guys like J-Lamb and Perry Jones got some minutes, but Caron Butler received a DNP CD?! That's why the Thunder bench was out scored 51-5!!!  :tdwn
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Scott Brooks has to be fired.  It's not just that the offense isn't good, it's that it isn't getting any better either.  He's not learning.

You look at guys like Pop, Carlisle, and Doc, and what distinguishes them is that they get better every year.  I watched Doc coach the Celtics for three years, and I thought his work with the Clippers was better than any of those Celtics teams from an X's and O's standpoint.  The Spurs offense was great least year, but this year they have more great sets and they run them better.  The offense Carlisle ran this year against the Spurs was insane.  He made Ellis look like a superstar.  These guys are great because they never just decide what they've already figured out is good enough.

Then you have the Thunder, who can't run a counter if their first action is stopped.  Again.  What's the point of keeping Brooks around?

EDIT 2:  Or look at Jason Kidd.  At the beginning of the season he sucked.  Even though the Nets lost to the Heat in 5, they found an identity, were motivated, and ran good stuff on offense and defense.  Brooks has only kinda found an identity for the Thunder, is admittedly good at creating a culture, but is very lacking in terms of the system he implements.

I just can't understand why it isn't a foregone conclusion he will be fired.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 11:17:35 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline Azyiu

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Oh, just remember the Finals is changed back to the 2-2-1-1-1 format! I wonder how much will that affect this rematch this time around.
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Offline KevShmev

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I didn't see a second of tonight's game, but I am bummed that the Spurs won; I wanted to see a Game 7.  That aside, the Heat/Spurs rematch should be great.

As for Vogel returning, I am not surprised. Given all of the problems they had, he still got them to Game 6 of the ECF (albeit in a weak conference), so I guess that counted for something.  If the rumors of Paul George sleeping with Roy Hibbert's wife are true, then it should be interesting to see what personnel changes they make in the offseason.

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Bringing back Vogel is totally reasonable.

I don't know how they can resign Stevenson.

They need to put Hibbert on the block.  Same with George Hill.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Looks like Hibbert is open to being traded.

Reap, agreed on Kidd. I hate the Nets but I love Kidd as a coach now.


Heat in 6. I want to believe.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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I've come to like the Heat. They seem like decent dudes. I think the Spurs will be too much though.
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Offline KevShmev

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Oh, just remember the Finals is changed back to the 2-2-1-1-1 format! I wonder how much will that affect this rematch this time around.

I forgot about that, and honestly I think that is to the Heat's benefit.  Let's say they split the first two in San Antonio.  In the 2-3-2 format, I am not sure I could see the Spurs losing three straight and going down in five, but in 2-2-1-1-1, I could see the Heat having the close-out game at home in Game 6.  Having said that, I still think the Spurs are the better team this year, but you just never know.

Offline Azyiu

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I forgot about that, and honestly I think that is to the Heat's benefit.  Let's say they split the first two in San Antonio.  In the 2-3-2 format, I am not sure I could see the Spurs losing three straight and going down in five, but in 2-2-1-1-1, I could see the Heat having the close-out game at home in Game 6.  Having said that, I still think the Spurs are the better team this year, but you just never know.

The 2-2-1-1-1 Finals format just hasn't been done in like 30 years, and I still like to think it will have some crazy consequences that affect both teams; but I just can't quite put my finger on anything tangible at this time.

As for the Spurs, I too think they are the more disciplined and overall slightly better team (after the big three, their talent level drops off stiffly; and D-Wade ain't exactly at a 100% in these playoffs health-wise) then the Heat. Having said that, the Spurs really haven't been a strong road team in these playoffs. Against the Heat, they simply can't just rely on home court either. So although I picked the Spurs in 6, deep down I kind of doubt if they have what it takes to win at least 1 game in Miami this year. We will see.
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Offline Dimitrius

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I don't think the format will affect either team.

As for the series, as has been said in this thread, the Heat cannot come out lazily for a half in any game. The Spurs will crushed them if they do. Looking forward to another great series from these two teams!
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Offline j

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The Thunder have problems.  Brooks seems like he must be on another planet at times, and Westbrook plays like a massively gifted rec center chucker.  Durant is already one of the best players in the league and has the potential to get even better, but he's stagnating in this isolation-long-jumper-reliant offense.  The pieces are there; Ibaka is key with Perkins off the bench, Jackson is hugely underrated, Adams is going to be good, etc.  They need somebody who can make it all come together.

IMO, part of that process is dealing Westbrook.  He's a wild card; clearly Brooks can't (or won't) try to rein him in at all, and for every impressive explosion for 30-8-7, there are three or four outings where he goes 1/14 from the field with 10 turnovers.  His decision making in crucial situations is costly.  He is detrimental to a team dynamic.  I know Durant would never admit it ("it's all about the team/winning, etc"), but WB absolutely takes away from him in more ways than one, and I suspect deep down he is not okay with that.  Not only that but you know there would be a lot of interest around the league, so OKC ought to shop him around a little and see what they can get.

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This format is the way it should be.  Not the 2-3-2.  that format does not help the home team.  You work all year to have home court and it should mean something.
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Offline KevShmev

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I watched the end of the 4th Q and OT this morning (I had DVR'd it) and Westbrook definitely killed him them in OT with his attempt at playing hero ball.  How do you go possession after possession with Durant not touching the ball??  The one possession in OT was hilariously bad as Westbrook dribbled for a few seconds, tried to drive, but the defender played him well, causing him to retreat, and when he did, he dribbled once or twice and then just hoisted up a random jump shot, which missed of course.  Awful offense.  They need a coach who can reign him in when need be.  They'll never win a championship with the current dynamic they have in place.

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Stat of the game for me: OKC's starters scored 102 of their 107 points. You can't beat a team with depth that way, and San Antonio was just plain deeper.
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The one possession in OT was hilariously bad as Westbrook dribbled for a few seconds, tried to drive, but the defender played him well, causing him to retreat, and when he did, he dribbled once or twice and then just hoisted up a random jump shot, which missed of course.

I remember that possession.  15 seconds off the shot clock and not a single pass.  Cringeworthy.

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This format is the way it should be.  Not the 2-3-2.  that format does not help the home team.  You work all year to have home court and it should mean something.

Seriously. Assuming there isn't a big gap in strength between both conference's #1 seeds (the teams who are obviously expected to be in the finals each year), it's fairly reasonable to expect the most common outcome to be the home team winning each game (not as a whole but, if you were to look at it game by game, I doubt the road team has won the majority of game ones, game twos, etc. all the way to game sevens in NBA finals history) so, barring the less likely road team upset, this means the 2-3-2 format would have the team with homecourt "advantage" playing elimination games in games 6 and 7. Yeah, it does even it out a bit since the lesser team gets one less home game but it's called "homecourt advantage", not "50/50 shot at a title through attempts at balancing the competitive factors".
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Offline ReaPsTA

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I looked it up once.  In Past NBA finals, the home team did better under 2-3-2 than 2-2-1-1-1.  Like Kev said, the game 6 at home for the away team is huge.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Here's why I don't understand OKC's lack of an offense:

This is the play OKC ran to try and get KD a game tying three

Fisher and Westbrook drag their defenders away from the shot.  As Durant curls into the shot, Ibaka sets a pick to stop Leonard.  Duncan has to sag low to defend the paint.  By the time he realizes what's happening, KD's already getting the ball for good shot.  No one's quite there to guard him.

This is all really basic stuff, but so is everything the Spurs run.  Good basketball isn't complicated.  And it seems like Brooks at least somewhat understands it.  So why not run a real offense???

EDIT:  I know a lot of the "Westbrook and Durant can't co-exist" stuff is just drama.  But at this high a level, you can't ignore it.  You can't have Westbrook shooting more than Durant.  I know the impulse is to accept Westbrook's flaws, but they're too detrimental to the team.  Originally, when the controversy flared up, it was reasonable to point out what Westbrook brings to the Thunder.  But now, I think the "don't bash Westbrook" argument has become its own form of groupthink that has no relation to reality.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 04:10:46 PM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline ReaPsTA

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So... it seems like Love wants to go to Boston.  Unless he's really running some next level game.

Flip shouldn't be dumb here.  This hurts Love's trade value, but he can still get fair value for him in a deal.  Is not trading him to Boston, loaded with draft picks and able to provide salary relief, really better than letting him walk in free agency for nothing?

If Flip waits until the trade deadline, Love's value will be even lower.  Remember how toxic the Melo and Asik situations were?  This would be worse.
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Offline kingshmegland

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We hope Love loves Boston
« Reply #1363 on: June 02, 2014, 11:38:24 AM »
So... it seems like Love wants to go to Boston.  Unless he's really running some next level game.

Flip shouldn't be dumb here.  This hurts Love's trade value, but he can still get fair value for him in a deal.  Is not trading him to Boston, loaded with draft picks and able to provide salary relief, really better than letting him walk in free agency for nothing?

If Flip waits until the trade deadline, Love's value will be even lower.  Remember how toxic the Melo and Asik situations were?  This would be worse.

Well, I'll bet he's scouting each city that has interest in him really.  It's a good way to get a pulse of the city and not collude*wink wink* with the teams while under contract.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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You know that the Celtics management got texts this weekend saying "Love's here.  Don't even be in the building."
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