CDs are irrelevant to me

[black_biff_stadler]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long CDs actually last? (If they're treated well)

I'd be surprised if there was any remotely accurate way to even begin to determine this when you consider that not all CDs are made from the exact same raw materials and also where to draw the line between "kept in near-perfect condition during typical usage" and "seldom used due to being cared for like an artifact in a museum."

As for me, I got my first CD 19 years ago and it still works perfectly.

[lonestar]

My copy of Who Are You is still fine, and I picked it up around 1989.

[Cable]

The internet is full of streaming and mp3's, and neither is anything I want. I'll stick with CD's until everything is available in FLAC, which I guess won't ever happen. Even the mp3 shops have a really poor selection of music available, so CD's is still the only way to get pretty much everything in a decent quality.

Poor selection online? Converse is true here; online selection of digital music blows physical stores out of the water, and big retailers are getting worse and worse. And I would say 97% of albums I can buy physically online are digital downloads too.

As far as Vinyl goes, I think it's cool that a lot of young people have gotten into it in the last few years, especially since it helps to reduce piracy a little bit.  And while I agree that the sonic experience is different, the idea that vinyl is in some way superior to CD is a myth.   The packaging is certainly superior if you like artwork, but the audio that is on CDs is objectively superior as is the medium on which it is stored and the method with which it is delivered to the listener.

I don't know about all this, but the vinyls I have almost always sound better than the CDs I have. Probably because the usually are remasters designed to sound good through respectable speakers, rather than MP3 masters designed to sound good on earbuds which I never ever use.

I've heard the subjective more positive record audio experience is due to audio artifacts. I guess the warm crackling sound gives the impression that the actual sound is better. Where as CDs are clean of this.
A bad analogy is tube/valve amps vs. solid state. Tubes do actually sound better, but they have that warm sound to it. And actually, SS has caught up to tube amps for many via Fractual Audio AxeFX.

[PuffyPat]

Forget everything I said earlier: I spin Edison Wax Cylinders EXCLUSIVELY.

[black_biff_stadler]

^This n***a

[Ruba]

And digital copies don't have artwork and booklets. They are one reason why I like CDs.

I don't really understand this popular reason for a lot of people to write-off digital music.  I'm not saying you're one of those, but I see this a lot for people not liking digital music altogether.

A lot of digital albums come with .pdf files of the artwork now.  Also, people listen to music over and over and over but how many read the booklet over and over and over?

I really haven't got acquainted with digital albums, but it seems a bit cumbersome to go to computer everytime I want to see the booklet (I don't have iPod, -Pad or any other device to listen mp3-files with).

On the road, most of the time people just take the CD with them in one of those CD carriers and leave the packaging at home anyway.  Sometimes people will cram the booklet into the CD slot but then it just gets mangled and ruined.  If you're driving you can't admire the artwork either.  It's the music that really matters.

I don't own a car, so these doesn't matter to me. Of course I can't read booklet when riding a bike or walking, but as you said, music is still more important than artwork, I can just listen to the music. Yeah, physical copies can be damaged, but you just should be careful with them.

Artwork is great and all but once I've gone through it once or for the first week having it nearby to read lyrics while listening and the new album is nice and fresh that's pretty much it for me with regards to the packaging.

If the artwork is really well done and supports the music, it doesn't really get old for me. The best booklet I've seen is probably the original CD version of Queensr˙che's Promised Land, in which the booklet is a poster with extended picture of the totem in the front cover and lyrics on the back. I am so mad it wasn't included in the remastered version, I must buy the original some time.

Artwork really matters to me. I can do without, but I rather won't.

[Orthogonal]

I would gladly give up CD's if the digital artwork *.pdf became the standard. There are lots of bands doing it, but even more that aren't yet. That's the final straw for me. I've got hundreds of physical discs doing nothing for me only because I want the lyrics/artwork 

[ariich]

I would gladly give up CD's if the digital artwork *.pdf became the standard. There are lots of bands doing it, but even more that aren't yet. That's the final straw for me. I've got hundreds of physical discs doing nothing for me only because I want the lyrics/artwork 

It also seems to vary by where you buy it. I buy all my mp3s from Amazon UK, and I think only once has it ever given me an artwork PDF. And I buy a lot.

[Cable]

People that are mentioning artwork/liner notes for digital albums... where do you get these when you download something? I have seen this for zero stuff I have bought (iTunes, Amazon & Bandcamp), so what am I missing???

[Chino]

I haven't bought a physical copy of an album since Systematic Chaos... Been digital downloads for me since then.

[TAC]

The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.

While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.

[wkiml]

^This n***a

Ninja?

[King Postwhore]

The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.

While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.

A perfect way of decribing it  TAC.

[kirksnosehair]

The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.

While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.

Yeah, that is a bit of a problem with digital, but I think you'll see more and more artists including a PDF with the digital version of their albums.  At least, I hope they do.  It's a bit of a pain, but what I've done when I was really interested in obtaining that information is to seek out the artist's website.   


The reason I've made the switch to mostly digital is both for the convenience and the price.  Most of the time when I buy a physical CD, I end up ripping it to MP3 and then I might carry the CD in my car for a few weeks, but then I typically toss it into the CD rack and it just collects dust after that. 

[ZirconBlue]

People that are mentioning artwork/liner notes for digital albums... where do you get these when you download something? I have seen this for zero stuff I have bought (iTunes, Amazon & Bandcamp), so what am I missing???

On amazon, look for albums that include "[+ digital booklet]" in the description.  Like this one.

[Dr. DTVT]

I really want to jump to legal online purchases...but I just can't stop buying physical product even though I know it isn't practical for me at all since I pretty much rip and rebox.

[Orthogonal]

A great it idea would be for someone like Apple or Amazon to create some sort of digital file viewer mode built into their apps like iTunes or the Cloud services where you can view the lyrics/artwork while listening to the music. iTunes already downloads the cover art, why not the whole thing? Maybe something like this already exists, but I don't know about it.

[crazyaga]

Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.

[me7]

"Almost unnoticeable" would imply that humans can hear frequencies higher than 20 kHz AND that musicians actually play notes above 20 kHz. Since neither is true, vinyl has no possibility to sound better than a CD.

[Perpetual Change]

Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.

lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.

Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.

[The King in Crimson]

So... basically what you mean is that if you take care of your vinyl, they should be fine barring any unforeseen calamities that are mostly out of your control?

So, kinda like CD's then?

[Perpetual Change]

I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.

Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read

[carl320]

People can't hear above 20kHz but the presence adds something in the mix that could be heard.

That being said, with the loudness wars and albums consistently being brickwalled in the mixing stage, CDs don't really sound as good as they could.  Digital distortion doesn't sound as pleasing as "warm" analog distortion.

On topic, I still buy CDs, albeit mostly used ones.  It's one way I use to find new artists/bands (along with DTF and YT).

[black_biff_stadler]

I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.

Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read

Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.

I think the biggest problem with this post...

lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.

Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.

...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping. The only times I had a problem with skipping was when it involved CD players that were in the kitchen at food joints I worked at since that likely involved people putting CDs in them which were handled with hands that were greasy or slightly soiled from having bits of food on 'em if they had recently bussed a table or washed dishes and hadn't had a chance to fully wash their hands. Wet hands could also be an issue.

Aside from these factors, those CD players also got knocked around a lot since they were usually on crowded shelves and got repositioned numerous times each day. As far as home CD players go, I have a 50-disc changer I got back in '98 that still works like a charm because it was treated properly.

On the other hand, your argument for vinyl involves saying they don't really decrease in sound quality but CDs stay in near-perfect shape as well if you handle them the same way these vinyl records you mentioned from the '60s were. I think there are some factors that you may not have considered:

1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl based on the average listener's usage habits since their small size makes them able to be stored in large CD booklets where their clarity can be compromised through the same friction you cited in your bricks-stacked-on-top-of-vinyls comment.

2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.

3. As of the 90s, the majority of people still buying vinyl were just collectors in a niche group and collectors obviously take far better care of their shit than the average joe. Also, the same people who used to let their vinyl records fall apart through mishandling were then becoming part of the CD crowd and likely continued to handle their CDs improperly which would somewhat contribute to whatever small level of negative perceptions people may have had about the durability of a CD.

[ytserush]

Digital distortion doesn't sound as pleasing as "warm" analog distortion.

Bingo. I'll take analog over digital EVERY time.  Vinyl...CD...doesn't matter to me.

[Perpetual Change]

Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.

Why should I care about tact when people are going to put words in my mouth anyway?

...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping.

Let me put it this way. Bringing an MP3 player into my car almost never ends in me accidently destroying my music. Bringing a bunch of CDs in did. So, why bother with the CD? What do you need it for?

1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl

Right. And considering I get MP3 downloads with every new vinyl I've ever bought almost, who needs CDs anymore?

2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.

Yeah, but again, who needs a fragile physical medium that's convenient to carry around with you when there's MP3 players?

Sorry, I just don't see why I should buy CDs anymore. I'm fine buying digital music for computers, ipods, cars, and work, and I'm fine buying vinyls and BluRays for home. CDs just have no place in my listening habits anymore.

It's like, anything CDs can do, one of the other mediums can do better.

[PetFish]

Hey, remember when portable CD players had the selling feature of an "X-second buffer" to take care of skipping during bumpy activities?  Portable tape players had "anti-rolling" or something but I can't remember what that even is.

[Perpetual Change]

I ruined so many CDs on my bus rides to high school. I always had the cheapest portable CD players around, and they'd skip like crazy every time we went over bumps.

I also had all my CDs stored in those CD binders, which apparently, in retrospect, is bad for them.

Thankfully I got most my CDs ripped and on a hard-drive before they got too bad.

[black_biff_stadler]

Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.

Why should I care about tact when people are going to put words in my mouth anyway?

...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping.

Let me put it this way. Bringing an MP3 player into my car almost never ends in me accidently destroying my music. Bringing a bunch of CDs in did. So, why bother with the CD? What do you need it for?

1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl

Right. And considering I get MP3 downloads with every new vinyl I've ever bought almost, who needs CDs anymore?

2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.

Yeah, but again, who needs a fragile physical medium that's convenient to carry around with you when there's MP3 players?

Sorry, I just don't see why I should buy CDs anymore. I'm fine buying digital music for computers, ipods, cars, and work, and I'm fine buying vinyls and BluRays for home. CDs just have no place in my listening habits anymore.

It's like, anything CDs can do, one of the other mediums can do better.

The posts of yours I quoted were these:

Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.

[1]lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.

Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.

[2]I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.

Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read

[1] You're clearly addressing a CD vs. vinyl comment.

[2] Same thing again.

I was refuting your CD vs. vinyl arguing points. You never mentioned, or even vaguely alluded to mp3s, at any point in those posts. For someone insulting the reading ability of others, you certainly aren't raising the bar yourself.

[rumborak]

CDs are really just the cassettes of modern day. A transitional medium until the next one came around. Vinyls, let's be honest, stick around mostly because they were the first and thus have a lot of nostalgia value to it.

[Perpetual Change]

Floyd, I have no idea what you're trying to say, or what I'm doing that your taking issue with. Sorry.

CDs are really just the cassettes of modern day. A transitional medium until the next one came around. Vinyls, let's be honest, stick around mostly because they were the first and thus have a lot of nostalgia value to it.

Thankfully it'll be a golden vinyl record which represents music if either Voyager is ever intercepted, not some crappy cassette or CD

[Bolsters]

What's so bad about skipping CDs? Sure it interrupts the playback, but isn't it just the laser being bumped out of position by a jolt? Nothing actually comes into contact with the disc, therefore I don't understand why anyone would imply skipping damages them. My first portable CD player back in the 90's skipped all the time, but those discs still play back perfectly for me to this day.

[rumborak]

Regarding FLAC vs mp3, I neither have the equipment nor probably the hearing left to detect the minute distortion a 320kbps mp3 introduces to the signal. I focus on the music, such tiny stuff is peanuts compared to some other music I listen to from the 70s that has horrendous recording.

[black_biff_stadler]

Sorry PC, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I just meant that I thought your argument about how vinyls were (seemingly) more durable than CDs seemed quite out of touch with reality since you exaggerated how much a car's CD player skips and made vinyls out to be more durable than CDs even though that matter has way more to do with the fact that CDs' portability means they're being used on the go during everyday travel unlike vinyls which are mostly relegated to casual listening at home and are thusly less subjected to everyday wear and tear.

In turn, you made that into a CD vs. mp3 thing which I wasn't even implying at any point.

[Perpetual Change]

Oh, I get that, and I agree with you. I don't mean to be comparing CDs vs. MP3s, but I'm just saying, there's not much room in my own listening for them. I do like to have a physical copy of things, but I'd rather have the vinyl or the 5.1 audio if available. When it comes to something I'd use "on the go", CDs used to be the go-to but now not so much. CDs are a good middle-ground between convenience and being a good physical medium, but they just fall short of other existing mediums in both areas. MP3s are more convenient and nothing can beat the sound of 5.1 audio or the packaging of vinyl.

So it's not that I don't like CDs or something. I still do look on my CD collection with some pride. But as time goes by I find that a CD is my least desirable version of something to own.