Explosions Near the Finish of Boston Marathon

[rumborak]

  I'm hoping there's no trial to come of this and waste the money and time....he'll either blow himself up or he should be shot on sight. 

If you want this stuff to not happen again, him rotting in jail is far better. If he dies, a lot of copycats will see him as a martyr.

[Perpetual Change]

Everyone of us is born with a set of internal 'values' and knows right from wrong.

Really?

I'm not making excuses for the kid, and maybe this is more for P/R, but...

Really?

Probably is a P/R topic....but yeah. You know right from wrong. Right in this case being killing innocent people.

OK.

I find that incredibly naive.

Again, not making excuses for the kid, but it's a damn shame if what the media is currently reporting is true.

[Super Dude]

At the risk of turning this into P/R bait, it's interesting that this whole thing comes on the heels of the gun bill failing to pass. It's not like these guys are fresh off the boat; they've been here since at least 2009, if not earlier.

[gmillerdrake]

  I'm hoping there's no trial to come of this and waste the money and time....he'll either blow himself up or he should be shot on sight. 

If you want this stuff to not happen again, him rotting in jail is far better. If he dies, a lot of copycats will see him as a martyr.

I don't think either approach is going to stop it from happening again. Ever. That's why I'd try to respond to it the only way 'those people' understand....swiftly, brutally and without apology. A long trial IMO would just continue displaying weakness by the US. I'd take more of a General Sherman approach. They HATE us anyway, and that is not going to change. So if that's the case at least give them a good reason to hate us.

Everyone of us is born with a set of internal 'values' and knows right from wrong.

Really?

I'm not making excuses for the kid, and maybe this is more for P/R, but...

Really?

Probably is a P/R topic....but yeah. You know right from wrong. Right in this case being killing innocent people.

OK.

I find that incredibly naive.

Again, not making excuses for the kid, but it's a damn shame if what the media is currently reporting is true.

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

[El Barto]

And once again, my opinions on religion in this country are reaffirmed simply by a handful of posters in this thread.

[yorost]

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

Ever had children? ...or a serious conversation on philosophy?

[Perpetual Change]

My experience with kids abandoned by their parents and dumped in the foster system confirms for me anyway that gmiller's way off. You don't learn anything about right or wrong or proper behavior if you're not taught, and even if you are, you still might not learn.

 

[gmillerdrake]

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

Ever had children? ...or a serious conversation on philosophy?

I have three awesome boys who more than confirm what I believe. Serious conversation on philosophy? Sure.

And once again, my opinions on religion in this country are reaffirmed simply by a handful of posters in this thread.

Aimed at me EB?

My experience with kids abandoned by their parents and dumped in the foster system confirms for me anyway that gmiller's way off. You don't learn anything about right or wrong or proper behavior if you're not taught, and even if you are, you still might not learn.

 

Which is why I stated that after your born everything forward begins to manipulate that internal law. Of course kids need parenting and guidance, to be cared for... doesn't change the fact I think we all know right from wrong.

[Perpetual Change]

Which is why I stated that after your born everything forward begins to manipulate that internal law. Of course kids need parenting and guidance, to be cared for... doesn't change the fact I think we all know right from wrong.

What's the value in apparently "knowing" right from wrong if you just forget it all as soon as things start happening to you? Sounds like a pretty fragile "gift" God's giving out, if that's the case.

[King Postwhore]

My experience with kids abandoned by their parents and dumped in the foster system confirms for me anyway that gmiller's way off. You don't learn anything about right or wrong or proper behavior if you're not taught, and even if you are, you still might not learn.

It is a sad statement but very true.  My nephew is a prime example.  He learned so many of his parents bad traits.  He landed in jail.  Got out, lived with us on probation and didn't want to live a straight and narrow life.  Lied, hung out with his bad friends when he wasn't supposed to, missed curfew set by his parole officer.  We had to boot him out. 

[Perpetual Change]

My parents are in the same boat, King. He's on his last leg with them. He doesn't even have residential as an option, anymore. Continuing down the path he's on means juvenile detention. He doesn't even get what he's doing wrong and in the 5 years he's been around he never really has. 

[King Postwhore]

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

Ever had children? ...or a serious conversation on philosophy?
[/quote]
I have three awesome boys who more than confirm what I believe. Serious conversation on philosophy? Sure.
[/quote]

Which leads me to believe what a good job you have done as a parent.  Parents mold children, and most do learn right from wrong.

[gmillerdrake]

Which is why I stated that after your born everything forward begins to manipulate that internal law. Of course kids need parenting and guidance, to be cared for... doesn't change the fact I think we all know right from wrong.

What's the value in apparently "knowing" right from wrong if you just forget it all as soon as things start happening to you? Sounds like a pretty fragile "gift" God's giving out, if that's the case.

This is definitely a P/R topic and I've already de-railed this thread with some comments. If I get some time this weekend ill start a thread in P/R and try to articulate my point more clear. It's tough to do while st work, typing on a iPhone

[yorost]

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

Ever had children? ...or a serious conversation on philosophy?

I have three awesome boys who more than confirm what I believe. Serious conversation on philosophy? Sure.

Shocking to me. Babies and toddlers are so lacking in comprehension of the world, how does that jive with them understanding ingrained moral choices? They don't even get that you're a living entity at first, how can they understand morality? Researchers have shown some of these morality in babies studies are bunk, lacking controls to test immoral decisions. Babies respond to favorable stimulation, it's hilarious how you can see yourself reflected in your toddler. If you see 'moral' decisions how can you distinguish that from something other than a reflection of your own beliefs? Isn't it funny how your own kids follow your own moral ideals at first but if you have a philosphical conversation or read on philosophy things rarely match so well?

[gmillerdrake]

I happen to believe we are all born being able to distinguish right and wrong, that the laws of God are written in our hearts....and that everything from bat point forward is a choice. However the choices we make are influenced is a topic for debate but I believe that we 'know' when we're violating those laws.

Ever had children? ...or a serious conversation on philosophy?

I have three awesome boys who more than confirm what I believe. Serious conversation on philosophy? Sure.

Shocking to me. Babies and toddlers are so lacking in comprehension of the world, how does that jive with them understanding ingrained moral choices? They don't even get that you're a living entity at first, how can they understand morality? Researchers have shown some of these morality in babies studies are bunk, lacking controls to test immoral decisions. Babies respond to favorable stimulation, it's hilarious how you can see yourself reflected in your toddler. If you see 'moral' decisions how can you distinguish that from something other than a reflection of your own beliefs? Isn't it funny how your own kids follow your own moral ideals at first but if you have a philosphical conversation or read on philosophy things rarely match so well?

Again, I apologize for the thread de-rail and will 'defend' my position at some point this weekend. I could use a tip though on how to quote posts from this thread in the new one ill create so I can address them?

[rumborak]

I would reply in this thread (but not hit the post button) and copy-paste the thing over to the other thread.

[hefdaddy42]

I look forward to this particular discussion continuing in P/R.  Let's focus this thread on the case at hand.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Um, Chino lives in Watertown.

Watertown Connecticut, not Mass. I work 10 minutes from Watertown Connecticut so...

 

Oh, duh.  I knew that and I still forgot it was CT, not MA.  Oops.

[gmillerdrake]

I look forward to this particular discussion continuing in P/R.  Let's focus this thread on the case at hand.

Again, sorry for the De-rail. My bad.

I would reply in this thread (but not hit the post button) and copy-paste the thing over to the other thread.

Thanks. I'm not the most technically gifted person at figuring that stuff out.

[hefdaddy42]

I look forward to this particular discussion continuing in P/R.  Let's focus this thread on the case at hand.

Again, sorry for the De-rail. My bad.

No worries.

[El Barto]

Um, Chino lives in Watertown.

Watertown Connecticut, not Mass. I work 10 minutes from Watertown Connecticut so...

 

Oh, duh.  I knew that and I still forgot it was CT, not MA.  Oops.

Oh, I figured it was all the same thing. (It's probably still him, though!)

And once again, my opinions on religion in this country are reaffirmed simply by a handful of posters in this thread.

Aimed at me EB?

Not really aimed at anybody. Yours was one of several posts that led to the remark, but it wasn't meant to call anybody out or criticize anybody's beliefs or opinions. People feel the way they do and I don't fault them for that.

[rumborak]

Wow, talk about inappropriate: https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/541453_10151463629979232_720422878_n.jpg

[cramx3]

Slime. Hate how people use a crisis to push thier agenda

[Jaq]

Wow, talk about inappropriate: https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/541453_10151463629979232_720422878_n.jpg

Fucking douchebag.

[jingle.boy]

Wow, talk about inappropriate: https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/541453_10151463629979232_720422878_n.jpg

Fucking douchebag.

10 pounds of douche in a 5 pound bag.

[KevShmev]

With the house-to-house search going on, how does that work as far as getting a search warrant?  I mean, the law says you have to have a search warrant to search someone's house, so this is a case where you get one that applies to a whole city and is gotten in the interests of getting an armed terrorist off the streets?  Someone with legal expertise educate me here.

[yorost]

How can you tell he doesn't have the backpack in those last two? In a crowd I'll take a backpack off and carry it.like a normal bag. Maybe it's gone, I don't know, but it would seem normal to me if he were holding it in front of himself to protect it or keep it out of people's way.

Very true. The appeal of that particular bag is that you can carry it 4 different ways (and usually do). The dark spot just between the shoulder straps is actually a nice, soft handle. Also, it's so bulky that you have to be mindful of people steeling shit from it. I keep my laptop in that back pouch, so somebody with light fingers could conceivably boost it without my noticing, particularly in a crowd like that. In trains and subways you can lean against a wall. In that sort of crowd, I'd take it off and hold it in front of me.

Awesome bag, by the way. I recommend it to everyone who travels.

The guy was one of the suspects, ultimately, right?

[rumborak]

@Kev: Well, for one I would think the vast majority of searches are consensual, i.e. the people will be very happy for a squad making sure they don't have the fricking guy sitting in their basement. For the few remaining households that are deserted, I would think a search warrant is quickly procured.

[Chino]

Um, Chino lives in Watertown.

Watertown Connecticut, not Mass. I work 10 minutes from Watertown Connecticut so...

 

Oh, duh.  I knew that and I still forgot it was CT, not MA.  Oops.

I was terrified when I woke up this morning. I wake up, turn on the radio, and all I hear is Watertown, Watertown, Watertown! I didn't know a Watertown, MA even existed. I just assumed they were talking about the one in CT.

sooo.... Who saw the operating table pics?

[El Barto]

How can you tell he doesn't have the backpack in those last two? In a crowd I'll take a backpack off and carry it.like a normal bag. Maybe it's gone, I don't know, but it would seem normal to me if he were holding it in front of himself to protect it or keep it out of people's way.

Very true. The appeal of that particular bag is that you can carry it 4 different ways (and usually do). The dark spot just between the shoulder straps is actually a nice, soft handle. Also, it's so bulky that you have to be mindful of people steeling shit from it. I keep my laptop in that back pouch, so somebody with light fingers could conceivably boost it without my noticing, particularly in a crowd like that. In trains and subways you can lean against a wall. In that sort of crowd, I'd take it off and hold it in front of me.

Awesome bag, by the way. I recommend it to everyone who travels.

The guy was one of the suspects, ultimately, right?

Negative. And now he's afraid to leave his house because people keep recognizing him. Also, thankfully, once he showed a closeup of the bag, it wasn't mine.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/04/201341975840872269.html

[yorost]

Figures.

[El Barto]

With the house-to-house search going on, how does that work as far as getting a search warrant?  I mean, the law says you have to have a search warrant to search someone's house, so this is a case where you get one that applies to a whole city and is gotten in the interests of getting an armed terrorist off the streets?  Someone with legal expertise educate me here.

I don't know if this would qualify as exigent circumstances or not. Probably not, though. Interesting question, though. I don't know as I'd let Johnny into my apartment, even under these circumstances. Most likely scenario is that by talking to you for a few minutes, they could get a pretty good idea if you're harboring somebody-voluntarily or otherwise-or if you're just one of those 4th amendment whack jobs like me. My guess is that if they thought you had something to hide, they'd go in anyway and let the courts sort it out later. The kind of stuff they'd find in my place wouldn't interest them, as it'd probably get tossed due to the search.

This came up a couple of months ago with the Dorner manhunt. Johnny was searching every car on the highway. The conventional wisdom was that they'd just deal with the ramifications later if somebody wanted to make a big stink about it (which I gather no one did).

[rumborak]

EB, I would think even you would let a squad into your house if there's a chance there's a guy with explosives in it without your knowledge.

[eric42434224]

photo of the dead older brother

https://i.imgur.com/0U0ozqt.jpg

Warning, it is obviously graphic

EDIT:  This is a pic of the older brother after he has died, and looks to be in the hospital.  There are very bad wounds and is not for the squeamish.

[El Barto]

EB, I would think even you would let a squad into your house if there's a chance there's a guy with explosives in it without your knowledge.

Nobody's getting into my place without my knowledge.