Author Topic: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation  (Read 6957 times)

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Offline Jaffa

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2013, 05:48:20 PM »
A few months ago some other members and I were talking about Awake and I said that I think almost nobody has any idea of the profound concepts that I believe are portrayed in this album. I think many DT fans think the lyrics are gibberish and think the music is technical, just has a few repeating themes, but isn't really portraying anything in particular. I'm making this thread to "lead you to the water" so to speak, and if your mind is open, you might drink, but I can't make you! Anyway, here is part 1-

-snip-

Your interpretation is interesting, but I have to say, I just don't quite see it.  I think you're finding profound meaning because you're looking for profound meaning, digging a little deeper than what's actually there, trying to connect puzzle pieces that don't actually go together.  Particularly with Caught in a Web.  Your interpretations of 6:00 and Innocence Faded are mostly coherent to me, but with CiaW, I really feel like you're stretching it.  Especially the bit where you start quoting As I Am, which really came from left field for me. 

Still, all very interesting, I'm just not sure I'm buying it.
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline bosk1

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2013, 06:02:36 PM »
To address you directly:

The original post was not written condescendingly, you are just taking it that way, and in some people's opinion (but not mine) rightfully so. Either way, now you know that is NOT how it was intended.

Perhaps not intentionally, but that's how it came across, especially after it felt like you were lashing out later in the thread.  But if, as you say, you did not intend it to be that way, I accept that and believe you.  All I ask is that you be mindful of how others see your posts as well.  Misunderstandings happen, and we all (myself included) sometimes post things in ways that may not be the most productive.  But I think we're all good here, so...on with the show.
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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2013, 06:06:26 PM »
To address you directly:

The original post was not written condescendingly, you are just taking it that way, and in some people's opinion (but not mine) rightfully so. Either way, now you know that is NOT how it was intended.

Perhaps not intentionally, but that's how it came across, especially after it felt like you were lashing out later in the thread.  But if, as you say, you did not intend it to be that way, I accept that and believe you.  All I ask is that you be mindful of how others see your posts as well.  Misunderstandings happen, and we all (myself included) sometimes post things in ways that may not be the most productive.  But I think we're all good here, so...on with the show.

good. great thanks

Offline bosk1

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2013, 06:13:48 PM »
Okay, not to further derail the topic at hand, but somebody else said this to me via PM, and it is relevant:

Quote
"NOW, as much as I love all your senses of humor, could we please get back to serious discussion about an album that changed my life?" he said.  Followed immediately by Jay posting Spider-Man emotes, hef posting a Spider-Man image, Zook typing Spider-Man in huge colored letters, Aythesryche declaring it a Spider-Man thread, and everybody else laughing about it. 

I mean, honestly, wouldn't YOU be a little annoyed in his position?

Yeah, I can see that, honestly.  I apologize for contributing to that.  But again, if someone has an issue that needs moderator attention, even if the situation involves a moderator or the admin, a lot of further problems can be avoided if you PM a mod (or me) and ask for help rather than lashing out.  Okay, NOW let's get back to the discusison, please.  Thanks.
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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2013, 06:49:57 PM »
Hey Jaffa, you pose a good point. Let me try to give you a specific example other than the employee at work. Here is the situation I was in when CAIW first became so meaningful to me (more than just awesome riffs and vocal lines). You'll notice it's the same concept applied to something possibly more relevant-


I was at a music and performance school in Hollywood, California, and well, it was pretty much exactly what you'd imagine a performance school in LA to be like. As great as some of its assets were, there were somewhat shady people around a lot, and quote on quote professional "producers" and "artists"... I really did genuinely like and become friends with a lot of the people there, and everyone was really cool and had great intentions, but the only thing was that you can tell just how fake some people act. It's not necessarily they enjoy acting that way, but they just think they have to in order to be a successful "artist."

Well, as you would imagine, some people started telling me that the only songs I should ever perform should be 2 and a half minutes or less, I need to dress in flashy clothes, I need to sing in a certain range, and talk a certain way. At first, I gave in a little and tried "selling out" to a certain extent... guess what? It didn't work for me. I bare all that I am made of now attractive- I dont care! But that's not all! I also noticed that these very things they were trying to tell me to do, they were doing and getting NOWHERE with. They had hurt haunting them, but didn't realize it was the web they were building themselves. Then they're gonna tell ME how to play and what to say???

I feel like screaming on a C# and then yelling at the top of my lungs to a couple of these people "Tried to live the life you live and saw etc.." and then the extra ironic "Does this voice the wounds of your soul?"

And one more quick thing- I also noticed socially some of these people would act friendly with me, but at a certain point, they would stop putting forth any effort to show they wanted to remain friends. So, like any young teenager would, I tried to change to fit their social standards. Didn't make the slightest difference. I tried it both ways, but "even when I danced with life, no one [at least none of them] was there to share." It just shows how the people who subscribe to the idea of selling out end up doing it in many aspects of their life.

*Disclaimer* In case anyone from that school finds this  :lol these things I'm talking about were only in a couple instances by over-all great teachers and some kids I really don't know very well. (I still think they won't reach their dreams if they believe in pleasing others before themselves though.) I did make many friends at this place and would return in a heartbeat.

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »
I get the part about feeling trapped.  I get the part about feeling pressured to behave a certain way.  I get the part about wanting to rebel against that pressure and scream in the world's face to get off your back and let you live your way.  What I don't see in the lyrics is the idea that if you follow your dreams, everything will be alright.  If anything, I think the song seems to imply that if you insist on doing things your own way, you end up 'refused by the world, hanging on by a thread, spinning a cage, denied and misread.'
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2013, 08:00:34 PM »
now that's interesting! So maybe this song is just describing being in a tough situation, and while I think the answer is following your selfish passion, they may not be providing an answer.. Maybe that's what he means by caught in a web- he doesn't know how to make the situation better. good point.

One thing I still do notice, though, is that he says "attractive I don't care" pretty sternly and proudly in context. Plus 6:00 is about the follow your dreams thing*. So I'm thinking maybe they aren't focusing on the solution to the problem in CIAW, but the album does provide one.

the follow your dreams thing- don't take this too lightly. When I say this, I don't mean "go with your gut," I mean more like work freaking hard for what you know is right and don't let anyone stop you. This actually becomes an issue very soon in the album.

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2013, 08:21:08 PM »
One thing I still do notice, though, is that he says "attractive I don't care" pretty sternly and proudly in context. Plus 6:00 is about the follow your dreams thing*. So I'm thinking maybe they aren't focusing on the solution to the problem in CIAW, but the album does provide one.

Well, it may be that I'll see what you mean more and more as you provide your thoughts on the rest of the album.  Personally, I think it's more likely that both 6:00 and CiaW are designed to be about general feelings of being stuck, frustrated, bitter, and powerless.  But we'll see what happens as you go along.  :)
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2013, 12:10:56 PM »
Part 2 (I'll also update the OP)-

Now, in the next few songs we start moving on to a new recurring symbolism of water which will be highlighted in green. Quotes are still in blue

honestly, Voices is probably the song I am still the most confused about on the album, but I think I get most of it and the main idea. Erotomania obviously also relies on an understanding of this song and the Silent Man. I am relatively confident in my understanding of The Silent Man, though. Anyway, check it out-


Erotomania is some of the musical depiction of the feelings and things going on in the mind of the man going through some of the changes/ decisions this album talks about. At this point, this man is beside himself on a decision. He is starting to believe that these concepts which the first three songs are explaining are contrary to what he has been taught growing up in regards to religion, and even possibly the belief in God, itself. Now he must decide which set of ideals to follow.

This song could also be seen as the musical depiction of very bad guilt and insecurity of sorts while doing a certain activity. This may make more sense after Voices.

Also just some cool things to notice that reflect the consistent and forward-moving tone of the album-

-the guitar during the very first main riff is kind of a variation on the fills at the very tail end of Innocence Faded, the song immediately before this one.
-the obvious one is that at 3:04 it's the melody to the chorus of Silent Man
-Then, notice the (much less obvious) recurring theme at 3:41 which appears again in Voices druing the fills at 2:55 (as with every other chorus) and at 5:45. Then once again at 1:52-2:14 of the Silent Man. Also this theme even nods at the chorus of Caught in a Web at 4:04 (of Erotomania)


At the beginning of Voices the “I” character is remembering some adult figures in his earlier life who seem to be very religious. One tells him “Love, just don’t stare” which is kind of confusing, but I think is saying that you can fall in love, but advising to never take it too far, trust too much, or get too caught up in it because it can never be perfect. Personally, I don’t like to settle for this, and I don’t think the “I” character wants to either. When the “Animation breathes a cloudless mind” approach is taken, one does not have to settle for less than perfect. However, this old man remained caught beneath the wheel for his whole life; he sipped the poison, eventually died because he didn’t really have any desire to go on, and now his widow is the one who is left.

Now the widow is introduced saying "So speak, I'm right here," but as indicated by "not a word not a word" the "I" character does not want to talk. He is feeling (as described later) "withdrawn and introverted", and we are about to find out why. First, though, let's notice the way the "I" character sees his two paths in life. He can either take the "Spider in the window" approach, or the "Angel in the pool" approach. The first way, a person will spin a web of lies his entire life, and with the other he will FACE HIS PROBLEMS WHEN THEY ARISE AND MAKE HIS LIFE GLORIOUS!

So now why is he so introverted? It's because he is starting to disagree fundamentally with the philosophy behind these religious people, but he's either too weak or too young to rebel. It's his own life that is being halted by their selfless and conformist ways, but he is in the incredibly frustrating and depressing state of being unable to fight for his own happiness. So he starts hearing voices in his head begging him to PLEASE take hold of your life!!- "feeling threatened we reflect your hopes and fears" he is subconsciously being moved by desire and fear (which of course will later be addressed in LSOAD), and his happiness is at stake (threatened). The "Others steal your thoughts" part is saying that if the "I" character doesn't take hold of his life, someone else will eventually think of and capitalize on the ideas he has; that he will begin to see new inventions/products (which could be of any industry or type) become successful in the world that he thought of first, but never acted on. The second verse says "Now they read my mind on the radio".

He is also dealing with the same concept when it comes to love. He starts to see that the philosophy of the people he is surrounded by is based on selflessness and the idea that people can NOT be perfect because they are fundamentally flawed (something I completely reject. Humans have the power to be the most perfect thing in the universe). He then sees that these people think the only way around this eternal misery is through God. We will see in The Silent Man that this is thankfully NOT the true purpose of God in the "I" character's and my own view. But we aren't there quite yet- while being surrounded by these people, one could even go as far as to say "Sex is death, death is sex" because of it's extreme amount of selfish pleasure, and creation of humanity. Now maybe the title and emotion of Erotomania has some new meaning?

The voices continue to tell him to rebel "Good behavior brings a savior to his knees." And you'll never guess where we end up in the next scene...

"Kneeling on the floor... like the spider in the window, I wish that I could speak." Yes, that's right, he still hasn't acted on what he knows is right, and thus he is still caught in the web these people spin their whole lives, remaining misled. And he is still withdrawn and introverted, and now seeing his "diary on the newsstand", proving the voices' point.

I think by the end of the song, the character might finally follow through (*cough* giving up on misery and leaving their distrust behind *cough*) and risk quote on quote "salvation" in order to escape from isolation, but it's very hard to tell.


In The Silent Man, we see that our main character has indeed found God, and not through a self-hating philosophy. (I'd like to point out that the religion in Voices was clearly Christianity, but of course you can still be Christian and not have the same beliefs as the antagonists in that song. You may be Christian and actually believe more like the protagonist in The Silent Man is going to describe, and think that the antagonists were not true Christians. This is not meant to offend or label all Christians as thinking a certain way)

The Silent Man is God. You can tell because, first of all the name is capitalized every time, and is even capitalized when referred to as "He." Second, because of the lyrics.

So what do you think about this question that is served about "Is silence like a fever, a voice never heard, or a message with no receiver?" I think that this first stanza regarding silence isn't even referring to the Silent Man, God quite yet. I think we are actually talking about the silence that the "I" character had when he was so withdrawn and introverted. And if you ask yourself why he was so silent, it's actually because he didn't think he could trust those who were talking to him. It's possible that Dream Theater is making a connection that similarly, God is entirely silent, but only when you are a good person and make the effort to search for the truth, he will be there for you. The "I" character does not want to be asked this question in church, though, because he does not want to let everyone know his answer. Again, he does not trust them with this.

The next question is whether man is just a victim of woman and his father. I think we have covered that this does not need to be the case; man has the power to be heroic! Also, what are the consequences of not bothering to even think about this "If he elects not to bother..."? Well, I think that would mean a shallow life because one will be very easily sucked right into the web and then never do any good for himself nor the rest of the world.

The chorus then clearly describes what the "I" character has found. It is basically that God is there to help you through rough times and guide you when you don't know where to go. We will then begin to see most importantly, that a person must work for themselves. God does NOT ask you to sit back so he can do the work for you. "When there is reason, Tonight I'm Awake, When there's no answer, Arrive the Silent Man."

The bridge is the most interesting and powerful part to me. "I could sail by on the Winds of Silence, and maybe they won't notice, But this time I think It'd be better if I swim" He is saying that he could just flow through life and let God push him around where he wants, and then the other people who surround him won't mind, but he would rather TAKE HOLD OF HIS LIFE and STEER IT WHERE HE, HIMSELF WANTS IT TO GO!! (Now we see why the angel in Voices was in the pool, yes?) He is inspired by the things that make him happy, including LOVE and whatever other passions he has, and with this at stake, he is prepared to TAKE ON THE OCEAN! To hell with what the self-haters want him to be! Rather than flowing with the stream, he has animation and fascination and he wants to swim through life with his own to arms!

hell yes.

Offline nicbor87

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2013, 07:14:52 AM »
But where do the Illuminati fit in?

Offline lateralus88

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2013, 09:20:30 AM »
Through Her Eyes is about skull-fucking.


/thread
I felt its length in quite a few places.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2013, 09:28:19 AM »
Through Her Eyes is about skull-fucking.


/thread
Wrong album, but thanks for playing.
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Offline lateralus88

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2013, 09:56:43 AM »
Did I at least get a consolation prize, Regis?
I felt its length in quite a few places.

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Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2013, 12:44:12 PM »
 :lol ok so you think it's far stretched? then tell me what YOU think it's about.

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2013, 12:49:47 PM »
Personally, I don't think the album as a whole is about anything.  Some of the songs have specific meanings, but I don't think there's any lyrical theme or concept tying the whole album together.  Some of the lyrics are designed to evoke certain feelings and ideas, others are designed to just sound nice. 

Just my opinion. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline TheAtliator

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2013, 01:01:22 PM »
Personally, I don't think the album as a whole is about anything.  Some of the songs have specific meanings, but I don't think there's any lyrical theme or concept tying the whole album together.  Some of the lyrics are designed to evoke certain feelings and ideas, others are designed to just sound nice. 

Just my opinion.

Interesting. I think some songs are very very loosely connected, at least rely on information in another song, some a little more strongly, but some aren't at all. Silent Man has nothing to do with 6:00, but it does have to do a little with Voices, and Voices has one little connection to all the first three songs. LSOAD actually makes perfect sense as a stand alone song, but is actually about the same thing, pretty much, as 6:00 in a way, with an entirely different emotional approach. That's why I would call it a concept album, not really like a story album, but they all follow a theme. Actually, would the convention be to call it a theme album? Anyway, that's one thing I'm trying to show with this interpretation.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Sixdgmaticor's Awake interperataion/explanation
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2013, 02:34:39 PM »
I don't think anyone would claim the album isn't thematic up to a certain point, dear, but that's because they were all in a more or less similar mindset when they approached writing the lyrics (you could argue Kevin wasn't, though). Here's what JLB had to say on the matter after the release of Awake:

Quote from: James LaBrie
According to their record company's press release 'Awake' finds Dream Theater "...dealing with new awareness..." This belief is also shared by the vocalist, who explains that whn the album was written they had strong feelings about "hope", and "survival" and "perseverance". That with 'Awake' ("The title itself is self-explanatory"), what they are basically talking about is becoming more aware of one's existence. "And through finding out what your existence is - through a personal relationship foremost - that it will affect in a positive sense the surrounding relationships with others." With something of the fervour of a religious devotee addressing a non-believer (except preferring not to maintain the steely eye contact that, say, a Jehovah's Witness will nail you with), LaBrie explains - at length, elaborating on key points - how in the last four years, since the writing and recording of 'Images And Words' and the touring that followed, Dream Theater have travelled thw world and been exposed to many different peoples and different cultures, and how "you're going to learn from it and expand".

He describes in eloquent semi-philosophical terms how 'Awake' is a reflection of all that they've experienced in the last three or four years, and also as almost therapeutic album to write by being able to "get all this wonder out of us, and put it down on paper to better understand it, and to explain to people what we've learned from it".
[...]
"Lyrically, I think what is always a general vibe with Dream Theater is that we're always writing in, I suppose you could say, a philosophical sense. But it's more or less what everyone else is experiencing and going through at the time."

Hence the importance placed on tackling 'real' subjects when it comes to lyrics?

"I think so, but I'm not going to put down any other genre of music. I think it is cool to have the fantasy-type stories; and there's such a surplus of love lyrics out there, and a lot of them - and I am not trying to sound pompous or anything - are so poorly written y'know? If you want to write about the subject of love, at least write about it in more poetic sense, with that is worder realy beatifully. And you do have artist out there that do that, which is really cool. "But when people read or hear lyrics within a song that are touching more on everyday life or something that we all go through, then people can realise that we're all going through the same things; the same trials and tribulations.

"You can't be out there saying stupid things, because bands can be so influential to sao many people, it's scary. And they might read into the wrong way, so.... Do you know who I think is a guy who is misquoted a lot? Henry Rollins. And I really respect that guy. Very intelligent. I think he is very brilliant. I hear people saying:'Oh, very angry, very posessed person.' And I'm like, 'Have you ever sat down and really read -meataphorically - into what this guy is saying?' It's more like, if people start respecting each other and stoppede stepping on each other and back-stabbing people, then it's gonna be for the better. and basically that's what he's saying: Don't take shit, but don't dish it out as well. I think Henry Rollins is a really cool guy."
source: https://web.archive.org/web/19990417161546/https://www.dreamtheater.net/artjames.htm#metal1

Quote
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