Does anybody else...

[Nekov]

And JLB singing better has nothing to do with MP not being on stage unless he has Jedi powers and was force choking him during live shows....

Um...you do realize that that is exactly what happened, right?  Why do you think Mike wanted a hiatus?  He planned to use that time to further hone his powers on Dagoba. 

I should have seen that... then again, I'm not the expert in force chocking people on this forum

[ariich]

That said...

I loved ADTOE when it came out, and I'm sure I'll love the new album and new DVD. However, I'm less interested in the band overall than I was before now. I'm not sure why, but I'm positive it has to do with Mike leaving. For all his flaws, MP was great when it came to connecting with fans, and making fans feel like they were part of something special for being a DT fan, kinda like how Bruce makes being an Iron Maiden fan special.

With the latest DT lineup, I don't get that. I feel more like I'm part of a buyer/seller customer relationship than ever before, right down to the corporate answers we get about the DVD from JR and JP. Maybe I'm being nostalgic, but I have a feeling that, for better or worse, Mike  would have let us know what's really going on.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I just don't feel anything special about being a DT fan anymore. I'm still a DT fan, but being a DT fan is different now, more like being a fan of any other band. DT are still putting out quality music, which is all that really counts, but I haven't really felt passionate about them since Mike left. Maybe I'm just moving on in general, but that's how it is.

Does this post make any sense?

Makes a lot of sense, as I'm the same, and I said something similar in an earlier post in this thread. But I think the way you put it is very insightful - I'm still a big fan, but in the same way that I am with loads of other bands. Part of that intimacy that Mike brought meant that, although there were other bands I liked more, my interest and engagement with DT was higher and broader. ADTOE is probably my second favourite DT album, so I'm just as big a fan of the music as ever, but I don't feel as attached to them - they're just one band among my big list of favourite bands.

[TAC]

Perp, as usual, you make perfect sense.

[Kotowboy]

So it's just a huge coincidence that the vocals on ADToE are the best he's sounded in years after MP left ?

[Labrie1984]

I strongly feel it's not a coincidence. James sounded awesome in ADTOE (alive and warm vocals). He also sounds better live nowadays. Portnoy's drums tracks were too loud and that didn't help the overall sound at all (bass, vocals...).

[Grizz]

I'm going to start this post with saying that I'm somewhat of an MP fanboy and there's nothing I can do about it.
Maybe it's my age. I'm 15. The first DT album that I heard the living hell played out of it was Octavarium.
Then I started to get into them around the time BC&SL came out. Being that this was the first album I had listened to from the release, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Now, don't assume that I'm one of those teenagers that found out about DT from Guitar Hero and am all about DT becoming thrash metal. I think that the earlier Proggier albums (I&W, SFAM, ACoS) are way better than BC&SL.
This was also around the time that I started drumming, so I became VERY accustomed to MP's style.
I watched Portnoy on two VERY good BC&SL shows: Oakdale in CT and Palladium in MA. He really brought the energy to the band and made me excited to be there.
On the other hand, I was not satisfied with ADTOE. The show (second Huntington) I was at didn't have great vocals (Granted, it was the second American leg, fatigue, perhaps?) and it was overall boring despite Paradigm shift. Perhaps it would have helped if the mixer could do anything right though. I want to love Mangini and I accept his technical superiority, but I can't say I don't have a strong bias toward Portnoy.

[BlobVanDam]

So it's just a huge coincidence that the vocals on ADToE are the best he's sounded in years after MP left ?

That statement assumes the vocals on ADTOE are better, which I strongly disagree with. I find them to be pretty rough in places compared to previous albums. Recording his vocals with DT producing seems to make all the difference, which is why he never sounds as polished on side projects to me.

[philmcson]

Yes, I really miss MP in DT. When I compare MP- and post-MP-DT, it seems to me that the band has lost its heavy counterpart. Right now (although ADTOE is a great album) they seem to me like a bunch of musical nerds (with JP and MM giving some heavy parts but not enough IMO) and as many of you have mentioned, even a bit autistic regarding updates about releases, concerts etc.

Sorry but... How are BMUBMD, LNF, BITS and Outcry not heavy enough? Those songs are heavier or on part with the heaviest songs on pretty much all of DT's albums before ToT.
I mean, yes, MP was 'the metal guy' in the band, but musically, I don't feel like they lost their metal edge, they just eased off it a bit, compared to the previous couple of albums.

Yes, I know that named songs from ADTOE are also pretty heavy, but maybe only in my perceptions the DT records from 2003 to 2009 were all "heavier on average" than ADTOE. I hope the guys just wanted to ejaculate the softer, symphonic part of their musicality onto a record (BAI, TITL, FFH.....) and that the new album will be something between BC&SL and ADTOE with genuine MM drumming. Then I'll be perfectly happy with the direction the band is taking.....

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Yeah, there are a lot of heavy riffs on ADTOE, but the production just doesn't do them justice, and as a result the record feels much less heavy than the previous albums even in the "metal" moments.

[Polis]

I think DT was more cohesive and familiar on earlier albums. ADTOE was just bland, obligated-to-be-heavy with weak drum sound. SC and BCASL, while everyone hates for one reason or another, included absolutely terrific moments, like ITPOE and all of BCASL except for parts of ANTR and A Rite of Passage. Octavarium and before of course are close to perfection.

MP ftw. I don't like Mangini's drum sound, and I hate his stuff with Annihilator, Extreme, etc.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't know how you could be talking about SC, BCSL, and ADTOE and using "obligated to be heavy" as anything but describing the former two, but there you are, doing just that

[Polis]

I don't know how you could be talking about SC, BCSL, and ADTOE and using "obligated to be heavy" as anything but describing the former two, but there you are, doing just that

Well, for starters MP was still in the band, and he was kind of the "metal guy" as some of you previously mentioned. After MP left, to me JP felt like he had to keep the tradition going. He said once that he knew a lot of bands who strayed from their original sound which had made them famous and lost support, so he had to establish ADTOE as formulaic and frankly uninspiring.

Except for Breaking All Illusions. And the ballads. In short, I'm the kind of guy who likes melody a lot more than heaviness, though I also love the dark, epic metal like 12 steps, Train of Thought, Awake.

[Perpetual Change]

John is just as much a metal guy as anyone.

[Polis]

Much less so than Mike. By himself, he doesn't really know what to do with metal besides the heavy riffage, and let's face it, plain metal is often really one dimensional.

On the score anniversary video he also said that Mike turned him on to heavier stuff like metallica while he was a rush fan. Much like some people said previously in the thread, JP and JR are "musical nerds" who like to play intricate, symphonic extended instrumentals much more than MP.

Portnoy is a guy with many tastes too, but he was basically fanatical about his drive toward harsher, more intense metal. Even his appearance changed from '08 slowly onwards- entirely tattoo'd arms, nose ring, etc.

[Perpetual Change]

That's just false. JP loves classic metal.

Plus, harsh metal never worked well in DT. The few examples of it on SC and BCSL were pretty widely criticized and even made the brunt of countless jokes among fans. Pretty sure that's why they stopped trying it with ADTOE.

[Polis]

  wasn't that what I just said about mike being heavier when he was in the band. OH well, I'll pretend that you're right in some way so that I can put a halt to this annoyingly passive aggressive alienation.

[TheSilentHam]

https://guitarinternational.com/2010/10/26/john-petrucci-the-dream-theater-interview/

Brian: Yes, they do. Talk a bit more about your influences. Supposedly you’re highly influenced by Rush and Metallica.

John Petrucci: Yeah, definitely. When we were younger, those bands were mutual. We were all fans of those bands. John, I, and Kevin Moore, our original keyboard player, brought it together. We didn’t know Mike until we went to Berklee in Boston.  It just so happened that we liked all those bands. A Lot of the same bands kind of brought us together. Yes was a big one, and Iron Maiden. So, we found this common connection. But the biggest was probably Rush.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I will admit that I'm a bit upset that I never actually got to see DT live with MP, but MM is soooooo fuckin good, sooooo fuckin happy, and he obviously appreciates being in DT more than MP did, so I wouldn't say I miss MP. And plus it's nice to see some promo shots of the band where JLB is in the center where he belongs, unlike some of the SC and BC&SL ones where MP is in the middle like he's the frontman or something.

[kirksnosehair]

I've seen them both ways now, with MP and with MM.  The best show was "An Evening With" around the release of 6DOIT.  That show was amazing.  Worst show was the most recent tour.  That's got nothing to do with Mangini, though.  They were just way too fucking loud for the venue.  I came very close to walking out because of the overly loud volume.

[Dreamer81]

 

[wasteland]

I've seen them both ways now, with MP and with MM.  The best show was "An Evening With" around the release of 6DOIT.  That show was amazing.  Worst show was the most recent tour.  That's got nothing to do with Mangini, though.  They were just way too fucking loud for the venue.  I came very close to walking out because of the overly loud volume.

IIRC you live in Boston or surroundings. Did you see the show when MP and MM played together in 2002?

[Madman Shepherd]

I've seen them both ways now, with MP and with MM.  The best show was "An Evening With" around the release of 6DOIT.  That show was amazing.  Worst show was the most recent tour.  That's got nothing to do with Mangini, though.  They were just way too fucking loud for the venue.  I came very close to walking out because of the overly loud volume.

I don't think that has anything to do with the band in general. 

[wolven74]

No more than I miss David Tennant in Doctor Who.

He had his time, he was brilliant - one of my favourite things about one of my favourite things - but we've moved on. The new guy's bringing variety, and his own take on the role, and the entire shebang's been mixed up. Cool man, but the new guy's doing great things, the old guy's doing new things, and I've got however many hours of the old setup still kicking about on umpteen discs I can play whenever I want. The past was great, the present's the best of both worlds as we can pick and choose, and the future's exciting.

This. Except: the old guy's doing new things This I disagree with. I'm glad that MP is happy doing the music he's doing now, but I wouldn't call what he's doing new. He still has his stock bag of tricks. His music is good, in a generic heavy metal type way, but it's all the same. He used to be an innovator, coming up with new and interesting parts that fit in well and enhanced DT's music, but as of Systematic Chaos all of his parts started to blend together. He's still an amazing drummer, but he doesn't fit what DT are doing now.

I really like Flying Colors. Really like it - the difference between it and ADToE, quality-wise, is... it exists, there is a gap, but it's basically negligible. And I don't think it's quite like anything he's done before. So, from where I'm stood, he's made exactly as many really great albums as DT since they split. I think he's doing his stuff in genres that better suit him, nowadays. As you say, he's said he's moved away from Dream Theater music, and I think that's absolutely right. Generally, he plays in much better-fitting bands now, and he plays to complement the genres, rather than to reinvent them.

I don't think he's going to have any of the same runaway success that he's had with Dream Theater, and he's not going to be a brand new Portnoy, but I think he's going to put his name to some pretty darned cool music over the years, and more to the point, I think he's already started.

I guess the disappointment I feel in MP isn't that his style or his playing has gotten stale, though he does have some very distinctive and sometimes overused chops. My disappointment stems from the fact that he's sort of a drifter. He keeps forming bands with other well known, established artists, who have their own "home" bands. I'd love to see Mike form another band and have it be his new baby. All the work he's done since DT has seemed more like projects, nothing permanent.

[KevShmev]

My disappointment stems from the fact that he's sort of a drifter. He keeps forming bands with other well known, established artists, who have their own "home" bands. I'd love to see Mike form another band and have it be his new baby. All the work he's done since DT has seemed more like projects, nothing permanent.

The problem there is, since Portnoy really isn't a songwriter (he is more of an arranger/producer, who can piece songs together once the songwriter has written the melodies and whatnot), he'd basically have to find a songwriter who is around his age who is looking to form a new band and needs a drummer.  That ain't so easy once you hit 40+.

[IdoSC]

I absolutely miss him in backstage footage, like the videos Jordan uploads and such. It's really depressing to think that there would be no more commentaries on DVDs and so on, every time we see footage of the band walking around there won't be anyone who mentions all the times the band has been where they are right now like our old OCD pal used to do.

I mean, it does seem like his midlife crisis (I guess?) got the best of him anyways, but DT seems to anemic to me right now. I mean, not on-stage, don't get me wrong they're kicking ass and taking names on stage, but the current footage of them hanging out together seems so...polite and boring. The tweeter Q&A, the TSCO series, Jordan's videos all seem so dull. Maybe except for Jordan but that's because he's always enthusiastic talking to the camera (aka to the fans) rather than to the other bandmates he's filming.

I could be wrong, maybe it's temporary. But anyways, while I'm absolutely happy with MM (both in his personality and in his drumming); I really miss MP's personality and the "spice" he added to the band (well, before 2007 or so).

[Kotowboy]

 

Or i've already got tinnitus and I don;t want it to get any worse.

[Perpetual Change]

The problem there is, since Portnoy really isn't a songwriter (he is more of an arranger/producer, who can piece songs together once the songwriter has written the melodies and whatnot), he'd basically have to find a songwriter who is around his age who is looking to form a new band gain some new momentum and needs a drummer.  And that man is Neal Morse.

There ya go!

[JPX]

No more than I miss David Tennant in Doctor Who.

He had his time, he was brilliant - one of my favourite things about one of my favourite things - but we've moved on. The new guy's bringing variety, and his own take on the role, and the entire shebang's been mixed up. Cool man, but the new guy's doing great things, the old guy's doing new things, and I've got however many hours of the old setup still kicking about on umpteen discs I can play whenever I want. The past was great, the present's the best of both worlds as we can pick and choose, and the future's exciting.

This. Except: the old guy's doing new things This I disagree with. I'm glad that MP is happy doing the music he's doing now, but I wouldn't call what he's doing new. He still has his stock bag of tricks. His music is good, in a generic heavy metal type way, but it's all the same. He used to be an innovator, coming up with new and interesting parts that fit in well and enhanced DT's music, but as of Systematic Chaos all of his parts started to blend together. He's still an amazing drummer, but he doesn't fit what DT are doing now.

I really like Flying Colors. Really like it - the difference between it and ADToE, quality-wise, is... it exists, there is a gap, but it's basically negligible. And I don't think it's quite like anything he's done before. So, from where I'm stood, he's made exactly as many really great albums as DT since they split. I think he's doing his stuff in genres that better suit him, nowadays. As you say, he's said he's moved away from Dream Theater music, and I think that's absolutely right. Generally, he plays in much better-fitting bands now, and he plays to complement the genres, rather than to reinvent them.

I don't think he's going to have any of the same runaway success that he's had with Dream Theater, and he's not going to be a brand new Portnoy, but I think he's going to put his name to some pretty darned cool music over the years, and more to the point, I think he's already started.

I guess the disappointment I feel in MP isn't that his style or his playing has gotten stale, though he does have some very distinctive and sometimes overused chops. My disappointment stems from the fact that he's sort of a drifter. He keeps forming bands with other well known, established artists, who have their own "home" bands. I'd love to see Mike form another band and have it be his new baby. All the work he's done since DT has seemed more like projects, nothing permanent.

Apparently I can't have an opinion on this because it's negative, but here goes anyway.

I absolutely HATE all the side projects that Mike has done. Each one is worse than the next to me.

I think there a few reasons as to why - but the above highlights one main one. First and foremost before all the other stuff he does, Mike Portnoy is a drummer, and he hasn't contributed ANYTHING to the drumming world in quite some time. All of these projects are complete indulgence on his part and the drumming is completely secondary.
Then indulgence is really the segue into the other main reason - I think he likes the IDEA of these project waymore than the music they turn out. He likes the people he is working with and tries to build something around them. I guess he just figures the music will work itself out.

[Nekov]

Well, he's probably just trying to have as much fun as he can and as you say he's probably not thinking so much about the final result as he should be but concentrating in having a good time with what he's doing which is fine. I'll make an exception with Flying Colors cause that record was great but then again, it's hard having that lineup and going wrong.

[JPX]

Well, he's probably just trying to have as much fun as he can and as you say he's probably not thinking so much about the final result as he should be but concentrating in having a good time with what he's doing which is fine. I'll make an exception with Flying Colors cause that record was great but then again, it's hard having that lineup and going wrong.

Yeah, and it's cool. If he just wants to have fun that's his choice - just don't expect too sell many records.

And FC was the most dynamic lineup. I wish he hadn't gone with the safe choice of Neal but whatever. And I don't like Casey as a vocalist but I respected the selection.

[Dream Team]

I absolutely miss him in backstage footage, like the videos Jordan uploads and such. It's really depressing to think that there would be no more commentaries on DVDs and so on, every time we see footage of the band walking around there won't be anyone who mentions all the times the band has been where they are right now like our old OCD pal used to do.

I mean, it does seem like his midlife crisis (I guess?) got the best of him anyways, but DT seems to anemic to me right now. I mean, not on-stage, don't get me wrong they're kicking ass and taking names on stage, but the current footage of them hanging out together seems so...polite and boring. The tweeter Q&A, the TSCO series, Jordan's videos all seem so dull. Maybe except for Jordan but that's because he's always enthusiastic talking to the camera (aka to the fans) rather than to the other bandmates he's filming.

I could be wrong, maybe it's temporary. But anyways, while I'm absolutely happy with MM (both in his personality and in his drumming); I really miss MP's personality and the "spice" he added to the band (well, before 2007 or so).

Works fine for me. I don't need to hear a 45yr old man cursing like a 12yr old every 10 seconds to enjoy behind-the-scenes stuff.

[Kotowboy]

I absolutely miss him in backstage footage, like the videos Jordan uploads and such. It's really depressing to think that there would be no more commentaries on DVDs and so on, every time we see footage of the band walking around there won't be anyone who mentions all the times the band has been where they are right now like our old OCD pal used to do.

I mean, it does seem like his midlife crisis (I guess?) got the best of him anyways, but DT seems to anemic to me right now. I mean, not on-stage, don't get me wrong they're kicking ass and taking names on stage, but the current footage of them hanging out together seems so...polite and boring. The tweeter Q&A, the TSCO series, Jordan's videos all seem so dull. Maybe except for Jordan but that's because he's always enthusiastic talking to the camera (aka to the fans) rather than to the other bandmates he's filming.

I could be wrong, maybe it's temporary. But anyways, while I'm absolutely happy with MM (both in his personality and in his drumming); I really miss MP's personality and the "spice" he added to the band (well, before 2007 or so).

Works fine for me. I don't need to hear a 45yr old man cursing like a 12yr old every 10 seconds to enjoy behind-the-scenes stuff.

[TheGreatPretender]

You think that stuff is dull? One word: Forklift.

[Grizz]

I'm 15, and the DT shows I've been too have been too loud.
None of them compare to the Oakdale DT/QR show according to my dad, though.

[SystematicThought]

The last one I went to wasn't loud enough