All things Battlestar Galactica

[bosk1]

Maybe I need to rename this one then... 

[DebraKadabra]

The only problem I have with the final five arc so far is...well, actually nothing. 

Exactly.

[bosk1]

I hate Lee so much.

[yorost]

What'd he do this time?

[Dimitrius]

You should hate Helo.

[bosk1]

What'd he do this time?

Basically, publicly humiliated his wife due to his lack of self-control.

[yorost]

Payback for Billy. Really, she left Billy to be in this?  I didn't like her the rest of the series, I don't think they ever recovered her character.  You feel bad for her, that's all, but it's hard to not think she really shot herself in the foot.  I guess she loved an image of Lee, not Lee, because this behavior kind of makes sense with him.

Almost everything surrounding Lee and Dualla was a negative part of the show.  It was just a bunch of negative goings on.

[bosk1]

Payback for Billy. Really, she left Billy to be in this?  I didn't like her the rest of the series, I don't think they ever recovered her character.  You feel bad for her, that's all, but it's hard to not think she really shot herself in the foot.  I guess she loved an image of Lee, not Lee, because this behavior kind of makes sense with him.

Almost everything surrounding Lee and Dualla was a negative part of the show.  It was just a bunch of negative goings on.

Agreed on all counts.  The only thing I would add is a side dish of loss of respect for Starbuck that has been building for awhile now too.

[yorost]

Yeah, I can't remember how it all played out, but I recall it felt awkward the way things started going down between Starbuck and Anders.  Their relationship had seemed rather genuine and fitting, then all of a sudden it was a farce.

[bosk1]

So, overall, Unfinished Business wasn't a great episode by any stretch, but it was a neat way for the writers to tie up a lot of loose ends and somewhat get past a lot of personal baggage people would have been carrying since the occupation (or to...ahem...take care of unfinished business.  ).  Cleverly done episode that serves a clear, important purpose, but just unfortunately doesn't translate into good TV.

EDIT:  And, FYI, I watched the extended version.

[Perpetual Change]

Agree with all of that. It was a decent episode, and provided a good semi-reset for a lot of the characters and the issues they have going on.

As far as the Lee and Dee stuff, I'm still not sure what I make of it yet. In a way, I feel like their union was doomed from the start. Dee kinda betrayed Billy for her Lee infatuation, and I never believed that Lee was really that into Dee. I think from what we see in the show, it's pretty clear that he's meant to be with Starbuck.

That said, Lee could have tried to make it work, and he didn't. I'm not sure why, other than him really belonging with Starbuck. And considering her dishonest promiscuity, maybe Lee and Starbuck really do just deserve each other. 

[ReaPsTA]

EDIT:  And, FYI, I watched the extended version.

I haven't seen it, but I feel like there's a relevant piece of information here.

I would recommend to anyone that they watch the Pegasus extended version over the original episode.  It's just better in every conceivable way.  The whole thing goes slower, so there's a really dark and creepy vibe to everything.  Like, you know from the very beginning that things are going to go horribly.  But the way it all adds up, eventually getting to the point where Helo and Chief will be executed is just masterful.  It feels like watching an episode of premium cable.  It's the show BSG was meant to be.

The extended cut of Unfinished Business is an editors cut.  Unlike the extended Pegasus release, it's purposefully a rough version of the episode.  More of a what-if thing.  I have no idea if it's good or not.  I haven't seen it.  The fact you didn't like it though borderline shocks me.  It's one of my favorite episodes of the series.

IMO, it's best to avoid any other extended cuts except for the series finale.  There's an extended cut of an episode in particular near the end of the show that ruins one of the best and most important moments.

[yorost]

I haven't seen the extended cuts for 4.5, which episode number is it?

[ReaPsTA]

I haven't seen the extended cuts for 4.5, which episode number is it?

SPOILERS







I'm talking about the Islanded in a Stream of Stars extended cut.  The ending of the TV version is beautiful.  After the last few episodes of one terrible moment after another, finally something good happens.  Adama realizes what he needs to do with Galactica and legitimately reconciles with Tigh.  Zoom out on them with drinks on the couch with the Wander my Friends music.  Tears.  Scene.

In the extended cut, IT'S NOT THE LAST SCENE!!!!!!

[yorost]

You're right, the way it aired sounds superior.

[bosk1]

EDIT:  And, FYI, I watched the extended version.

I haven't seen it, but I feel like there's a relevant piece of information here.

I would recommend to anyone that they watch the Pegasus extended version over the original episode.  It's just better in every conceivable way.  The whole thing goes slower, so there's a really dark and creepy vibe to everything.  Like, you know from the very beginning that things are going to go horribly.  But the way it all adds up, eventually getting to the point where Helo and Chief will be executed is just masterful.  It feels like watching an episode of premium cable.  It's the show BSG was meant to be.

The extended cut of Unfinished Business is an editors cut.  Unlike the extended Pegasus release, it's purposefully a rough version of the episode.  More of a what-if thing.  I have no idea if it's good or not.  I haven't seen it.  The fact you didn't like it though borderline shocks me.  It's one of my favorite episodes of the series.

IMO, it's best to avoid any other extended cuts except for the series finale.  There's an extended cut of an episode in particular near the end of the show that ruins one of the best and most important moments.

Good info.  Thanks.  I did watch both the regular and the extended versions of Pegasus (I didn't realize there was an extended version until after I watched the regular version).  For Unfinished Business, I only watched the extended.  But if later ones have spoilers, I'll stay away from the extended versions until afterward.

[yorost]

It's not spoilers, you'd be fine with most of the extended cuts.  Definitely watch the extended cut of Razor, although that might be your only choice on the dvd.  The one ReaPsTA is specifically pointing out is just a bad artistic change.

for what it's worth, when I watch the series again it will be all of the extended versions.

[The King in Crimson]

"Unfinished Business" is the boxing episode right?  Can never remember episode titles, but if so, I always liked that one.  Some BSG fans like to crap on that episode, but I've always thought it was one of the stronger Season 3 episodes.

Ugh.  The Final Five is definitely the worst non-finale aspect of BSG.  Just so many miscalculations.

The idea is fine, but the writers made the supreme mistake of writing by the seat of their pants. 

When your show is heavily dependent on mysteries, intricate storytelling, foreshadowing and big reveals, it kinda behooves you to do a bit of fucking planning along the way.

[ariich]

I love the way the final five arc pans out.

[yorost]

By the beginning of season 3 they basically knew where they were going.  It's nice to think they should have had the whole series planned ahead to make something like the final five seem perfect, I've thought that myself in the past.  ...but they'd really be in trouble if they did that before finding out something wasn't working too well.  The best plans know they're going to change pretty quickly.  By not forcing themselves into things they could adapt much easier.  They laid down some serious suggestions Ellen was a Cylon right away, but never committed either way on her until they had to.

[bosk1]

"Unfinished Business" is the boxing episode right?  Can never remember episode titles, but if so, I always liked that one.  Some BSG fans like to crap on that episode, but I've always thought it was one of the stronger Season 3 episodes.

Yeah, that was the one.  There were definitely some things I liked about it.  And I think it was a very clever idea, and they covered a lot of really important ground.  I just ultimately felt like it wasn't something that was all that enjoyable to watch.

My wife is so addicted to this show now.  Hardly a day goes by where she doesn't want to pop in an episode after the kids go to sleep.  Last night was The Passage.  Very good, but very depressing episode.  And I really like the redemption of Kat.

[yorost]

You're about to hit a biggie.

Great ending on Passage.

[bosk1]

Yeah.  I kinda teared up again this morning just thinking about it.

Not sure what the "biggie" is, but I do know The Woman King is coming up soon!  Woo! 

[ReaPsTA]

One thing worth pointing out about the show given that we're posting on a music forum - the music on the show is very advanced.  Lots of key changes and complex harmonies and alternate time signatures and just subtly great writing.

[yorost]

Not sure what the "biggie" is, but I do know The Woman King is coming up soon!  Woo! 

The next two bracket the midseason break, i.e. cliffhanger pair imminent.

[bosk1]

Sweet.  Gotta love having them on DVD so I don't have to wait.

[Dimitrius]

One thing worth pointing out about the show given that we're posting on a music forum - the music on the show is very advanced.  Lots of key changes and complex harmonies and alternate time signatures and just subtly great writing.

I love Bear McCreary's work on this show! Own all the soundtracks and it's just very good music!

[bosk1]

Another thing about Passage:  Nice tie-in with the original series.

[The King in Crimson]

By the beginning of season 3 they basically knew where they were going.  It's nice to think they should have had the whole series planned ahead to make something like the final five seem perfect, I've thought that myself in the past.  ...but they'd really be in trouble if they did that before finding out something wasn't working too well.  The best plans know they're going to change pretty quickly.  By not forcing themselves into things they could adapt much easier.  They laid down some serious suggestions Ellen was a Cylon right away, but never committed either way on her until they had to.

Semi spoilers. There're no overt spoilers but I'm just being safe here.


When they introduced the concept of the final five they literally had no idea who they were going to be. I can understand that planning TOO much can be detrimental but there comes a time when you need to lay some groundwork and they really did not when it came to the final five. This is apparent with how certain plot threads are resolved.

[bosk1]

As someone who isn't there yet, I'll just say that I wish Baltar had used different terminology.  Given the context in which the term "final five" arose, that term is very misleading.  He should have just said "other five," or something like that.

[yorost]

We just had a sizable discussion on this.  They may not have decided until closer to the reveals, but they had an idea on 1-4 of them at the beginning of season 3.  They definitely had inclinations towards 2-3 of them by the point bosk1 is.  Ellen, they have come out and said they were thinking her as a Cylon since season 1.  Where we misread their interviews is that we take them saying they made decisions at certain points as being the first time they gave it thought.  They could drop suggestions on characters without forcing themselves into making them Cylons.

[bosk1]

Over the weekend:  The Eye of Jupiter, Rapture, Taking A Break From All Your Worries.  Pretty good set of episodes, and some interesting turns of events (although not the HUGE turns I was expecting).  Can't help but wonder whether the Threes being boxed was planned, or whether Xena was just too expensive to keep around. 

Next up:  THE WOMAN KING!!!

[ReaPsTA]

Can't help but wonder whether the Threes being boxed was planned, or whether Xena was just too expensive to keep around. 

Probably both.  The writers probably knew they couldn't keep Lucy Lawless around forever either because it was expensive or she would have other work to do, so they came up with a satisfying reason for her to not be on the show.

Over the weekend:  The Eye of Jupiter, Rapture, Taking A Break From All Your Worries.  Pretty good set of episodes, and some interesting turns of events (although not the HUGE turns I was expecting). 

From an overall plot standpoint, Eye of Jupiter and Rapture don't do too too much.  But they do contain one of the most mindblowing moments of the series - Adama nearly nuking the planet.  When Roslin reminds Adama that Lee is on the planet, the look on his face is disturbing at best.  Also, I love the way it plays.  Every little piece of minutiae associated with the process of launching nuclear weapons (a) Underscores how big a deal it is and (b)  Adds to the suspense because you see how Adama methodically goes through each piece of it.  You feel like it's only a matter of time until he kills his own son.

Next up:  THE WOMAN KING!!!

I'm sorry...

[bosk1]

Over the weekend:  The Eye of Jupiter, Rapture, Taking A Break From All Your Worries.  Pretty good set of episodes, and some interesting turns of events (although not the HUGE turns I was expecting). 

From an overall plot standpoint, Eye of Jupiter and Rapture don't do too too much.  But they do contain one of the most mindblowing moments of the series - Adama nearly nuking the planet.  When Roslin reminds Adama that Lee is on the planet, the look on his face is disturbing at best.

Yes, but completely justified.  I mean, as terrible an act as it is to make the decision to nuke his own people, the context of knowing that the Cylons, who had completely wiped out the populations of 12 planets filled with humans, and were now on their way to find the 13th and final planet where humans lived...  He just couldn't let that happen.  The Cylons potentially gaining information that would allow them to find earth would have been just unthinkable.

Every little piece of minutiae associated with the process of launching nuclear weapons (a) Underscores how big a deal it is and (b)  Adds to the suspense because you see how Adama methodically goes through each piece of it.  You feel like it's only a matter of time until he kills his own son.

Except that (c) we've seen nukes launched plenty of times throughout the series, and it has never taken that much logistical hoop-jumping.  Seems like a continuity error to me.

[yorost]

I love everything coming up with Baltar!

Eye of Jupiter and Rapture did more than most give them credit for, if you ask me.