Abercrombie & Fitch CEO explains why he only caters to thin and beautiful people

[Ħ]

The language you've been using, antigoon, indicates to me that you are confusing being obsessed over something with merely caring about it. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with caring about taking care of yourself. But at a certain point, it's too much. And I see this all over the place. Just think about the thread we're in! People are willing to fork over loads of cash for a label that will make them sexier. I think that's one sign of obsession, isn't it? Steroid use is also prevalent today - people sacrificing their very health to look more attractive. That's obsession. And on and on and on and on.

[Ħ]

The only obsession I see right now is that of a cookie-cutter view of a man that only ever a minority of men really adhered throughout history and cultures.

Oh rumby, you're the wittiest lil' goat I know. 

[antigoon]

People are willing to fork over loads of cash for a label that will make them sexier. I think that's one sign of obsession, isn't it?

When has this ever not been the case in America, though?

[Ħ]

Perhaps you're right on that count. But even if you showed that to be the case, then that wouldn't show that our culture isn't obsessed with looks, the main issue at hand. I'd still say we're obsessed. You would just show that I'm wrong about our generation being less manly than previous generations, a different issue.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't think people are as obsessed with appearances as much as they're just obsessed with buying crap.

[rumborak]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

[lateralus88]

Guys hold on I think Hayden is onto something. I mean, he does know just about everything. Objectively speaking.

[Perpetual Change]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

Yup, true.

And, if H's "real man" archetrype is actually a recent invention, the tradition of males attempting to out-male each other based on some invented standard is not at all, and on a basic level is pretty widespread throughout the animal kingdom. Obviously buying attractive or expensive clothes is just another way males attempt to show that they're good potential mates-- that they're fit, financially secure, socially adjusted, and so on.

[rumborak]

Just as much as some others who are trying to push their own version of "proper male" in order to give it the desired social standing.

[Ħ]

Although you guys are trying to disagree with me, I'm not actually seeing where you're disagreeing. It sounds like we're on pretty much the same page - that generally, people are overly obsessed with appearance, social status, and buying things. And A&F is a manifestation of that.

[Ħ]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

Yup, true.

And, if H's "real man" archetrype is actually a recent invention, the tradition of males attempting to out-male each other based on some invented standard is not at all, and on a basic level is pretty widespread throughout the animal kingdom. Obviously buying attractive or expensive clothes is just another way males attempt to show that they're good potential mates-- that they're fit, financially secure, socially adjusted, and so on.

To that, I'd say the "real man" is just an archetype. It's just a conjured-up figure who we should strive to be like. Of course, there's nothing inherently "manly" about being courageous, loyal, hard-working, etc.  That's just a manner of speaking. But those are still good ideals to strive for, and so we create the image of a "real man" who instantiates these properties.

[Nel]

Courageous, loyal, hard working... I've been looking for a manly woman all my life then, I guess. 

[SnakeEyes]

I don't have a problem with it.  It's just that he shouldn't have SAID it.  It's a little insensitive.  Most "large" people are fat because they're .... well, just fat and lazy.  But, there are some people who are "large" and can't help it because of health problems and medicine.  To say, "we only target thin, 'hot' people,' is just insensitive to publicly say. 

[lateralus88]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

Yup, true.

And, if H's "real man" archetrype is actually a recent invention, the tradition of males attempting to out-male each other based on some invented standard is not at all, and on a basic level is pretty widespread throughout the animal kingdom. Obviously buying attractive or expensive clothes is just another way males attempt to show that they're good potential mates-- that they're fit, financially secure, socially adjusted, and so on.

To that, I'd say the "real man" is just an archetype. It's just a conjured-up figure who we should strive to be like. Of course, there's nothing inherently "manly" about being courageous, loyal, hard-working, etc.  That's just a manner of speaking. But those are still good ideals to strive for, and so we create the image of a "real man" who instantiates these properties.

The concept of the "real man" is bullshit and should be irrelevant in this day and age.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

Yup, true.

And, if H's "real man" archetrype is actually a recent invention, the tradition of males attempting to out-male each other based on some invented standard is not at all, and on a basic level is pretty widespread throughout the animal kingdom. Obviously buying attractive or expensive clothes is just another way males attempt to show that they're good potential mates-- that they're fit, financially secure, socially adjusted, and so on.

To that, I'd say the "real man" is just an archetype. It's just a conjured-up figure who we should strive to be like. Of course, there's nothing inherently "manly" about being courageous, loyal, hard-working, etc.  That's just a manner of speaking. But those are still good ideals to strive for, and so we create the image of a "real man" who instantiates these properties.

The concept of the "real man" is bullshit and should be irrelevant in this day and age.

[bout to crash]

For once, I'm not even going to touch that

This thread gives me an idea. I should start a website consisting of overweight models posing in Abercrombie and Fitch. Make it a whole new trend.

YES! Can we? I would be willing to put on a pair of jeans that are a few sizes too small for some good muffin top.

[ZirconBlue]

So, a corporation that caters to shallow narcissists is run by a shallow narcissist?

[mikaelslover]

Jesus christ H you're retarded

[Dimitrius]

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

Yup, true.

And, if H's "real man" archetrype is actually a recent invention, the tradition of males attempting to out-male each other based on some invented standard is not at all, and on a basic level is pretty widespread throughout the animal kingdom. Obviously buying attractive or expensive clothes is just another way males attempt to show that they're good potential mates-- that they're fit, financially secure, socially adjusted, and so on.

To that, I'd say the "real man" is just an archetype. It's just a conjured-up figure who we should strive to be like. Of course, there's nothing inherently "manly" about being courageous, loyal, hard-working, etc.  That's just a manner of speaking. But those are still good ideals to strive for, and so we create the image of a "real man" who instantiates these properties.

The concept of the "real man" is bullshit and should be irrelevant in this day and age.

[Ħ]

I''m not sure how a mere archetype to strive to be like is a bad thing. It may be a real person (Abe Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr., Susan B. Anthony, Ghandi), or it may be made-up and nonexistent (Batman, Link, the "real man"). It's just a figure that stands for a set of ideals to inspire people.

Obviously there is nothing inherently connected between being male and being strong. And yet we have this allegedly sexist axiom that "Real men are strong". But if you really break it down, all that really says is "It is good to be strong". And who is going to disagree with that? Of course it's good to be strong, value-driven, courageous, hard working, etc.  Those are values we should all strive towards, men and women alike.

And yet people are still going to misinterpret what I'm saying as something judgmental and sexist. Can't you see that we're on the same page?

[lateralus88]

No what I'm saying is there shouldn't be any standard whatsoever on how a person should be or what traits they possess. One of the biggest causes of self-esteem issues and low confidence comes completely from comparing yourself to others and to the standards you don't live up to.


Fuck that. Do what you want and be who you want (as long as it doesn't affect others directly in some negative fashion). The end.

[Ħ]

Don't you think there are values we should try to live by in life? I dunno - integrity, honesty, courage? Why not bundle all these good qualities together and slap them on the face of a hero? Inspire people. From my experience, it is people that inspire me, not isolated values in the sky.

[Perpetual Change]

Well this is odd, but I am in agreement with Hayden. I definitely feel him on the values thing, and prefer a society with at least some expectations regarding values to Alex's "just don't step on someone else's toes" philosophy. (Though, odds are, Hayden and I don't last very long at the negotiating table together before his values start making my values feel oppressed).

Now, if only anything Hayden is saying had anything to do with the actual topic...

[lateralus88]

Meh, I can't disagree that the traits are good to have. But the expectation is where I lose interest. If someone is going to find these values in their life, let it happen naturally.







oh also here is a .gif from my "currently giving a fuck" folder:

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I don't think people are as obsessed with appearances as much as they're just obsessed with buying crap.

People are obsessed with social status, and they always have been.

This entire thread demonstrates the real problem.  People are obsessed with what other people spend their time obsessing over.

[Dimitrius]

I don't see any gi- ooooh

[lateralus88]

I don't see any gi- ooooh

[hefdaddy42]

Jesus christ H you're retarded

Absolutely no room for this stuff here.  Knock it off.

[Perpetual Change]

Meh, I can't disagree that the traits are good to have. But the expectation is where I lose interest. If someone is going to find these values in their life, let it happen naturally.

Well, like I said, Hayden and I would probably get nowhere in determining which traits we thought were valuable. Or, maybe we'd get somewehre, but I doubt we'd get very far.

I think as a society we should be promoting at least some things, though, more than just the libertarian-friendly things.

But, like I said, I'm not sure how Hayden got on this, or how it's relevant to the thread.

[Ħ]

Meh, I can't disagree that the traits are good to have. But the expectation is where I lose interest. If someone is going to find these values in their life, let it happen naturally.

Well, like I said, Hayden and I would probably get nowhere in determining which traits we thought were valuable. Or, maybe we'd get somewehre, but I doubt we'd get very far.

I think as a society we should be promoting at least some things, though, more than just the libertarian vibe things.

Oh, come on, you've gotta give us more credit than that. We're both pretty good people. I mean, these are basically the values I hold to. I doubt you'll disagree...

[rumborak]

Regarding the "real men", I find it interesting that none of the men I can think of who stood out as prime examples of humanity in the last century adhered to that "real man" ideal. Albert Einstein, Alan Turing, Mahatma Gandhi, all diametrically opposed to your ideal.

[Perpetual Change]

Oh, come on, you've gotta give us more credit than that. We're both pretty good people. I mean, these are basically the values I hold to. I doubt you'll disagree...

Those are nice ideas, but I don't think they have anything to do with manliness. Or Abercrombie & Fitch. Which is why I'm wondering you thought it was necessary to bring that up. I'm not making the connection between the thread and the point you're making.

[Ħ]

The connection is that A&F fosters materialism and superficiality, two things that don't matter to a person of values. That's the connection.

And a "person of values" is all I meant. We can drop the talk of "manliness" and "real men".

And as an aside, I think the six pillars of character have everything to do with manliness. They are what separate boys from men.

[TioJorge]

I'M A GAWD DAYUM MAYYOOWWWNNNN

HE'S A MAYYYYNNN

YOU'RE A MAAAYYYYYNNNNN

IT'S A MAAAYYYOOOOOWWWWWNN LAAAYYYOOOWWWNNNNDDD

MAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNN

NOTAGAADAAAMWOOOHHMAAAYYOOWWN

[ZirconBlue]

And as an aside, I think the six pillars of character have everything to do with manliness. They are what separate boys from men.

Women don't have character?