Final Fantasy Discussion Thread

[Genowyn]

 

[yorost]

I'm playing II on the PSP.  I've had Guy doing nothing but defending with two shields or throwing the occasional item at another player, so at this point, halfway about, when he's on the defend command his evasion rating on physical attacks must be near 99% or something.    All I ever see is 'miss' by his character!  Maybe I should have him learn something else, he seems to have perfected this one.

For those of you that have not played II, your characters essentially get good at the things the more they do them.  I've built a master at being an observer!

[j]

GameInformer did a top 200 games of all time list, and VI (III) came in 8th place and was said to be what perfected 2D RPGs. Needless to say, I completely agree. 

  indeed.

-J

[7StringedBeast]

FF VI (III in the US) is the best game ever made.  To me it is a perfect game.  I cannot flaw it on anything.  Kefka is the best.  His lines in that game are great.  The storyline for III is awesome.  The characters kick so much ass.  Sabin, Shadow, Umaro, GoGo, and Edgar FTW.  I've beated this game multiple times.  At some point I will want to go back and play it again.

Currently I am playing VII for the first time.  So far I really like it.  I am still on disc 1.  It hasn't beaten out III for me yet though.

[Shadoshi]

FF VI (III in the US) is the best game ever made.  To me it is a perfect game.  I cannot flaw it on anything.  Kefka is the best.  His lines in that game are great.  The storyline for III is awesome.  The characters kick so much ass.  Sabin, Shadow, Umaro, GoGo, and Edgar FTW.  I've beated this game multiple times.  At some point I will want to go back and play it again.

I love you.

[j]

FF VI (III in the US) is the best game ever made.  To me it is a perfect game.  I cannot flaw it on anything.  Kefka is the best.  His lines in that game are great.  The storyline for III is awesome.  The characters kick so much ass.  Sabin, Shadow, Umaro, GoGo, and Edgar FTW.  I've beated this game multiple times.  At some point I will want to go back and play it again.

I love you.

Me too.

-J

[7StringedBeast]

FF VI (III in the US) is the best game ever made.  To me it is a perfect game.  I cannot flaw it on anything.  Kefka is the best.  His lines in that game are great.  The storyline for III is awesome.  The characters kick so much ass.  Sabin, Shadow, Umaro, GoGo, and Edgar FTW.  I've beated this game multiple times.  At some point I will want to go back and play it again.

I love you.

Me too.

-J

Aww gee thanks guys!      

[yorost]

I finished X.

That was one very long straight line.  Rarely was there ever any wonder about where to go as it was literally a straight path you could never dream of deviating from, made worse by the fact that they had a red arrow always telling you where to go in case you didn't understand the implied move forward at all times.  I understand why a story based game is directed, but not why it has to be this blatant pretty much everywhere in the game.

Lulu, what the fuck is going on with her celebration?  Lean over and show me your over-sized boobs wiggle?  What kind of celebration is that?  I did come to accept her by the end of the game, but that's because I was curious what in the world she would say much of the time so talked to her first.  Apparently this triggered her being a good friend of mine and gave me extra cut scenes with her.  Oh well, now we're friends and she's not so bad once you know her, but holy crap, get a new celebration after battle!

Tidus, Jecht, Auron, and Rikku were all great characters the entire way.

Blitzball, glad they didn't make me play more than that one stupid game.  Speaking of blitzball, I wasn't even satisfied with Wakka attacking until I got one customized the had spikes on it.

With the exception of being able to swap characters on the fly the battle system seemed like a step down from the Playstation One games in the series.  It was enjoyable, but I rarely felt challenged in battle while running along that straight line.  The worst it got would be you don't know if you'll make it to the next save point so turn around and go back... which just results in excess spheres filled in.

I liked the story, but this is probably a fantastic example of how to make someone feel as though they are stepping through a movie/story instead of playing a game.

At the end of the day it was enjoyable, though, yet for a Final Fantasy game this is one of the weakest entries.  I like more open worlds in the series.  We'll see how it goes, but despite the negativity towards the game I get the feeling I will like X-2 much more than X if I play it.

[Ultimetalhead]

I don't think there exists a single being in the universe that likes X-2 more than X. But, if you're confident, play it, and then post your reaction here for some serious lulz.

In other news, Final Fantasy XIII is in about 2 months.

[Rina]

I liked X, and VII, but X-2 was, well, fun for a while, but yeah, definately not as good as X.

Although X got annoying with the cheesy dialogue. (The laughing scene with Tidus and Yuna makes me cringe)

[AcidLameLTE]

X-2 is shit. X is fucking immense.

[yorost]

...except X isn't fucking immense, it is just a directed walkthrough.  If they didn't spell out the entire story there really wasn't much reason to keep walking.

The reason I think I'll like X-2 more than X is because I like having more freedom to explore.  My opinion of X isn't terribly high so X-2 doesn't have to be a great game for me to like it more than X.

[Ultimetalhead]

...except X isn't fucking immense, it is just a directed walkthrough.  If they didn't spell out the entire story there really wasn't much reason to keep walking.

See, I've never understood these thoughts. Why would you want a huge immense area with one objective, and nearly endless places to get lost? I'd much rather just know where to go. Unless there's something else to do, I don't even want to deal with it. I only like it in sandbox games like GTA and inFamous.

[Rina]

...except X isn't fucking immense, it is just a directed walkthrough.  If they didn't spell out the entire story there really wasn't much reason to keep walking.

See, I've never understood these thoughts. Why would you want a huge immense area with one objective, and nearly endless places to get lost? I'd much rather just know where to go. Unless there's something else to do, I don't even want to deal with it. I only like it in sandbox games like GTA and inFamous.

I agree, I get annoyed if I don't know what to do next in games or if it's a huge area that isn't needed that I'm gonna get lost in the whole time. (Again, unless it's a sandbox game)  But in this kind've game, I liked just knowing where to go and what to do. I'd rather the creators just spend more time making the game better in general, then wasting time making it bigger.

[yorost]

The real answer to that question, from my perspective, could only be that I like that kind of gameplay more.  I know that is unsatisfactory, but I can only give you some possible reasons as to why I feel that way, as I don't really know why I prefer it.

Maybe I like the discovery aspect of the game, exploration/non-linear play is one thing that differentiates a game from movies or books.  Getting hints from npc's in the game and using dialogue to discover where you should go next is something I enjoy on top of this.  Sort of helps you immerse yourself into the world instead of feeling more like an observer of a set story.

[j]

I tend to agree with you, yorost.  I actually thought FFX's story was great, and it was the main draw for me.  The total linearity and lack of exploration--as well as the sub-par battle system--were turn-offs, but the story kept me playing.  I even thought the primary characters were kind of weak (Tidus and Yuna), although they had their moments and fit into the plot acceptably.

Overall, it falls around the middle of the pack in terms of my favorite Final Fantasy games.  Still a very solid game, just not as great as several other entries in the series, IMO.

-J

[ariich]

For me the much bigger priority with RPG's is story. I'm not that bothered by gameplay (unless it's irritatingly bad) and I'm not all that fussed about all that degree of choice of what to do as long there's at least some (which there is in X, as I remember doing a fair few things that weren't at all necessary).

[AcidLameLTE]

...except X isn't fucking immense, it is just a directed walkthrough.  If they didn't spell out the entire story there really wasn't much reason to keep walking.

...except it is fucking immense. I really liked the battle system in it (I don't understand the complaints about it). The sphere grid was a nice change (I like the fact that you can pretty much make any character learn anything you want them to learn). This is probably the only FF game, excluding 8, where I actually thought the summons were useful. It had Bender in it (). The story was great. Some of the voice acting wasn't that brilliant but on the whole, I think it really added to the game.

There was plenty of exploration to do with the sidequests.

[yorost]

The problem with the battle system was it seemed like it was just a downgrade from the active time battle system it replaced.  Not necessarily bad in itself, but it was a change for the worse.  

The sphere grid didn't give you as much control as you seem to imply it did.  For the most part the spheres that give you more freedom aren't easily accessible early in the game anyways.  The characters mostly do have to follow their set pattern and can branch more as the game goes on.  You need more spheres to change your characters, which isn't a whole big difference to just leveling up a character so their weaker stats are now acceptable.  Spheres were too plentiful, I filled in everything I could and still had too many.  By the time you can have every character learning anything you want them to learn you'll be overpowered to the point it doesn't matter.  Plus, this is probably the most restrictive Final Fantasy game for equipment, can anything be used by more than one character?

Summons are definitely useful in IV, VII, and XII as well.

A limited number of short branches for sidequests and backtracking the same straight line for others is not exploration.  Searching the world map was move the cursor around and click to see if it tells you something is there, wonderfully thought out!  The freedom to move around the world in this game was only achieved when you were ready to face Sin, that is restrictive.  I enjoyed seeing Jecht's spheres, but it still required being on that straight line.  This game could have been on rails with stops for battle and cutscenes.

Yes, I definitely enjoyed the story, that was the best part of the game.  The game itself was a mundane offering that let you keep seeing more of the story.

I don't want to give the impression I disliked X, it was good, just nothing more than that.

[AcidLameLTE]

I don't see how it was a downgrade.

You have shit loads of spheres so you can beef up your summons. That's when you run out of spheres.

Never played IV. Didn't use the summon characters in VII and XII was crap.

Why would you need freedom at any other times in the game? 90% of the time, sidequests in FF games are too difficult to do until the end of the game anyway.

[ehra]

Why would you need freedom at any other times in the game? 90% of the time, sidequests in FF games are too difficult to do until the end of the game anyway.

It's less about "needing" the freedom and more about wanting it. The sphere grid dangles it just out of reach until you reach the point where it doesn't matter anymore. Part of the reason I still play FF Tactics and some of the older FF games is because I can customize my party the way I want it from practically the very beginning, not at the end of the game when everyone's pretty much a god anyway.

[AcidLameLTE]

I've never really like Square's strategy/tactical games. Particularly the sequel to XII on the DS.

[yorost]

Beefing up summons wasn't that useful, filling in spheres for Yuna was a much cheaper and faster way to make them stronger.  I don't know the exact correlation, but as Yuna grew in strength so do all the summons.  Why spend 40 spheres for a single point stat increase on one of the summons when a few spheres to Yuna probably achieves the same thing to all of the summons?  I did beef up Shiva as much as I could when I had excessive spheres, but her relative placement in the summons pecking order didn't change much.

XII didn't have as good a story as X, but nearly every other aspect was superior, that was a great game.

I don't care so much about sidequests, and by the end of the game they can start to feel like chores in most any game as you can start to just feel the strong urge to see the end of the story.  Your 90% remark is absurd, you know, right?

I get that you probably like a directed game, but I prefer ones where part of the game is figuring out where to go and not always being sure you're headed in the right direction.  Being able to have more freedom to visit old places or visit places the story doesn't need you to be at yet enhances the experience for me.

I don't need you to agree with my tastes, I'm just explaining them and why I disagree with you.

[AcidLameLTE]

Exaggeration - it doesn't exist on the internet. Apparently (referencing the 90% thing).

I play plenty of open world games and enjoy them. I just don't see why story heavy games have to have such a large exploration option to make them a good game. If anything, I think it distracts from it.

The problem with XII was that it was boring. The battle system was sooooo boring. You pretty much just sat there and watched your characters do everything while making the occasional command. It's story was boring. The sidequests were boring. The characters were boring. The weird board thing for learning skills was rubbish compared to the sphere grid.

I don't need you to agree with my tastes, I'm just explaining them and why I disagree with you.

Good job of assuming I wasn't doing the same thing.

[Ultimetalhead]

The problem with XII was that it was boring. The battle system was sooooo boring. You pretty much just sat there and watched your characters do everything while making the occasional command. It's story was boring. The sidequests were boring. The characters were boring. The weird board thing for learning skills was rubbish compared to the sphere grid.

I agree with you pretty much everywhere here. But, you say that the only thing you're doing is sitting there watching while you make the occasional command. Isn't that pretty much the same deal with X, just a different mask on it?

The active-time battle system made RPGs not seem like board games. It added a super exciting aspect to the series.

[ariich]

XII didn't have as good a story as X, but nearly every other aspect was superior, that was a great game.

Completely agree. The story was weak by FF standards, but the gameplay was by far my favourite from all the games, so overall I rank it upper middle.

[Tuneman]

Is VII the one with Sephroth?

Masterpiece

[sonatafanica]

Is VII the one with Sephiroth?

Masterpiece

[AcidLameLTE]

I agree with you pretty much everywhere here. But, you say that the only thing you're doing is sitting there watching while you make the occasional command. Isn't that pretty much the same deal with X, just a different mask on it?

Well, I prefer it to using pre-programmed instructions and having to pause a fight to force any manual commands. The battle system in X makes it feel like I have more control over what I'm doing. I also really liked the fact that you could swap out characters etc.

[j]

XII didn't have as good a story as X, but nearly every other aspect was superior, that was a great game.

Completely agree. The story was weak by FF standards, but the gameplay was by far my favourite from all the games, so overall I rank it upper middle.

Me too, and for the same reasons.  Parts of XII could be tedious, but I really enjoyed the vast majority of it.

The problem with the battle system was it seemed like it was just a downgrade from the active time battle system it replaced.  Not necessarily bad in itself, but it was a change for the worse. 

This is pretty much what I took away from it.  There was little depth to the battle system and it really seemed like a step back from previous FF games.

I will reiterate that I think X has one of the top two or three stories in the entire series.  I loved it when I played it, but have never since felt the urge to play it again, which can't be said about any other Final Fantasy.

-J

[yorost]

Exaggeration - it doesn't exist on the internet. Apparently (referencing the 90% thing).

Exaggeration can still make an implication.  The number wasn't relevant, but you certainly implied that the end of the game is when the bulk of sidequests must be done in Final Fantasy games.  That is absurd, not the exaggeration itself.

The problem with XII was that it was boring. The battle system was sooooo boring. You pretty much just sat there and watched your characters do everything while making the occasional command. It's story was boring. The sidequests were boring. The characters were boring. The weird board thing for learning skills was rubbish compared to the sphere grid.

Why use the gambits at all if you don't like them?  You never had to use them, the system was only there if you wanted to utilize it.

There were so many sidequests throughout the entire game in XII that you could pick and choose, though, and many of them were very entertaining.  What were sidequests in X that you couldn't stumble upon in XII?

I don't know, I like the characters in XII.

You praise the sphere grid for the freedom it grants you in developing a character then call the one in XII rubbish?  The license board fits more how you described the sphere grid than the sphere grid even does. 

I don't need you to agree with my tastes, I'm just explaining them and why I disagree with you.

Good job of assuming I wasn't doing the same thing.

I didn't assume, I just said it in case you thought I was saying your opinion was wrong.

[AcidLameLTE]

Exaggeration - it doesn't exist on the internet. Apparently (referencing the 90% thing).

Exaggeration can still make an implication.  The number wasn't relevant, but you certainly implied that the end of the game is when the bulk of sidequests must be done in Final Fantasy games.  That is absurd, not the exaggeration itself.

Look at Final Fantasy VII then. There's three or four during the beginning (getting the extra characters and the one where your materia is stolen) and then all the other ones are at the end (fighting all the weapons, that stupid forest with all the puzzles, getting all the awesome materia (which either involves having an insanely good chocobo or going to the last area of the game or having a submarine) etc.

I don't understand why I wouldn't use the gambits. Pausing the game every second would have been a nightmare.

Never said the license board didn't grant you freedom, I just didn't like it.

I don't need you to agree with my tastes, I'm just explaining them and why I disagree with you.

Good job of assuming I wasn't doing the same thing.

I didn't assume, I just said it in case you thought I was saying your opinion was wrong.

Fair enough.

[Arcaeus]

Just beat Crisis Core. It's obviously far from perfect, and the battle system wasn't really my thing (I prefer the oldschool ATB system, and I got by by doing nothing but Thundaga), but I still enjoyed it, which is surprising, considering the number of things that could have gone wrong with a FFVII prequel.

I had no fucking clue what Genesis's goal the entire game was, but I liked the story, and the ending was certainly a tearjerker. It makes sense to me why Cloud is such an emo fuck.

I'm playing through Dissidia right now; it's just one big goodie bag of nostalgia, and that's certainly my kind of thing. Besides, you get to kick ass as Kefka and the FFII Emperor, though I hope there's a sequel with a better selection of characters.

Example: why the fuck would they choose Tidus over Auron, Yuna, Wakka, Lulu...? Hell, everyone in X was awesome besides the annoying fuck they chose (Jecht's cool, though.)

I love Bartz and Zidane, but they're a bit too similiar - I'd replace either Bartz with Faris or Galuf, or Zidane with Vivi

Garland, Golbez and Exdeath are also too similiar - big, bad, armored villains, even though I like them all (except Exdeath) in their respective games

[ariich]

I don't understand why I wouldn't use the gambits. Pausing the game every second would have been a nightmare.

Wut?

I think you were doing it wrong Harry.

[AcidLameLTE]

Did the fight not pause every time you went to choose a command (manually)?

I honestly can't remember. It's been such a long time since I played it.