Does anybody else...

[Mebert78]

I don't miss him, personally.  I actually felt myself become a bigger fan after he left.  I was not a fan of his lyric writing.  And when he needlessly publicly ripped Kevin Moore in the Lifting Shadows book, that turned me off a great deal.  I wish him the best of luck and I'll always keep an eye on what he's doing musically.  But I'm happy Mangini is here.

[j]

The fact that he played with and was friends with those guys for SO long, and for it all to have ended contentiously is really sad.

But frankly, I always thought Portnoy's personality was off-putting and I perceived some of his musical tastes (which I didn't share) as being responsible for driving the band's direction of late.  I'm not knowledgeable enough about drumming to appreciate all of the probable differences between he and Mangini, positive or negative, but I can't recall ever having had any complaints about Portnoy's drumming.

But it's too bad for Portnoy everything went down the way it did (even though it was largely his fault), because with a new drummer in place who seems to be such a good fit, there's pretty much zero chance of a reconciliation that involves his returning to DT.

-J

[Ytsejammin]

  And when he needlessly publicly ripped Kevin Moore in the Lifting Shadows book, that turned me off a great deal.

I agree that there may have been some passive aggressive comments from MP about KM. Who knows what they're relationship entailed in the '80s. KM sure has been quiet about this tenure with the band he helped get going. Tension between those two may be a factor. Dead Air and You Go Now speak for themselves and happen to be 2 of my most fave albums.

There's been alot of cool and insightful responses to this thread. Thanks everybody!

[MoraWintersoul]

  And when he needlessly publicly ripped Kevin Moore in the Lifting Shadows book, that turned me off a great deal.

I agree that there may have been some passive aggressive comments from MP about KM. Who knows what they're relationship entailed in the '80s. KM sure has been quiet about this tenure with the band he helped get going. Tension between those two may be a factor. Dead Air and You Go Now speak for themselves and happen to be 2 of my most fave albums.

There's been alot of cool and insightful responses to this thread. Thanks everybody!

Oh whee, more Chroma Key fans

Not to bring this further off topic, but I think it's not a big stretch/guess to say that one of the (several) reasons why Kevin left the band is because the grounds for the studio dynamic present in later DT were laid even back when he thought of leaving. Preferring to work alone was certainly the main reason of his departure from the band, but it is noted that there was endless bickering in the studio for Awake (I think it's in Awake's wiki entry, cited from Lifting Shadows) and there's no way to be any more opposite in personality and approach than KM and MP, so it probably made the decision to leave easier.

Later on we had MP threatening to leave himself on FII, and I think, if MP's tenure in the band continued, that either JLB or JMX would have left. The varying musical tension between all of them, changing members and all, and varying levels of frustration to satisfaction with their place on their labels and in the industry made for some very interesting music, but as soon as DT was finally "safe" and established (somewhere 'round Octavarium, but maybe later), it happened that MP slowly started growing apathetic and JLB and JMX were increasingly left out. They needed a shakeup, regardless of whether or not you like SC and BCSL, and that shakeup involved the departure of the person who used to incite most of the movement (outside of actual songwriting, which was pretty equal duty between the three/four key players), leaving the remaining members to try and do all that themselves, for the rest of their career. And hey, I don't like ADTOE but I think they're doing okay. I think they've only just begun now and that they'll surprise us yet in the future.

And when you see MP with any of his current projects, he fits there. When you see MM with DT, it's like he's always been there.

Well all of this is my headcanon and I am sticking to it

[ytserush]

To the extent of being a steward of the band's history I'd say yes. For most other things, probably not.

Although I really don't give this much thought.

[gmillerdrake]

No.  If this had happened 11 years ago, when the band was still at their peak (albeit nearing the end of it), I'd probably say yes, but considering the direction the band went in (certain types of metal that encouraged him to sing more and made JLB sing in ways that didn't make him sound his best) combined with the crazy control he had over the band, it made being a fan of the band a lot less fun.  In every interview or documentary, you could count on him hogging the time to talk.  In every live DVD or video, you could count on him getting more shots than anyone else.  It got to be too much.  Factor in the fact that the band's music in his later years in the band, while still mostly very good, wasn't as awesome as it was before, it was obvious the band needed a shake-up, and him leaving was the shake-up that best benefited the band.  I doubt the band will ever reach the musically awesome heights of 1992-2002 (from a consistency standpoint; they will still write plenty of great individual songs, as shown on ADTOE), but for here and now, the band is better off with Mike Mangini than with Mike Portnoy, IMO.  Basically, Dream Theater looks and feels like a real cohesive band again.

This!

That.

[KevShmev]

Regarding the Kevin Moore angle, his legacy with the band almost has that Syd Barrett/Pink Floyd feel to it, even if the situations were completely different.  Just like there are Floyd fans who always had an incredible fondness for Barrett and the era where he was THE dominant songwriter in Floyd, there are DT fans who have an incredible fondness for Moore and the things he brought to the DT table, and that obviously aggravated Portnoy, that some fans held Moore in such high regard, but trashing him and going out of his way to demean his contributions to the band came off as spiteful and immature.  Just like that cheap shot at him in the foreword of the Lifting Shadows book, which sounded like a jilted lover who was still pissed at an ex a decade later.  The irony is that Kevin Moore's continued silence about everything over the years, refusing to take Portnoy's bait, spoke volumes, while Portnoy continued to piss and moan, obviously even more aggravated that he couldn't get the desired reaction out of Moore or turn fans against him.

[ariich]

On the point about how fun it is to be a fan, I'd say that actually it was more fun being a fan when MP was in the band. Aside from the occasional bit of pointless drama, we were kept very up to date with what was going on and there was loads to read about, etc.

I wouldn't say I miss MP, as I think MM is perfect for the band, I loved ADTOE, and I really like the fact that everyone in the band seems a bit more relaxed at the moment. But we get much less in the way of updates now, and I'd say the band have become less personal with fans - everything seems very management-led (like the Twitter Q&A responses, a couple of which have been interesting but most of which have been very bland).

So no I don't miss MP, but I do miss some of the positive things he brought to being a fan of the band.

[TheGreatPretender]

But we get much less in the way of updates now, and I'd say the band have become less personal with fans - everything seems very management-led

Maybe it'll pick up. I mean, I agree a little bit, regarding this year, but remember in 2011, we were getting tons of updates on Facebook and everywhere, from JLB, JR, JP, and Rudess was constantly uploading little videos of the band throughout their touring.

[Grinch]

The thing I miss the most about MP is his drum kit, I can't stand MM's kit.

[utopiarun]

Things I miss:
The constant updates that Mike used to give us.
The bootleg series CDs
The drums being up front, hate the drum sound on ADTOE

Things I don't miss:
Mike's ego that was getting larger album by album. It was becoming "Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater", at least in his mind.
Progressive Nation tours- Sitting through 3-4 bands I didn't want to see for a 90 minute DT show wasn't great.
Opening for Iron Maiden (was that his idea?)
Cookie monster vocals and the overly metal and extended songs.

DT seems like a cohesive UNIT now, more so than they were on the last few albums.

[Kotowboy]

The thing I miss the most about MP is his drum kit, I can't stand MM's kit.

Opposite for me. MM's kit seemed designed better to play DT's catalogue whilst MP's kit seemed to be 2 kits in one for no reason.

[RoeDent]

Nope. Not one bit. Ironically (considering why MP left) it's given them a new lease of life. ADTOE still sounds as fresh today as when I first heard it. It's the sound of a band with a revived spirit. Not as much "darkness" as SC and BC&SL, and the metal/prog balance is restored, having shifted too far towards the metal side in the previous 2 albums.

Maybe it's different with people who see DT live, but as a non-concert-goer, I've hardly noticed any change at all. It's FULL STEAM AHEAD for the good ship DT! (As the Pirate would no doubt say!  )

(All my opinion, of course. But you knew that already.)

[Sycsa]

The two guys above me know what they're talking about.

[Hayden]

Yes, I actually kinda do miss Portnoy. I didn't want to miss him; I didn't wanna be one of those people who whines about lineup changes and clings to past eras, so I tried my best to not care. I even tried to say that it was a positive thing; that it was the change that the band needed, and that the sheer quality of 'ADToE' verified that belief. But, as my initial excitement for that record started to die down, I really began to notice that the sound of it wasn't the same as the rest of DT's album; the dynamics were somehow different. And it wasn't just the sound of a different drummer; the songwriting was different, the tone was different, the overall theme was different. The personality of the music was different. Dream Theater had changed. I was in denial about it for quite some time, but this wasn't the same Dream Theater. That's not to say that this Dream Theater is worse - it's certainly not; they've compensated for their losses by gaining some great new strengths. It's just that I definitely feel Portnoy's absence; it shows, it really does. And this isn't just the case with the music; the way I view the band has changed too; their overall image has changed, and the character of Dream Theater has changed.

Portnoy has the sort of personality that can influence every aspect of the institution with which he's involved (in this case, that institution was a band); it's a by-product of being an outspoken, extroverted and interesting person. The guy was (and is) a leader, and as a result, his personality permeated DT completely. So, when someone like that is removed from the picture, they take a lot with them, and the things that they brought to the band can't be replicated without them. And, if you like what that person brought to the band, you can't not miss them, even if you like the new product just as much.

[KevShmev]

Things I miss:
The constant updates that Mike used to give us.
The bootleg series CDs
The drums being up front, hate the drum sound on ADTOE

Things I don't miss:
Mike's ego that was getting larger album by album. It was becoming "Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater", at least in his mind.
Progressive Nation tours- Sitting through 3-4 bands I didn't want to see for a 90 minute DT show wasn't great.
Opening for Iron Maiden (was that his idea?)
Cookie monster vocals and the overly metal and extended songs.

DT seems like a cohesive UNIT now, more so than they were on the last few albums.

I think this is the one thing I think most of us would agree is missed now.  Take the apparent delay with the release of the Luna Park Blu-Ray/DVD.  There has been little info forthcoming from the band regarding the delay and whatnot, but had this happened when Portnoy was in the band, he would have at least given a few updates and solid reasons as to why it has been delayed.  I know some will say, "The band is busy with writing and recording the new album," but it is not like they are working on it every waking minute of the day, so would it really be so difficult for one of them to take ten minutes out of their day and give an update on facebook or twitter?  Apparently so.  Don't get me wrong, in just about every other regard, the band is now better off than they were four years ago, but that one aspect is definitely not the same.  Even as a "Portnoy hater" (as I have been called in the past), I can admit that.

[kirksnosehair]

MP used to be my favourite up until he left the band and kept taking jabs at the band on social media.

My opinion of him dropped rapidly due to that.

Mangini seems like he actually is grateful for what he got and is a far superior musician and person.

Plus the musical style on SC and BC&SL was getting really stale. ADTOE was a step in the right direction.

I agree with this and would just add that the co-lead vocals thing, especially the harsh/coarse grunting stuff was really starting to bug me

[Vivace]

I just need to know why the words "It's a blessing no one died, by the the grace of God above, everyone survived" would need to be followed by a screaming "ROAR" or sung in harsh vocals at all.

Hearts and stars
moonbeams and outer space
puppy dogs and kitty cats on my f***ing face

ROAR!!!!

[ronnibran]

I'd say I miss MP.  He's my favorite drummer, and I love the way he plays.  But I don't care for any of the projects he's been involved in, except for the ones he was already doing while still in DT (Neal Morse and Transatlantic).  I miss his drumming in a grand progressive metal setting.

On the other hand, I do like the creative freedom it opened up for the rest of DT in writing ADTOE.  For me, it was better than the last couple of albums (Octavarium is my fav).  And I have extremely high hopes for the new album.  I really do like Mike Mangini and am excited to hear the drumming on the new album.  I just wasn't as wowed by the drumming on ADTOE as other DT releases (not implying that has anything to do with Mangini).

[Madman Shepherd]

Things I miss:
The constant updates that Mike used to give us.
The bootleg series CDs
The drums being up front, hate the drum sound on ADTOE

Things I don't miss:
Mike's ego that was getting larger album by album. It was becoming "Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater", at least in his mind.
Progressive Nation tours- Sitting through 3-4 bands I didn't want to see for a 90 minute DT show wasn't great.
Opening for Iron Maiden (was that his idea?)
Cookie monster vocals and the overly metal and extended songs.

DT seems like a cohesive UNIT now, more so than they were on the last few albums.

I think this is the one thing I think most of us would agree is missed now.  Take the apparent delay with the release of the Luna Park Blu-Ray/DVD.  There has been little info forthcoming from the band regarding the delay and whatnot, but had this happened when Portnoy was in the band, he would have at least given a few updates and solid reasons as to why it has been delayed.  I know some will say, "The band is busy with writing and recording the new album," but it is not like they are working on it every waking minute of the day, so would it really be so difficult for one of them to take ten minutes out of their day and give an update on facebook or twitter?  Apparently so.  Don't get me wrong, in just about every other regard, the band is now better off than they were four years ago, but that one aspect is definitely not the same.  Even as a "Portnoy hater" (as I have been called in the past), I can admit that.

I agree with this to an extent but there was actually a good post over on MP's board about this...well, it was actually about the constant little hints at a studio album that MP used to throw out and he basically said he hated that.  People start to analyze track lengths and song titles and 30 second clips and I agree with him, it does get a bit annoying.  Of course, I love any glimpse we can get into what they're doing so it is a catch-22.

With that said, it is annoying we haven't got more info about what the delay is all about with the DVD.  Part of it is pure selfishness on my part because I will be on the road for 3 weeks straight this summer and I want to know if I will get to hear the new live DVD/CD...which it doesn't look like. 

[wolven74]

No more than I miss David Tennant in Doctor Who.

He had his time, he was brilliant - one of my favourite things about one of my favourite things - but we've moved on. The new guy's bringing variety, and his own take on the role, and the entire shebang's been mixed up. Cool man, but the new guy's doing great things, the old guy's doing new things, and I've got however many hours of the old setup still kicking about on umpteen discs I can play whenever I want. The past was great, the present's the best of both worlds as we can pick and choose, and the future's exciting.

This. Except: the old guy's doing new things This I disagree with. I'm glad that MP is happy doing the music he's doing now, but I wouldn't call what he's doing new. He still has his stock bag of tricks. His music is good, in a generic heavy metal type way, but it's all the same. He used to be an innovator, coming up with new and interesting parts that fit in well and enhanced DT's music, but as of Systematic Chaos all of his parts started to blend together. He's still an amazing drummer, but he doesn't fit what DT are doing now.

[robwebster]

No more than I miss David Tennant in Doctor Who.

He had his time, he was brilliant - one of my favourite things about one of my favourite things - but we've moved on. The new guy's bringing variety, and his own take on the role, and the entire shebang's been mixed up. Cool man, but the new guy's doing great things, the old guy's doing new things, and I've got however many hours of the old setup still kicking about on umpteen discs I can play whenever I want. The past was great, the present's the best of both worlds as we can pick and choose, and the future's exciting.

This. Except: the old guy's doing new things This I disagree with. I'm glad that MP is happy doing the music he's doing now, but I wouldn't call what he's doing new. He still has his stock bag of tricks. His music is good, in a generic heavy metal type way, but it's all the same. He used to be an innovator, coming up with new and interesting parts that fit in well and enhanced DT's music, but as of Systematic Chaos all of his parts started to blend together. He's still an amazing drummer, but he doesn't fit what DT are doing now.

I really like Flying Colors. Really like it - the difference between it and ADToE, quality-wise, is... it exists, there is a gap, but it's basically negligible. And I don't think it's quite like anything he's done before. So, from where I'm stood, he's made exactly as many really great albums as DT since they split. I think he's doing his stuff in genres that better suit him, nowadays. As you say, he's said he's moved away from Dream Theater music, and I think that's absolutely right. Generally, he plays in much better-fitting bands now, and he plays to complement the genres, rather than to reinvent them.

I don't think he's going to have any of the same runaway success that he's had with Dream Theater, and he's not going to be a brand new Portnoy, but I think he's going to put his name to some pretty darned cool music over the years, and more to the point, I think he's already started.

[philmcson]

Yes, I really miss MP in DT. When I compare MP- and post-MP-DT, it seems to me that the band has lost its heavy counterpart. Right now (although ADTOE is a great album) they seem to me like a bunch of musical nerds (with JP and MM giving some heavy parts but not enough IMO) and as many of you have mentioned, even a bit autistic regarding updates about releases, concerts etc.
MM may be a zillion times better drummer than MP and I'm really looking forward to his drumming on the new album, but no one has been able to create rotating setlists (give or take a few songs which were changed between nights) and really uphold the metal part od DT. As a personality and as an influence.

[Hayden]

Yes, I really miss MP in DT. When I compare MP- and post-MP-DT, it seems to me that the band has lost its heavy counterpart.

That's the word I was looking for. Well put.

[KevShmev]

Creating rotating set lists is not difficult; in fact, it is rather easy. The band simply has no interest in rotating set lists to the extent that they did in the early to mid 00s.

[ariich]

Creating rotating set lists is not difficult; in fact, it is rather easy. The band simply has no interest in rotating set lists to the extent that they did in the early to mid 00s.

And in fairness to them, they'd basically stopped doing that for the last tour or two when MP was still in the band. It was only really back in the Evening With days that they did that.

I also don't agree that they've lost their heavy side - BMUBMD and BITS have some monster riffs.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yes, I really miss MP in DT. When I compare MP- and post-MP-DT, it seems to me that the band has lost its heavy counterpart. Right now (although ADTOE is a great album) they seem to me like a bunch of musical nerds (with JP and MM giving some heavy parts but not enough IMO) and as many of you have mentioned, even a bit autistic regarding updates about releases, concerts etc.

Sorry but... How are BMUBMD, LNF, BITS and Outcry not heavy enough? Those songs are heavier or on part with the heaviest songs on pretty much all of DT's albums before ToT.
I mean, yes, MP was 'the metal guy' in the band, but musically, I don't feel like they lost their metal edge, they just eased off it a bit, compared to the previous couple of albums.

[Perpetual Change]

Before MP left DT, I was becoming less and less interested in them ever day. Or, maybe "burnt out" is the better word? I saw them 3 times on Black Clouds tour, after all...

Anyway, MP leaving DT made me immediately more interested in the band. Suddenly they seemed capable of doing things differently, and breaking the chain of  average records and increasing solidification of "stubborness" regarding how they write, record, tour, etc. ("stubborness" is harsher than what I really want to say, but it's all I can think of... "narrowness"? "predictability"?).

That said...

I loved ADTOE when it came out, and I'm sure I'll love the new album and new DVD. However, I'm less interested in the band overall than I was before now. I'm not sure why, but I'm positive it has to do with Mike leaving. For all his flaws, MP was great when it came to connecting with fans, and making fans feel like they were part of something special for being a DT fan, kinda like how Bruce makes being an Iron Maiden fan special.

With the latest DT lineup, I don't get that. I feel more like I'm part of a buyer/seller customer relationship than ever before, right down to the corporate answers we get about the DVD from JR and JP. Maybe I'm being nostalgic, but I have a feeling that, for better or worse, Mike  would have let us know what's really going on.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I just don't feel anything special about being a DT fan anymore. I'm still a DT fan, but being a DT fan is different now, more like being a fan of any other band. DT are still putting out quality music, which is all that really counts, but I haven't really felt passionate about them since Mike left. Maybe I'm just moving on in general, but that's how it is.

Does this post make any sense?

[KevShmev]

I am pretty sure that Petrucci is just as much of a metal guy as Portnoy; he just isn't as vocal about newer metal. 

PC, I hear ya. In my case, like I said in another thread, the height of my DT fandom was 1999-2000, and while a lot of that had to do with how awesome the LTE album and Scenes all were, it was also aided by Rush's hiatus and the fact that my other favorite bands at the time were either done or not releasing great stuff anymore.  In other words, there was no real competition for my listening time when it came to other bands releasing new, great stuff.  But I have gotten into a shitton of band in the last 12-13 years, so it is hard for any one band to dominate my music listening time for any extended period of time.  Factor in that Porcupine Tree has surpassed Dream Theater in my eyes, making them my default band now (ya know, that band, when you can't decide who to listen to, you just turn them on), and it is unlikely that Dream Theater will ever capture my attention as fully as they did back then, but they are still a favorite, I listened to A Dramatic Turn of Events a lot for a long time after it came out, and if any future album is great, likely will do so again.

[TheGreatPretender]

I am pretty sure that Petrucci is just as much of a metal guy as Portnoy; he just isn't as vocal about newer metal. 

But where are his tattoos, man!? You're not Metal if you don't got tattoos! 

[Perpetual Change]

I am pretty sure that Petrucci is just as much of a metal guy as Portnoy; he just isn't as vocal about newer metal. 

PC, I hear ya. In my case, like I said in another thread, the height of my DT fandom was 1999-2000, and while a lot of that had to do with how awesome the LTE album and Scenes all were, it was also aided by Rush's hiatus and the fact that my other favorite bands at the time were either done or not releasing great stuff anymore.  In other words, there was no real competition for my listening time when it came to other bands releasing new, great stuff.  But I have gotten into a shitton of band in the last 12-13 years, so it is hard for any one band to dominate my music listening time for any extended period of time.  Factor in that Porcupine Tree has surpassed Dream Theater in my eyes, making them my default band now (ya know, that band, when you can't decide who to listen to, you just turn them on), and it is unlikely that Dream Theater will ever capture my attention as fully as they did back then, but they are still a favorite, I listened to A Dramatic Turn of Events a lot for a long time after it came out, and if any future album is great, likely will do so again.

Yeah, the fact I got into DT during the CD age definitely has something to do with it, too. Thanks to services like Spotify and Google Music, I discover so much more new music, and rarely delve into any bands as deeply as I did DT or PT initially. So there's really no need to get all fanatical about one band. That's all well and good, but there's so much new music at my fingertips now.

[Nekov]

I do miss him mostly because I like his playing more than Mangini's and I also think he was a lot more fun to watch live because he has a very peculiar personality on stage which I know some of you don't like but I found it a very important part of the show. I went to see them during the ADTOE tour and I felt like something was missing

[Kotowboy]

I do miss him mostly because I like his playing more than Mangini's and I also think he was a lot more fun to watch live because he has a very peculiar personality on stage which I know some of you don't like but I found it a very important part of the show. I went to see them during the ADTOE tour and I felt like something was missing

Yes the lack of a band dynamic.  If the YT vids of the recent tours are anything to go by - they seem to be functioning as a BAND more than in the past. There's a lot more interaction between JP and MM than there was with MP and they all seem to be getting along better and JLB is singing better.

[Nekov]

I did not have that impression at all. I will grant that MP used to gather a lot of attention because of his showmanship but that is something I actually enjoyed a lot and that I think adds to a live show and that is lost here. I know a lot of people consider that now every member seems more important live and it feels like the attention is properly distributed but it's a live show, I want stuff that is different than just listening to the music and MP provided that.

And JLB singing better has nothing to do with MP not being on stage unless he has Jedi powers and was force choking him during live shows....

[bosk1]

And JLB singing better has nothing to do with MP not being on stage unless he has Jedi powers and was force choking him during live shows....

Um...you do realize that that is exactly what happened, right?  Why do you think Mike wanted a hiatus?  He planned to use that time to further hone his powers on Dagoba.