Geoff Tate's "Operation: Mindcrime" (not Queensryche)

[greyghost]

OK, everyone, it just got weirder (didn't think it could, did you?)--https://cleorecs.com/home/queensryche-best-rant-contest/
A whole three days after releasing FU, Cleopatra's having a contest to see who can post the best rant about how much they hate it.  The counterintuitive grand prize?  A trip to Seattle to meet the band and watch them play live (you know, the band you just won a contest by expressing your disdain for!)!
W. T. F.

[El Barto]

It's a bit more complicated than that.  But as relevant to the question you posed, he isn't seeking dissolution of the corporation.  He is claiming they couldn't oust him.  And part of the problem is that, strictly going by the bylaws, the band has a problem because they never bothered to amend the bylaws after Chris left, and as I recall, the old bylaws say that you need 4/5 to agree to oust somebody.  There are several layers of issues, but the other big issue is that he probably wants a lot more out of the payout to get rid of him (including use of the name) than they are willing to give him.

I've been reading through all of the declarations, motions and decisions, and while I'm only up to the preliminary injunction hearing, Tate's side has been bringing up dissolution quite a bit. It tends to come up as though it would be a necessary and eventual outcome, but it still seems like that's what they're seeking.

All in all, reading everybody's declarations, including a lot of external parties, as well as all of Slater's posting from before this all blew up, it's a pretty interesting situation. There's obviously a lot of he said/she said high school bullshit, but taking all of it together, along with the perspective of longtime fans such as myself, it's pretty easy to get a good idea of how all of this went down, and it's not terribly surprising. At this point, I'm not sure I'd be willing to take either side. It's pretty obvious that Tate's really tarnished the band greatly, but the other guys certainly had a good deal to do with letting that happen.

[bosk1]

OK, everyone, it just got weirder (didn't think it could, did you?)--https://cleorecs.com/home/queensryche-best-rant-contest/
A whole three days after releasing FU, Cleopatra's having a contest to see who can post the best rant about how much they hate it.  The counterintuitive grand prize?  A trip to Seattle to meet the band and watch them play live (you know, the band you just won a contest by expressing your disdain for!)!
W. T. F.

[Nick]

I think this is just a clever blaze of glory attempt for Geoff to kick Samsara in the balls and waterboard him with some Insania.

[wolfking]

OK, everyone, it just got weirder (didn't think it could, did you?)--https://cleorecs.com/home/queensryche-best-rant-contest/
A whole three days after releasing FU, Cleopatra's having a contest to see who can post the best rant about how much they hate it.  The counterintuitive grand prize?  A trip to Seattle to meet the band and watch them play live (you know, the band you just won a contest by expressing your disdain for!)!
W. T. F.

This is just so when you get there, Tate can spit on you.

[jjrock88]

OK, everyone, it just got weirder (didn't think it could, did you?)--https://cleorecs.com/home/queensryche-best-rant-contest/
A whole three days after releasing FU, Cleopatra's having a contest to see who can post the best rant about how much they hate it.  The counterintuitive grand prize?  A trip to Seattle to meet the band and watch them play live (you know, the band you just won a contest by expressing your disdain for!)!
W. T. F.

Good Grief

[theseoafs]

I vote that bosk be the representative for DTF in this contest.

[abydos]

You know those tapes they put on real loud to break prisoners of war and use in other interrogations? I bet Tate's new adventures will be a hit among that circle of people.

[bosk1]

First week sales figures are out.  F.U. moved a total of 5,500 copies. 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=189411

[Perpetual Change]

How's that compare to Geoff's solo album?

EDIT:  I just spotified "I Don't Believe in Love" jsut for the hell of it. Man this isn't getting better.

[bosk1]

About double.  But still abyssmal.

[Lowdz]

Are they counting the cd sales and the remixed download as two? Can't believe 5000 people bought it.

[Perpetual Change]

Are they counting the cd sales and the remixed download as two? Can't believe 5000 people bought it.

That's not out yet, is it?

[emtee]

5,500 is actually far better than I expected.

[Nel]

Like I said in the regular Queensryche topic, I didn't even see FU on sale anywhere around here.

I'm really hoping the self-titled release doesn't do worse. 

[Nick]

I'm really not shocked, a steady decline from DtC. He's not picking up any new fans, but it has the Queensryche name on it and I think most of us take for granted the actual number of fans who monitor things as closely as we all do. I suspect the real Queensryche will do better, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't break 10,000.

[Zook]

FU is at Best Buy over here.

[bosk1]

I suspect the real Queensryche will do better, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't break 10,000.

I would be VERY surprised.  I think they'll do over 15,000 easily, and I wouldn't be surprised if they broke 20,000.

[emtee]

I'm guessing there are quite a few non internet, non forum users...QR fans that don't have a clue Tate and QR parted ways and I'll
bet they bought the CD. Casual fans who saw a new QR album and bought it.

And I'll be surprised if the 'real' QR album sells more than 8K.

[bosk1]

And I'll be surprised if the 'real' QR album sells more than 8K.

Based on what?

[emtee]

Just a guess based on recent trends. Hopefully they sell more. I'd love to see them move at least 11K so they can say they doubled
Tateryche's sales. But it's tough to sell units nowadays.

[TAC]

Just a guess based on recent trends. Hopefully they sell more. I'd love to see them move at least 11K so they can say they doubled
Tateryche's sales. But it's tough to sell units nowadays.

I think they'll hit 10,000 only 208 people per state not including Hawaii or Alaska. 

[bosk1]

Nah, it's not that tough to sell albums.  Here are some numbers for recent years:


Iron Maiden "The Final Frontier" (2010):  63,000 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 4.

Dream Theater "Black Clouds & Silver Linings" (2009): 40,285 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 6.

Symphony X "Iconoclast" (2011): 7,300 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 76.

Motley Crue "Saints of Los Angeles" (2008): 99,000 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 4.

Ratt "Infestation" (2010): 14,000 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 30.

Def Leppard "Songs from the Sparkle Lounge" (2008): 55,000 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 5.

Megadeth "Endgame" (2010): 45,000 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 9.

Opeth "Watershed" 2008: no sales numbers, charted at # 23

Rob Zombie (2013):  28,359 copies

Dream Theater "A Dramatic Turn of Events (2011):  40,285 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 8


Will they do the numbers Maiden or Crue put up?  Not nearly.  But I'd put them somewhere above Symphony X and below DT in terms of selling power.  Take Dedicated to Chaos out of the picture, which everyone who had heard clips knew was going to be crap, and they've done first week sales of 20,000 and above on every album going back all the way to Q2K (Mindcrime II did 44,000, but the "Mindcrime" tag jacked those numbers up, I'm sure).  If their pace with no promotion and Slater at the helm was consistenly over 20,000, and you have DT seling more than twice that on their past two albums, I think with the promotion they are getting from the new label and with all the pre-release touring they are doing with Todd, they should come close to the 20,000 mark again.  I'm sticking with my 15K-16K prediction because I think the numbers support it.  You could be right that it may not break 10K, but I think that's too pessimistic.

[El Barto]

Dream Theater "Black Clouds & Silver Linings" (2009): 40,285 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 6.

Dream Theater "A Dramatic Turn of Events (2011):  40,285 copies; Billboard 200 chart position No. 8

Now that's a steady fan-base.

Will they do the numbers Maiden or Crue put up?  Not nearly.  But I'd put them somewhere above Symphony X and below DT in terms of selling power.  Take Dedicated to Chaos out of the picture, which everyone who had heard clips knew was going to be crap, and they've done first week sales of 20,000 and above on every album going back all the way to Q2K (Mindcrime II did 44,000, but the "Mindcrime" tag jacked those numbers up, I'm sure).  If their pace with no promotion and Slater at the helm was consistenly over 20,000, and you have DT seling more than twice that on their past two albums, I think with the promotion they are getting from the new label and with all the pre-release touring they are doing with Todd, they should come close to the 20,000 mark again.  I'm sticking with my 15K-16K prediction because I think the numbers support it.  You could be right that it may not break 10K, but I think that's too pessimistic.

I don't think you can take D2C out of the picture, though. As I recall, their sales have been trending downward sharply over the last few albums. D2C was a continuation of their decline, not a sudden drop-off. While I expect them to do better with a better singer, and the curiosity factor of whether or not they can write songs, I don't think they're going to go back to even AS numbers. I think 10k is a pretty reasonable estimate.

Something else to consider is how many people who bought FU will also buy QR? I'm guessing a helluva lot of them are quite loyal to Tate and won't support the other version. That's splitting an already small fan-base.

[bosk1]

Regarding DT:  Oops.  Must have copied that wrong.  I know they're close, but not that close. 

Regardign QR:  Yeah, DTC was a sudden, sharp dropoff.  Here are the numbers from Q2K onward (not including the covers album because 1. it's a covers album, so it shouldn't count because those always sell less than a regular release, and 2. I don't know the numbers):

-Q2K:  28,000
-Tribe:  20,000
-O:MII:  44,000
-American Soldier:  21,000
-DTC:  8,000

If you just take the last three albums, it looks like a steady decline, but I don't think that's a fair reading because Mindcrime II wasn't really indicative of their normal numbers.  It was a big spike in sales, again likely because of the "Mindcrime" name.  They are in the 20,000's pretty consistently until Geoff does the Cabaret and they release DTC, which everyone panned before it hit the market based on the single and the clips. 

[Perpetual Change]

If QR can't match Ratt, there's definitely a problem. Anyway, I see them pulling Ratt level numbers, easily.

Though, I do wonder how many people fall through the cracks just due to ignorance. For example, Tatesyrche still has WAY more likes on Facebook than the real Queensryche.

[abydos]

Which one is that exactly? Doesn't Tate have the original Ryche facebook page anyway? That one had likes from like 10 years ago.

[Nick]

If they both had to build from scratch I'm sure that would be different, but when one side in an (as of now) equal dispute is able to hijack the page and continue on things become much easier. The ability of the real band to build back what they have is a testament to them.

[Perpetual Change]

If they both had to build from scratch I'm sure that would be different, but when one side in an (as of now) equal dispute is able to hijack the page and continue on things become much easier. The ability of the real band to build back what they have is a testament to them.

Yeah, I get that. Which is why I chalk it up to ignorance, rather than people making the bizarre choice to support Tatesyrche.

That said, it also doesn't help that Tate got his record out first.

[Nick]

If they both had to build from scratch I'm sure that would be different, but when one side in an (as of now) equal dispute is able to hijack the page and continue on things become much easier. The ability of the real band to build back what they have is a testament to them.

Yeah, I get that. Which is why I chalk it up to ignorance, rather than people making the bizarre choice to support Tatesyrche.

That said, it also doesn't help that Tate got his record out first.

Nope, and he knows that. That's why he decided to forego doing any song-writing, good recording, or quality control in order to be able to announce an early date right after the real records date had been set.

[wolfking]

Okay, as I made it known I quite liked Cold and said that I would buy the money and see what we get, mainly for the guest spots.  I also didn't mind a few songs from Tate's last solo cd.  So, I received the album in the mails after I think spending 14 or 15 dollars on it.  So I'm going to post a few thoughts on my initial first listen.  You can call me stupid now, but hey. it's $15, Tate will probably need it.

Also, I turned off Headspace to listen to this.

Cold: Wow, coming straight from Headspace, this album really does sound like shit.  It's demo quality, with cheap sounding guitars, Geoff sounds actually a bit drowned out due to the muddiness.  The song is still okay.  The thing is, this isn't Queensryche, and it doesn't sound like Queensryche.  Also, I do like Kelly's guitar solo.  Lukas Rossi writes this with Tate so I'm guessing most of the ideas here are from Lukas.

Also, the lyrics aren't in the booklet, which pisses me off a bit.  I never read them, but I think at least the booklet should have relevent info and lyrics.

Dare:  Pretty modern rock sorta of intro, and I'm not liking where it's going.  Typical childish type chorus. "You wouldn't dare hurt me, cause you just might get hurt yourself."  Fuck off Geoff, this song is hurting my ears at the moment and makes me want to hurt you.  This one is written by Tate and Slater which says a lot.

Give It To You:  What the hell is Geoff doing at the start, sounds like shit.  This one is from Slate and Tate and Chris Cox, whoever that is.  The verses are terrible, but the chorus isn't too bad, but really not enough to save the song.  It's better than the last song.  "How do you like me so far"  Hmm......really Geoff.  Robert Sarzo does an absolutely horrific guitar solo here, good lord, it's cringeworthy.

Slave:  Nice heavy riff starts us off here, could be okay.  Just looked at the credits, Tate and Slater, oh dear.  Jesus, fucking awful chorus.  Everything seems off time or slightly out of sync with each other.  I don't know who Chris Cannella is but his solo was nothing special.  Alright, but nothing special. 

Okay, I'm actually starting to get a bit fucking angry now, I had a shit day at work and this isn't helping.

In the Hands of God: "1..... 2" What the fuck Geoff, what??  Okay, Lukas Rossi wrote this one aswell so let's see.  Hmm....the atmosphere here is not too bad, but the chorus isn't really going anywhere. Ty Tabor adds a really nice melodic solo here which fits with the song really well.  Better than the last three but that's not saying much.

Running Backwards:  Now, Martin Irigoyen (whoever that is) adds to Slater and Tate song writing for dummies:  Geoff in his gay lord rapping mode, oh dear with some terribly of key notes.  The music for the chorus isn't too bad but Geoff's vocal melodies are shit and just all over the place.  KK Downing adds some really nice shred but the recording of his solo sounds shit and is mixed so bad you can hardly hear it.  It's like he did it in his home studio in 5 minutes and said, "yeah, that'll do."  The solo however is really nice and great to hear KK on tape again. 

Life Without You: Slater and Tate back at it again.  This sounds okay at the start, and I like how they use the Midcrime type clean chords in the verses.  Of course, Geoff ruins this totally, those vocals in the chorus are terrible.  Fucking Brad Gillis does his best to save this shit with an excellent Gillis style shred fest which pricks the ears, but it ends to soon when you hear Tater again.  "Life Without You"  SHUT THE FUCK UP, this is so annoying,  why would Gillis and Downing play on this shit! 

Everything: Same writing team as Running Backwards here and I'm pretty over it.  I gave Geoff the benefit of the doubt and tried to show him some love, but his shitting on me, or should I say spitting on me again.  The intro riff here is not bad, pretty modern sounding, and I like the clean guitars in the verses, and Geoff tries hard to hold a melody. FUCKING SHIT CHORUS, and Geoff sounds like an out of tune dying cow!  "We could have everything."  Man, this is painful, really painful.  Ty Tabor provides some nice guitar, he's trying to save it but Geoff singing over the top of him makes him invalid.

Fallen:  I just don't care anymore.  But Meniketti is on this one, so let's listen.  Boring after the first minute.  Wow, after 2 minutes this is just rubbish, Dave Meniketti actually was happy to play on this, that's quite depressing.  As expected, absolute killer solo from Dave, but again, he can't save this rubbish.  The outro solo however is incredible.

The Weight of the World:  Oh Geoff, you sound fucking done bro, just give up and kill yourself please.  Wow, just saw Chris Poland is going to do the solo on this, poor bastard.  Geoff simply has insulted all these great guitar players, but one must think how stupid are they for playing on this, it's mind boggling.  Okay, getting into the heavier section this isn't too bad, and Tate is actually trying to show a bit of real emotion and put in an effort here.  The atmpshere in the middle is actually quite good.  Beisdes Chris having an awful tone, he shreds this, incredible, love this guy's playing.  He might have saved this song.

Okay, for Geoff to release this and call it Queensryche, is an absolute joke.  I will give this another chance or two, but this album is a steaming pile of shit.  And every guest is more of an idiot for being part of it.  I gave Geoff the benefit of the doubt and paid for his album and he repays me with this fake bullshit.  Fuck you Geoff, I'm done. 

Oh shit, there's 4 covers I still have to listen to;

I Don't Believe In Love:  Who the hell is this Martin guy that did the music on these, he should be shot.  Wait, I just heard Tate first couple of lines, is this for real?   Wow, this is beyond a trainwreck.  Tate's fucking kidding us with this chorus right?  Wow...........just.........wow......to release this is just.......wow.

The cover is even more funny after hearing the cd.  FU Tate.

Empire:  These programmed drums sound terrible, absolutely terrible.  Why is he re-recording these, he sounds terrible, tired, emotionless and how about those backups before the chorus lol.  And then the chours. 

Jet City Woman:  Jesus, those chorus sound a bit sharp don't they?  These really are possibly the worst things ever recorded.  Fuck, these vocals are just absymal, my god. 

Silent Lucidity:  Turned it off after a minute and put Headspace back on.

I seriously think Geoff is taking the piss out of us.  I stuck with this guy over the last ten years, but this is just too much.  I am looking forward to the real QR in June, I might buy about 10 copies.

I think I might throw my copy of FU at some clown walking down the street tomorrow for laughs.

[skydivingninja]

If QR can't match Ratt, there's definitely a problem. Anyway, I see them pulling Ratt level numbers, easily.

Though, I do wonder how many people fall through the cracks just due to ignorance. For example, Tatesyrche still has WAY more likes on Facebook than the real Queensryche.

Well Tate took over the old facebook page so I don't think many of the fans there were made aware of the changes.

[TAC]

  I am looking forward to the real QR in June, I might buy about 10 copies.

Wolf, I hate to say it, but you only have yourself to blame. You should've just sent the money to Doug Pinnink!

[Lowdz]

Nice write up Kade, and sums up my thoughts. I enjoyed it the first time when the samples were up on Soundcloud but they are demos, nothing more.
Your comment about KK playing his solo in 5 mins and thinking "that'll do" is exactly Tate's thoughts about the whole album: throw something together cheap and get iot out first.
Don't see why I should care when he obviously doesn't. Gonna have to listen again just for the solos as in my 3-4 plays they haven't stood out, probably due to being dazzled by GT's shitness.

[Lowdz]

The re-records sound like Geoff "sang" over some crappy backing tracks  off Youtube.