Star Trek Into Darkness [ Spoilers ]

[Kotowboy]

It was Khan's last ditch attempt to destroy StarFleet headquarters.

Plus Kirk mentioned it in his speech, commemorating those lost in the attack as a warning of what not to become again.

[BlobVanDam]

I am hearing it sucks. I tend to believe that from the reasons why. No story, just lots of effects. I liked the last one and I am not a big Star Trek fan in general.

If you liked the last one, and you're not a big Trek fan, you'll definitely like this one too. Just go and see it.

It was Khan's last ditch attempt to destroy StarFleet headquarters.

Plus Kirk mentioned it in his speech, commemorating those lost in the attack as a warning of what not to become again.

He mentions it quickly, after fast forwarding a year past any of the real repercussions of the carnage. It was very glossed over. The destruction of Vulcan was pretty glossed over in this film too imo. They make one mention to new Vulcan when new Spock calls old Spock, and that's about it. Oh, and Spock mentions it when talking to Uhura too.
I don't think the writers are big on consequences. They just do whatever they think is cool at that moment.

[Kotowboy]

I am hearing it sucks. I tend to believe that from the reasons why. No story, just lots of effects. I liked the last one and I am not a big Star Trek fan in general.

There's LOTS of story.  Admiral Marcus wants a war with the Klingons and so sets about exploring far flung corners of the Quadrant for tech that will help build improved weaponry. He finds the Botany bay and awakens Khan. He holds his crew hostage to force him to design super advanced ships and weapons. So Khan hides his crew in the same torpedoes. [ Admittedly this is the bit that confuses me.]

He gets found out and goes on the run, assuming that Marcus will kill his entire crew. He retaliates and then flees to Kronos to lure Marcus with the torpedoes. Meanwhile - Kirk is out for revenge at Khan for the attack on Starfleet and has a personal score to settle.
Spock believes that his revenge on Khan is no less morally right than what Khan did to Starfleet.

Instead of destroying Khan - they apprehend him and Khan goes willingly as they have 72 of his crew on the Enterprise. Khan reveals to Kirk what Marcus did and then Marcus shows up in the Vengeance to destroy the Enterprise under the false pretence that Kirk is in league with Khan.

Scotty meanwhile ( having been fired from the Enterprise for not signing for the torpedoes as he cannot verify what is inside them ) is on the Vengeance having been tipped off by Kirk to check out some co-ordinates given to him by Khan as proof that Marcus has built top secret ships.  He has disabled Vengeance long enough for Kirk & Khan to space jump over and seize control.

However - Khan kills Marcus and disables Kirk and fires on Enterprise after beaming across the 72 torpedoes.

Unbeknownst to hm though - Spock and McCoy have rigged the torpedoes to explode and they cripple the Vengeance.

With both ships now plummeting towards Earth - Kirk sacrifices himself to re-align the warp core so the Enterprise can be saved.

Bones finds out that Khan's blood can restore Kirk's blood cells ( wich were heavily irradiated ) and he puts him in a cryo tube to save his higher brain functions.

Spock takes chase after Khan and disables him - allowing Kirk to be saved.


But yeah - no story to speak of.

[yorost]

I don't know if Tick wants the story spilled out in detail before going.

[BlobVanDam]

A lot of things happen, there's just not a whole lot of effort put into internal consistency or logic. Typical action movie fare, but I can't say I've heard many people say it outright "sucks".
I really can't see how anyone who liked ST09 could dislike Into Darkness, because I think this is the slightly better film, and at least no worse.

[Kotowboy]

I don't know if Tick wants the story spilled out in detail before going.

Well it says Spoilers in the title and if he doesn't wanna know what happens - he wouldn't be reading a thread about it

[Kotowboy]

A lot of things happen, there's just not a whole lot of effort put into internal consistency or logic. Typical action movie fare, but I can't say I've heard many people say it outright "sucks".
I really can't see how anyone who liked ST09 could dislike Into Darkness, because I think this is the slightly better film, and at least no worse.

Yeah - the worst i've read about it is " It's as good as the last one. "

[yorost]

I don't know if Tick wants the story spilled out in detail before going.

Well it says Spoilers in the title and if he doesn't wanna know what happens - he wouldn't be reading a thread about it

Yeah, I suppose I said the same thing.

[BlobVanDam]

A lot of things happen, there's just not a whole lot of effort put into internal consistency or logic. Typical action movie fare, but I can't say I've heard many people say it outright "sucks".
I really can't see how anyone who liked ST09 could dislike Into Darkness, because I think this is the slightly better film, and at least no worse.

Yeah - the worst i've read about it is " It's as good as the last one. "

I think it really comes down to what you're expecting from this movie. There are Trek fans who are going to dislike it for its problems, and I can agree with them. There's also the average movie goer who wants an enjoyable scifi movie who will love it for the great action, and I can agree with them too. Neither one is wrong.
But objectively I can say that I haven't heard of anyone who liked the last movie, but disliked this one.

[Kotowboy]

If anything I preferred the last one primarily for how it made me feel after watching it.

A few people have said that you won't walk away from this film with the same level of joy as the last one and that's true for me even though this film is really good.

[MetalJunkie]

I am hearing it sucks. I tend to believe that from the reasons why. No story, just lots of effects. I liked the last one and I am not a big Star Trek fan in general.

Actually, it has quite a bit of story.

87% on rottentomatoes and  8.3 on imdb. I have yet to hear anyone just flat-out say "it sucks."

[rumborak]

https://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2013/05/16/star-trek-into-darkness-boldly-goes-where-weve-already-been/

This review exactly expresses how I feel about the movie.

[Kotowboy]

As sequels go - Into Darkness puts Iron Man 2 to shame.

Iron Man 2 is basically " all action - zero plot " incarnate.

[Kotowboy]

What I hate is walking out of a film you loved and hearing a group of teens already tearing the film to shreds - but with gripes that were adressed IN THE FILM.

 

" Hurrr Hurrr - those two spaceships fighting that close to Earth and no other spaceships came to investigate LOL "

Admiral Marcus is the CEO of Starfleet and i'm pretty sure he'd want to keep the USS Vengeance a secret.

He wanted to destroy Kirk himself and blame it on him going rogue and siding with a known terrorist and possibly Klingons.

I'm pretty sure he would have ordered that no other ships be sent to help with bringing Kirk in to risk finding out the truth.

[ResultsMayVary]

What I hate is walking out of a film you loved and hearing a group of teens already tearing the film to shreds - but with gripes that were adressed IN THE FILM.

 

" Hurrr Hurrr - those two spaceships fighting that close to Earth and no other spaceships came to investigate LOL "

Admiral Marcus is the CEO of Starfleet and i'm pretty sure he'd want to keep the USS Vengeance a secret.

He wanted to destroy Kirk himself and blame it on him going rogue and siding with a known terrorist and possibly Klingons.

I'm pretty sure he would have ordered that no other ships be sent to help with bringing Kirk in to risk finding out the truth.

Not to mention most of the Captains/First-Officers for the ships around Earth were killed by Khan.

[BlobVanDam]

What I hate is walking out of a film you loved and hearing a group of teens already tearing the film to shreds - but with gripes that were adressed IN THE FILM.

 

What about if they were walking out of the film talking about one of the many legitimate flaws and plotholes in the film that weren't addressed? Would that still be a problem?

[MetalJunkie]

MIND ASPLODE

Someone on Reddit pointed this out. McCoy was commenting on speed of cell replication in Khan's blood as he injected the tribble. Could that be the source of the tribble spawn rate?

[BlobVanDam]

MIND ASPLODE

Someone on Reddit pointed this out. McCoy was commenting on speed of cell replication in Khan's blood as he injected the tribble. Could that be the source of the tribble spawn rate?

As they multiplied just fine in the prime universe without being injected with magical fantasy blood, I'd say no.

[MetalJunkie]

MIND ASPLODE

Someone on Reddit pointed this out. McCoy was commenting on speed of cell replication in Khan's blood as he injected the tribble. Could that be the source of the tribble spawn rate?

As they multiplied just fine in the prime universe without being injected with magical fantasy blood, I'd say no.

How do you know they were never injected with magical fantasy blood?

[BlobVanDam]

MIND ASPLODE

Someone on Reddit pointed this out. McCoy was commenting on speed of cell replication in Khan's blood as he injected the tribble. Could that be the source of the tribble spawn rate?

As they multiplied just fine in the prime universe without being injected with magical fantasy blood, I'd say no.

How do you know they were never injected with magical fantasy blood?

You're right. It's very likely that in TOS someone swung by Ceti Alpha V to grab some of Khan's blood knowing it was magical and made animals spontaneously reproduce at an alarming rate, then injected it into a tribble so they could start selling it at local space stations.

edit: And I just remembered that Enterprise showed a tribble, and mentioned their crazy reproductive rate.

[Phoenix87x]

So I saw the movie last night and it didn't really do it for me, which is a shame since I really loved the first Abrams film.

I really liked the first act and the overall set up, but somewhere half way through the second act when Robocop showed up with his super secret death ship and his uninspired crew uniforms, I lost interest. I was like "oh I guess Khan will get that advanced ship somehow and they will fight or something" and when that scenario played out I was like meh.

[Kotowboy]

What I hate is walking out of a film you loved and hearing a group of teens already tearing the film to shreds - but with gripes that were adressed IN THE FILM.

 

What about if they were walking out of the film talking about one of the many legitimate flaws and plotholes in the film that weren't addressed? Would that still be a problem?

Is it a problem if I enjoyed the film more than you think I should have ?

[Kotowboy]

MIND ASPLODE

Someone on Reddit pointed this out. McCoy was commenting on speed of cell replication in Khan's blood as he injected the tribble. Could that be the source of the tribble spawn rate?

McCoy actually said the cells regenerate like nothing else - not reproduce. I.e. they heal at an alarming rate. Not replicate.

[BlobVanDam]

What I hate is walking out of a film you loved and hearing a group of teens already tearing the film to shreds - but with gripes that were adressed IN THE FILM.

 

What about if they were walking out of the film talking about one of the many legitimate flaws and plotholes in the film that weren't addressed? Would that still be a problem?

Is it a problem if I enjoyed the film more than you think I should have ?

I have no opinion on how much you "should" have liked it.

[Cable]

I called it right with villain in the Star Trek thread.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=19285.msg991494#msg991494

It actually pisses me off. The movie is fine I bet, like Star Trek. I just grow tired of someone at the helm ignoring all the other canon for a narrow focus on one movie because that was his favorite growing up. There are 10 other films, some bad ones, on top of at least 560 episodes.

I just don't buy fully into the JJ Abrams hype I guess, and I'm a grouch that is stuck in their fondness of past stories.

[rumborak]

So I saw the movie last night and it didn't really do it for me, which is a shame since I really loved the first Abrams film.

I really liked the first act and the overall set up, but somewhere half way through the second act when Robocop showed up with his super secret death ship and his uninspired crew uniforms, I lost interest. I was like "oh I guess Khan will get that advanced ship somehow and they will fight or something" and when that scenario played out I was like meh.

A lot of the stuff was soooo predictable. When I saw Bones injecting the Tribble with Khan's blood, I immediately thought " setup for later revival of somebody". When Kirk was supposedly dying all I waited for was for Bones to enter the scene. Which he invariably did.

[Jaq]

I don't know if Tick wants the story spilled out in detail before going.

Well it says Spoilers in the title and if he doesn't wanna know what happens - he wouldn't be reading a thread about it

Yeah, but there's a modest difference between spoilers and a plot outline. One is SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE.

Your post is a plot outline, lol.

[ResultsMayVary]

It seems to me that the majority of the people who are being fairly critical of/complaining about the movie are the people who loved the original movies and the series. These series of movies are a 'reboot,' so the new movies are not going to pan out the way they did in the original series, so you really shouldn't expect these new movies to do that. As someone who didn't see any of the original movies or the original series, I felt like they did a very good job introducing everything. Most people should know that if you've seen the original movies/series, most of what happens has already been spoiled for you. There are a few exceptions, but the new movies are based on the original Star Trek stories, and creating a completely new way of how events happened would have completely pissed off the Trekkies, rather than slightly pissing them off.

[BlackInk]

As I said in my mini-review I actually thought fans of the original movies and series would be very happy with this movie. I guess that was a misscalculation.

I have never seen any old Star Trek movies or a single TV episode and I was extremely pleased with this movie.

[MetalJunkie]

I am a fan of the original series and the movies. I love the new movies.

[Kotowboy]

I am a fan of the original series and the movies. I love the new movies.

[rumborak]

Same here. I loved the reboot, I just don't think the new one is a particularly good one.

[BlobVanDam]

It seems to me that the majority of the people who are being fairly critical of/complaining about the movie are the people who loved the original movies and the series. These series of movies are a 'reboot,' so the new movies are not going to pan out the way they did in the original series, so you really shouldn't expect these new movies to do that. As someone who didn't see any of the original movies or the original series, I felt like they did a very good job introducing everything. Most people should know that if you've seen the original movies/series, most of what happens has already been spoiled for you. There are a few exceptions, but the new movies are based on the original Star Trek stories, and creating a completely new way of how events happened would have completely pissed off the Trekkies, rather than slightly pissing them off.

The funny thing is, the majority of my issues with both movies are not because they deviate from Trek (although I certainly do have my issues there too), but mostly because they're not internally consistent, intelligent scifi movies, and in the case of Into Darkness, lacks originality considering the whole point of the reboot was to start fresh (which I guess relates back to the fact I'm a Trek/scifi fan).
I had never seen an episode of TOS when I saw the first movie, and had only just started to get into Trek at all, but still numerous found problems with it. There are many plotholes, and random things thrown in because they thought they looked cool, without regard for obeying the laws of physics, or following a sense of logic.

They're both excellent action movies, and on that level I enjoyed both a lot, and I rank them highly on the list of Trek movies (Trek has never worked all that well in movie form imo). But the issues with the movies extend well beyond merely "the ship isn't supposed to have the aztec pattern until the refit after the 5 year mission! Canon violation!"

[jingle.boy]

Really, REALLY loved it.  I just hate when there are more than a few 'lol-wat?' moments.  A couple I can handle, but when there are more than a handful, it bugs me.

Wouldn't a crack in Kirk's visor completely cause the suit to implode?
They were 237,000 miles from Earth when Marus attacked them... A), they didn't think to call Earth for help, but "new Vulcan"?
Does Earth's gravity really extend 237,000 miles?  Let's say it does for a second... then when the ship starts tumbling and spinning,  wouldn't it go into an all-out, out-of-control free fall?  Not sure how it flips/spins... levels off ... flips a bit more... levels off... and so on.
Falling that fast, thrusters aren't going to stop the ship in a matter of seconds without disintegrating it.
Boy, they sure disarmed those 72 photon torpedo's, pulled out the cryo tubes, and re-armed them pretty darn quick.
Since when do hand held communicators have a range or Earth-to-Kronos for Kirk to ping Scotty?
And the other things already mentioned, and I'm sure there are more.

Great movie, but as Blob points out, they ignore too much about the ST lore, and basic physics.

Oh, and Quinto was downright amazing - I liked his performance better than Cumberbatch's.  But, that scream was bad... just bad (and unnecessary).  Khan marooned Kirk; they had history; Kirk was on the communicator directly with him.  Spock just yelled it for shits and giggles.

[kirksnosehair]

[***SPOILER***]














































My nephew just came back from seeing this movie yesterday and his comments were:   


"Total ripoff of The Wrath of Khan"


"Decent movie visually but hamstrung by a ridiculous script"