Author Topic: 2013-14 NBA thread v. Adam Silver Lays the Pipe on Donald Sterling 2014antigoon  (Read 96914 times)

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Offline ReaPsTA

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Gotta love Doc just not giving a crap during the postgame interview. I wonder if the NBA should switch to hockey style, where an objective referee reviews these plays in a remote location.

Doc looked really close to just completely losing his shit.  He was more composed when talking about Sterling.

EDIT:  Wow.  Just looked at the replay.  Jackson pushes it out of bounds with his hand.

Doc might be right about them giving it to the Thunder to make up for them not calling a foul on Barnes.  But you CANNOT do that.  That's beyond shady.  It's openly corrupt.

NBA so crooked.  So disappointing.  I'm less confident that Silver will handle this right, with his bullshit about how NBA refs are the best in the world.

EDIT 2:  Also, if you look carefully, what happens in Barnes slaps the ball but then Jackson touches it again.  Never seen a strip automatically called out on defense if the offense touches it again before going out.

EDIT 3:  Really questionable foul on Westbrook at the end too.  Technically a foul, but refs let worse contact than that go all the time during the end of games.  Why make that call now?  Even with the increased emphasis on calling fouls on jumpshooters, they've tended to be looser about it at the end of games.

EDIT 4:  Tony Brothers said the replay was inconclusive.  Doesn't the NBA do eyesight checks on its refs to make sure they can see what's happening?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 12:14:30 AM by ReaPsTA »
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Offline j

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^Barnes never even touched the ball!  He hit Jackson's hand, but the ref didn't call the foul real-time, so they are supposed to call the review based on the original call on the floor, which is was the ball out of bounds off of Barnes or Jackson.  Frankly, they should be able to go back and say "nevermind, he was fouled."  Wouldn't change the flow of the game since they're already reviewing the play.

The ghost foul on Westbrook's retarded three at the end was totally unnecessary too.  CP is dumb for even crowding him that much, but calling that foul with almost zero contact on a deep prayer three is just plain bullshit.  But that combined with two horrible turnovers makes that probably the worst 30 second stretch of Chris Paul's career.

The whole system is problematic to begin with, but then add in that these officials have to be either completely incompetent or crooked and it's just an enormous clusterfuck.

-J

Offline ReaPsTA

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^Barnes never even touched the ball!  He hit Jackson's hand,

Apparently, if you slap someones hand and that makes them drop the ball, it's still the offense's ball.  This is the argument that contrarians are using to say it should be Thunder ball.

Problem is that Jackson then pushes the ball out of bounds, which you can clearly see from the top angle.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Steve Kerr signs 5 year deal to coach Warriors.

This is not a good start for Phil Jackson's tenure.
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Offline black_biff_stadler

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Perhaps he's already had his fill of Phil and didn't kerr to be a part of their organization.
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Offline black_biff_stadler

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So, will the Heat actually show up for the ECF or will they even need to considering the patsies they'll end up playing?
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Offline Syzzle

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Pierce looked like he was about to cry :lol

Also a healthy Dwyane Wade= It might be time for coach Pop to panic.

Offline senecadawg2

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Don't get ahead of yourself. Pop has no reason to panic.

Also, the officiating tonight was terrible, again. 
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The Spurs are a well oiled machine right now. The Heat are lackadaisical and playing fast and loose. The Heat have way more to prove right now despite being the two-time current.
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Offline Syzzle

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You expect them to take any team in the east seriously? They don't have to prove anything until someone actually presents a challenge which probably won't be until the Finals.

Offline ReaPsTA

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The Heat though have, very wisely, been playing hard this whole playoffs.  They beat the Bobcats in 4 and a perfectly decent Nets team in 5.  If they can win the ECF in 5 or 6 games (totally possible) they'll go into the finals far better rested than they did last year (remember, they weren't trying to maintain a historical winning streak this season either).

No matter what happens in the Western Conference, they'll be facing probably their biggest finals challenge this year.  Every little advantage they eek out is to their benefit.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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I'd be shocked if the Heat won the title again to be honest. The Clippers, Spurs, and Thunder are all significantly better teams. The Heat would need an A+ game from either LeBron or Wade every night to have a chance.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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I'm not betting on the Heat to win either.  But, so far this playoffs, they're taking care of business.  Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but so far it seems like LeBron genuinely in the mindset of "I have to play my best game every night if we're going to win this thing."  Nobody wants to play LeBron when he's at his best.
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Offline KevShmev

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Even though it has been negative talk, this is the most Chris Paul has ever been talked about in the playoffs.  I had a conversation with a friend the other day, and he was surprised that I didn't think Paul was as great as everyone else does, and I was like, "Well, 95% of my NBA watching is the playoffs, and his teams never make it far in the playoffs, so I don't see him play a lot." :lol :lol  Don't get me wrong, the guy is a great player for sure - that has been obvious for much of this series - but at some point, given the rep he has, even if you don't win a championship, you need to be playing in June.

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You need to produce under pressure.  Tonight's an elimination game.  What's CP3 going to show us?
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Doc fined 25k for criticizing the refs.  NBA releases statement defending their decision.

The NBA... where blatant corruption happens!

That said, I'm curious how tonight's game will be officiated.  I don't think the league will tell the refs "go easy on the Clippers," but you know they said stuff like "don't call cheap fouls on jump shooters at the end of the game," "put more effort into reviewing calls at the end of the game," and "you guys basically gave Durant points in game 5, don't let him make you look stupid when he goes to the line."

A lot of people say "if you think the NBA is rigged, then why not bet like it is and make tons of money?"  Believe me, if I gambled on Basketball, I'd bet the Clippers tonight.  The league doesn't want them to lose, because it would really embarrass them.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Even though it has been negative talk, this is the most Chris Paul has ever been talked about in the playoffs.  I had a conversation with a friend the other day, and he was surprised that I didn't think Paul was as great as everyone else does, and I was like, "Well, 95% of my NBA watching is the playoffs, and his teams never make it far in the playoffs, so I don't see him play a lot." :lol :lol  Don't get me wrong, the guy is a great player for sure - that has been obvious for much of this series - but at some point, given the rep he has, even if you don't win a championship, you need to be playing in June.

Paul has actually played really well in the playoffs, his teams just aren't that good. I must say that he did get what he deserved in Game 5; if you make it a habit of trying to trick referees, eventually it's going to come back to bite you.
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Offline antigoon

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Perhaps he's already had his fill of Phil and didn't kerr to be a part of their organization.

The only good thing to come of this is no Steve Kerr puns in New York.

Offline KevShmev

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Doc fined 25k for criticizing the refs.  NBA releases statement defending their decision.

The NBA... where blatant corruption happens!

That said, I'm curious how tonight's game will be officiated.  I don't think the league will tell the refs "go easy on the Clippers," but you know they said stuff like "don't call cheap fouls on jump shooters at the end of the game," "put more effort into reviewing calls at the end of the game," and "you guys basically gave Durant points in game 5, don't let him make you look stupid when he goes to the line."

A lot of people say "if you think the NBA is rigged, then why not bet like it is and make tons of money?"  Believe me, if I gambled on Basketball, I'd bet the Clippers tonight.  The league doesn't want them to lose, because it would really embarrass them.

Well, you'd have to lay 4 1/2, and that could go either way, especially if it is close at the end (where free throws made by the winning team and if the losing team scores a bucket or two at the end, often dictate who covers those type of spreads), but I do think the Clippers will win and force a Game 7.  And I suspect they will get the benefit of the calls at the end of the game to make sure there is a Game 7.  It's how the NBA has operated for as long as I've been watching.

Paul has actually played really well in the playoffs, his teams just aren't that good. I must say that he did get what he deserved in Game 5; if you make it a habit of trying to trick referees, eventually it's going to come back to bite you.

Yeah, he is a notorious flopper.

Offline Syzzle

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Who isn't a flopper in todays league? Durant,CP3,Griffin and Westbrook are some of the biggest floppers though I'm shocked we haven't seen any fines for flopping during this series.

Offline j

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I'd be shocked if the Heat won the title again to be honest. The Clippers, Spurs, and Thunder are all significantly better teams. The Heat would need an A+ game from either LeBron or Wade every night to have a chance.

I definitely don't think the Clippers and Thunder are "significantly better" than the Heat, or better at all really.  The Spurs are a better team, but will they still be bringing it by the time the Finals roll around, we'll see.

Doc fined 25k for criticizing the refs.  NBA releases statement defending their decision.

Saw that shit coming from a mile away.  The lack of accountability for these guys is astounding.

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The league doesn't want them to lose, because it would really embarrass them.

True, but the league wants to see KD vs. LeBron, and probably wants Sterling's team out as well.  The Thunder will still take the series.  Where it may get interesting is when some serious intervention is needed to boost the Thunder over the Spurs.

-J

Offline KevShmev

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OKC matches up well against the Spurs, unlike Portland, so the Thunder beating them without any assistance is very possible. 

Offline ReaPsTA

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True, but the league wants to see KD vs. LeBron, and probably wants Sterling's team out as well.  The Thunder will still take the series.

Assuming the league's rigged (which it probably isn't, but what happens makes more sense if it is), they're in a tough situation.  If the Clips lose, it puts an asterisk next to the Thunder's victory, which the league doesn't want.  But, it's also problematic when it comes to how the league usually fixes series.  Generally, they make sure to push it to seven and then make sure the last game's actually reffed competently.  In this case, if they let the Clips win game 6, they might need to do some 2010 finals game 7 treatment for the Thunder.  It will be obvious, but they need their KD vs. LeBron apparently.

What I find funny is that Silver wants the NBA to become the most popular sport in America.  Hard to do when it seems rigged.
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Offline KevShmev

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Okay, I wouldn't go that far with it. :lol :lol

Do I think certain games are called a certain way because the league wants series to go longer or whatever? Absolutely.  But to say the league is fixed or rigged is a bit over the top. 

I'll use the 2009 ECF between Cleveland and Orlando as an example.  Everyone was anticipating a James/Bryant match-up in the finals, but the Magic ruined it by upsetting the Cavs, and in Game 3 of that series, every close call went the Cavs way, yet the Magic so thoroughly outplayed them that it didn't matter; the Magic still won.  So, that was an example of a game being called a certain way to try and get a certain result, yet the players ultimately decided it.  Had it been rigged or fixed, they would have done everything in their power to made sure the Cavs won.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Here's the problem.  Let's say God told me this: "You have to tell me, yes or no, if you think the NBA deliberately rigs the outcomes of its games to produce certain results.  Since I'm god, I know the actual answer.  If you answer wrong, you'll be damned forever."  I'd answer no.  But, whenever I chose to analyze the NBA as if it were rigged, all the sudden everything that happens makes sense.  At the very least, it's deeply corrupt.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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They did it the hard way, but the Pacers made it right back to where they're supposed to be, the Eastern Conference Finals. Hopefully, they can beat the Heat.

Offline KevShmev

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Case in point, ReaP: Westbrook and Perkins are both already in foul trouble, which makes it much harder for the Thunder to win this game.  The league wants a Game 7.  This is so predictable. :lol :lol

As for the Pacers, if you are a fan of the sport, you should be rooting for the Heat, since Heat vs. any of the top 3 West teams will be a great final.  Pacers vs any of them would be a bludgeoning.

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No way in hell the Clips would bludgeon the Pacers. They're way too streaky and are incapable of playing a full 48 of competent defense. I say this with them actually being one of my favorite NBA teams.
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Offline j

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Some seriously sketchy calls here in the 4th.

I agree with Reap: I can't come out and say the NBA fixes games, because I just don't know.  All I can say is the way things always seem to play out is very, very convenient.

-J

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I'm not so sure about the East, but the Western Conference finals are going to be interesting! The Spurs are the better team, in my opinion, and are riding a bit more momentum, but OKC has a decent shot as well. Durant is an absolute beast and there's no doubt in my mind that he'll play big throughout the series. I look forward to seeing if OKC can pull together enough of a supporting cast to mitigate San Antonio's advantage in the experience, balance, and consistency departments.

If I had to put money on it I'd say Spurs in 6 or 7.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Obviously I'm disappointed that the Clips lost, but the referring in that game was just amazing.  Not because it was biased, but because it was incompetent.  The refs could never figure out if they were calling the game loose or tight.  You'd see them let fouls go and then call the same fouls the next play.  They called almost every charge/block wrong.

It felt like every play was decided purely by luck, in terms of whether the ref was going to call a foul that play, and what team the foul was going to be on.  No logic to it.

I can't stress this enough - Football refs make mistakes all the time, but are basically professional and usually at least have some logic to what they're doing.  I almost never have a bad taste in my mouth after a Football game because of the officiating.  On the other hand, virtually no one else in the working world can be as incompetent at their jobs as NBA officials, or they'd be fired. 

If the NBA wants to grow their sport, they have to figure this out.  The game will not grow if the officiating is this bad.  As someone who considers himself a relatively devoted NBA fan, I know for a fact that I watch less basketball because of the officiating.  Putting up with the bullshit is too frustrating.
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Incompetence and bias factor big time into the sad state of officiating in the NBA, but I feel like there are some profoundly shitty rules that also play a role.  Calling a charge versus a block basically IS a 50/50 toss up at this point.  The player doesn't necessarily have to have established position or even be on the ground (as we saw tonight), and you have guys understandably trying to take advantage of the officials' obvious inability to enforce the rule.  The degree and nature of contact allowed in post play is ambiguous.  The shove in the back on the rebound is a widely ignored phenomenon.  The focus just seems to be constantly on the wrong things and there's frankly too much attempt by the officials to control the game via rules that are poorly defined to begin with.

Also as a (sort of) critic of Durant at times, I feel like I should acknowledge that he had an absolutely monstrous game.

-J

Offline ReaPsTA

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Incompetence and bias factor big time into the sad state of officiating in the NBA, but I feel like there are some profoundly shitty rules that also play a role.

Yeah.  One of the most brilliant things Football did was simplify their rule book.  It made the officiating much less controversial.

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Calling a charge versus a block basically IS a 50/50 toss up at this point.  The player doesn't necessarily have to have established position or even be on the ground (as we saw tonight), and you have guys understandably trying to take advantage of the officials' obvious inability to enforce the rule.

Yeah.  Like, apparently Blake was blocking Westbrook at one point because, even though his feet were planted, Westbrook moved to the side and made contact with Griffin's side, making it a block.

Block/charge for stationary defenders needs to be rewritten so the only question is if the defender's feet were planted before contact outside of the restricted area.  I'm sure a lot of mistakes would still be made, but the reduced over-thinking on the refs' part would improve accuracy.

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The degree and nature of contact allowed in post play is ambiguous.  The shove in the back on the rebound is a widely ignored phenomenon.  The focus just seems to be constantly on the wrong things and there's frankly too much attempt by the officials to control the game via rules that are poorly defined to begin with.

This is a huge one.  The official rules forbid pretty much all contact in the post, but in reality that's impossible to enforce.  You're right that, inevitably, the refs decide to just call the game with no consistency based on how they want to call it.  As a post player, it's impossible to know game-to-game what the limits are.  I have no idea how to rewrite these rules though.

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Also as a (sort of) critic of Durant at times, I feel like I should acknowledge that he had an absolutely monstrous game.

-J

Durant is amazing.

EDIT:  Did you notice how, during the game, they called very few fouls on jumpshooters?  After making a huge deal out of it for weeks, the league realized it had gotten out of control with the CP3 foul at the end of game 5, so they told the refs to roll that business back.  Nobody knows what they're doing.  These people are paid too much to be this incompetent.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Meh. I don't think the league is rigged. I think that it's very hard sport to officiate, refs are biased toward superstars - possibly because they feel intimidated by them -, and the rule book kind of sucks. There have been too many examples of imperfect match-ups; for example, the 2009 Finals would have been the biggest ever if LeBron and Kobe were in it, but the Cavs couldn't beat the Magic despite 38/8/8 from LeBron. It would have been pretty easy for the league to rig that series if they wanted to, but it didn't happen. And there are many more examples like that.
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Offline KevShmev

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Isn't the Thunder's offense maddening to watch? I lost track of how many times they just dribble the shot clock down and then just launch a jump shot.  It's almost like, they have no set plays to run on offense.  And it works a lot cause Durant and Westbrook are great shot makers, but fundamentally it is a train wreck of an approach.