Geoff Tate's "Operation: Mindcrime" (not Queensryche)

[KevShmev]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

[bosk1]

I am in that boat as well, Kev.  But I can't hold it against anyone who has moved on and doesn't have a problem seeing him.

[bill1971]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

I did not for a while because of that reason. Going back to the cabaret shows and his first few solo tours. I then started watching some interviews with him when I heard he was doing an accoustic tour and he seemed like a changed man.

[Samsara]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

I felt the same way at first, Kev. And I don't at all condone his actions, both physically and fiscally, against his former bandmates. But for me, personally, a few things transpired over the last year that helped get over everything as a fan. Not the least of which was Tate visiting with the band at the festival in the summer, and giving credit to the singer who replaced him. I thought that was a classy move. You can't change the past. But after some time, it sorta hit me that I shouldn't stop enjoying music just because the people who made it ended up not being the saints (and I am talking all of them, not just Tate) you thought they were. I was glad to see some healing, and it helped me move forward.

I am so very glad I went to Tate's acoustic show. And while I didn't have AS good a time this week as I did at the acoustic gig last year, it reminded me why I was a fan in the first place.

[Grappler]

Sounds like a decent show.  I'd probably have gone to see this tour, if I weren't limiting my concert attendance for the time being.  I haven't seen Tate sing since 2006.

For a while, I couldn't even listen to the original albums after Geoff and the band split.  But with enough time past and my interest in the current band waning, I binged on a lot of QR within the past year and found myself loving the albums like I did when I first got into the band.  I probably hadn't listened to those records for 5 years at least.  I've had experiences in my family where people holding grudges overshadowed some things and I've learned to just move on and not care about that stuff.  So holding any grudge against a singer that acted like a jerk six years ago just seems incredibly silly - it's just music.

[DragonAttack]

Could have seen him in DC or Baltimore in front of a crowd of 250 or so this summer.  Decided instead to take a cruise to Key West and Havana.

Good decision on our part

[pg1067]

I thought I posted here, but I guess it was on another thread. I also saw his 30th Mind crime tour in So Cal.

Coach House or Big Bear?  I was at the former.

I'm not sure I like Empire well enough to see any sort of anniversary show.  "Best I Can," "Another Rainy Night," Resistance," "Hand on Heart," and "Anybody Listening" are the only songs I really enjoy, but I guess that's nearly half of the album, so maybe.  I'd like to see a bunch of stuff from the EP and The Warning, but I don't know if he can pull it off.

[bill1971]

I thought I posted here, but I guess it was on another thread. I also saw his 30th Mind crime tour in So Cal.

Coach House or Big Bear?  I was at the former.

I'm not sure I like Empire well enough to see any sort of anniversary show.  "Best I Can," "Another Rainy Night," Resistance," "Hand on Heart," and "Anybody Listening" are the only songs I really enjoy, but I guess that's nearly half of the album, so maybe.  I'd like to see a bunch of stuff from the EP and The Warning, but I don't know if he can pull it off.

Coach house. I like the venue kind of hate the seating in the dinner area, pretty cramped. Still a great show and nice to see the show pretty close. I was wearing a Clockwork Angels Tshirt

[ytserush]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

I'd be more likely to go if it was a solo show, but I've been done with seeing Queensryche in any form for a long time now.

[jammindude]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

I'd be more likely to go if it was a solo show, but I've been done with seeing Queensryche in any form for a long time now.

I'm with Kev.   I wouldn't go to this show unless you paid me.   And even then, I would only go if I could tell Taint to his face that I didn't pay for the show, and only came so I could tell him he sucked.

[bill1971]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

I'd be more likely to go if it was a solo show, but I've been done with seeing Queensryche in any form for a long time now.

I'm with Kev.   I wouldn't go to this show unless you paid me.   And even then, I would only go if I could tell Taint to his face that I didn't pay for the show, and only came so I could tell him he sucked.

I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

[pg1067]

I thought I posted here, but I guess it was on another thread. I also saw his 30th Mind crime tour in So Cal.

Coach House or Big Bear?  I was at the former.

I'm not sure I like Empire well enough to see any sort of anniversary show.  "Best I Can," "Another Rainy Night," Resistance," "Hand on Heart," and "Anybody Listening" are the only songs I really enjoy, but I guess that's nearly half of the album, so maybe.  I'd like to see a bunch of stuff from the EP and The Warning, but I don't know if he can pull it off.

Coach house. I like the venue kind of hate the seating in the dinner area, pretty cramped. Still a great show and nice to see the show pretty close. I was wearing a Clockwork Angels Tshirt

That's about my feeling as well.  We were in the booth in the back to the far left (from the perspective of looking toward the stage).  Good steak, four bottles of Guiness, and an unexpectedly good show.  All in all, it was a great Friday night.

[El Barto]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

Tate's a douchbeag. Nobody argues that. At the same time I read through all of the depositions, including those of generally neutral parties, and came away thinking that he was getting way too much share of the blame on that whole deal. As we see all around us now in current events, trying to be fair about something that people are emotional about never really gets you anywhere, and that was the case with the whole breakup. People have moved on now, dead set in their interpretation of things.

In any case, I won't go to see him because he can't sing anymore. That's all the reason I need. Also, how much longer is he going to milk O:M. A 30th anniversary would make sense, except that he's been rehashing it every other year for the last 20.

[Stadler]

Not to be judgmental, but after everything he has done, I am a little stunned that anyone with knowledge of the shit he has pulled would go see and give money to Geoff Tate. I know, I know, it's all about the music, but still, you couldn't pay me to go see that guy.

Tate's a douchbeag. Nobody argues that. At the same time I read through all of the depositions, including those of generally neutral parties, and came away thinking that he was getting way too much share of the blame on that whole deal. As we see all around us now in current events, trying to be fair about something that people are emotional about never really gets you anywhere, and that was the case with the whole breakup. People have moved on now, dead set in their interpretation of things.

In any case, I won't go to see him because he can't sing anymore. That's all the reason I need. Also, how much longer is he going to milk O:M. A 30th anniversary would make sense, except that he's been rehashing it every other year for the last 20.

Pretty much this.   

[Samsara]

My wife won't go see him for the same reason - she doesn't want to ruin her memories. While Tate IS singing better (he's probably a step below the high mark he was at during 2005 when QR opened for Priest and did all the old stuff), he's still not great. He has a couple of great moments. And my wife just wants to preserve what she remembers, as opposed to what is. I can completely respect that.

For me, it doesn't bother me AS much, as long as the effort is there to genuinely deliver, and it has been (unlike the latter years of his tenure with QR), and if the performance is an overall decent one. A buddy of mine boiled it down to this - if you go, and you have a good time, isn't that what it's about. When I saw him sing on the acoustic tour in 2017, I had a good time, and that led me to this current tour. I didn't have AS good a time, but it was still fun, and the effort was there. So, if Tate does not reunite with QR, and ends up trotting out Empire in 2020 with a similar band, I'll probably go see it. I'd prefer QR do it with Tate (I dislike La Torre's voice on stuff post-Mindcrime), but if it ends up being Tate and his band, as long as YouTube shows they are playing that material decently, I'd likely go and enjoy it for what it is (cheap entertainment with a smaller crowd).

[TAC]

Sam, as close as you have been to QR over the years, that's great how you are approaching it. I think you said the key word in all of this.....genuine.

Does Queensryche playing the same old songs feel genuine to anybody?? Now I don't behoove anyone of making a living, and if I'm not going to judge them, why would I judge Tate going forward?

To me, my ears will tell me what I like and what I don't like. The fact that Phil Mogg and Michael Schenker got in fist fights does not stop me from loving either. I get what it means to be a real fan. A deep fan. Yes the music always comes first, but to go to the next level as a fan, you need to have a certain respect for the artist. I feel like as time goes on, this should help Tate, as long as he does indeed come across as genuine.

[Ben_Jamin]

The main band is ok live. Even though its mainly old hit songs. The one thing I don't enjoy though is the shortened Empire.

[pg1067]

The main band is ok live. Even though its mainly old hit songs. The one thing I don't enjoy though is the shortened Empire.

Shortened?  Do you mean the omission of Geoff's rap about early 90s fiscal policy as it relates to law enforcement?  That's the worst part of that song, and I was happy he left it out and used it as sort of a generic crowd interaction segment.

[Ben_Jamin]

The main band is ok live. Even though its mainly old hit songs. The one thing I don't enjoy though is the shortened Empire.

Shortened?  Do you mean the omission of Geoff's rap about early 90s fiscal policy as it relates to law enforcement?  That's the worst part of that song, and I was happy he left it out and used it as sort of a generic crowd interaction segment.

The build up to the solo is why I like that part. It sounds sudden without it.

[Stadler]

The main band is ok live. Even though its mainly old hit songs. The one thing I don't enjoy though is the shortened Empire.

Shortened?  Do you mean the omission of Geoff's rap about early 90s fiscal policy as it relates to law enforcement?  That's the worst part of that song, and I was happy he left it out and used it as sort of a generic crowd interaction segment.

I like that part; I don't even listen to the actual words; it becomes like a  Yes song at that point.  It's the rhythm and the sound and the buildup.

[Samsara]

That is the bridge in "Empire." When released in 1990, the lyrics were generally timely. But musically, I think they should always keep it. It has a really nice mood to it, and the build up to the solo.

[pg1067]

The main band is ok live. Even though its mainly old hit songs. The one thing I don't enjoy though is the shortened Empire.

Shortened?  Do you mean the omission of Geoff's rap about early 90s fiscal policy as it relates to law enforcement?  That's the worst part of that song, and I was happy he left it out and used it as sort of a generic crowd interaction segment.

I like that part; I don't even listen to the actual words; it becomes like a  Yes song at that point.  It's the rhythm and the sound and the buildup.

The words are (and, IMO, always were) so dumb that they are, for me, impossible to ignore.  Of course, I'm not a huge fan of the song as a whole, so....

[Samsara]

Funny. I never bothered to fact-check Tate on those numbers, but I suppose back in the mid-80s he was likely correct. But that song was used as a rallying cry for law enforcement to an extent (I have friends who are cops who consider the song to be pro-law enforcement). I don't mind the words so much because of that, even if they are dated by 30+ years.

[pg1067]

Funny. I never bothered to fact-check Tate on those numbers, but I suppose back in the mid-80s he was likely correct. But that song was used as a rallying cry for law enforcement to an extent (I have friends who are cops who consider the song to be pro-law enforcement). I don't mind the words so much because of that, even if they are dated by 30+ years.

Taken outside of the context of the song, the spoken word segment/rap is neutral because it merely recites data.  I have always assumed the point was to state that the federal government spends too little on law enforcement (which I guess is a pro-law enforcement point).  Even if I assume the data is accurate (and I'm skeptical that something that "accounted for . . . six percent of all federal spending" actually "ranked last in terms of absolute dollars"), the part I always found dumb was contrasting federal law enforcement spending with federal spending for national defense and space exploration.  Both of those areas are exclusively in the province of the federal government (national defense being constitutionally exclusive to the federal government), whereas law enforcement is done by the federal, state and local governments.  It also felt a little like I was listening to a CNN broadcast, and regardless of how I might have felt about the subject, it always felt silly for a metal band to be feeding me this information.

[bill1971]

Funny. I never bothered to fact-check Tate on those numbers, but I suppose back in the mid-80s he was likely correct. But that song was used as a rallying cry for law enforcement to an extent (I have friends who are cops who consider the song to be pro-law enforcement). I don't mind the words so much because of that, even if they are dated by 30+ years.

Taken outside of the context of the song, the spoken word segment/rap is neutral because it merely recites data.  I have always assumed the point was to state that the federal government spends too little on law enforcement (which I guess is a pro-law enforcement point).  Even if I assume the data is accurate (and I'm skeptical that something that "accounted for . . . six percent of all federal spending" actually "ranked last in terms of absolute dollars"), the part I always found dumb was contrasting federal law enforcement spending with federal spending for national defense and space exploration.  Both of those areas are exclusively in the province of the federal government (national defense being constitutionally exclusive to the federal government), whereas law enforcement is done by the federal, state and local governments.  It also felt a little like I was listening to a CNN broadcast, and regardless of how I might have felt about the subject, it always felt silly for a metal band to be feeding me this information.

Good analogy. It would be funny if evert night during that part he read some sports scores.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Funny. I never bothered to fact-check Tate on those numbers, but I suppose back in the mid-80s he was likely correct. But that song was used as a rallying cry for law enforcement to an extent (I have friends who are cops who consider the song to be pro-law enforcement). I don't mind the words so much because of that, even if they are dated by 30+ years.

Taken outside of the context of the song, the spoken word segment/rap is neutral because it merely recites data.  I have always assumed the point was to state that the federal government spends too little on law enforcement (which I guess is a pro-law enforcement point).  Even if I assume the data is accurate (and I'm skeptical that something that "accounted for . . . six percent of all federal spending" actually "ranked last in terms of absolute dollars"), the part I always found dumb was contrasting federal law enforcement spending with federal spending for national defense and space exploration.  Both of those areas are exclusively in the province of the federal government (national defense being constitutionally exclusive to the federal government), whereas law enforcement is done by the federal, state and local governments.  It also felt a little like I was listening to a CNN broadcast, and regardless of how I might have felt about the subject, it always felt silly for a metal band to be feeding me this information.

I'm pretty sure he says "a sixth percent of all federal spending", so 0.167%. If it was actually 6%, that wouldn't make sense because how could you spend 43 times more on defence if 43 * 6 is more than 100.

[Samsara]

I wasn't informed there would be math on this test. I fail. 

[pg1067]

Funny. I never bothered to fact-check Tate on those numbers, but I suppose back in the mid-80s he was likely correct. But that song was used as a rallying cry for law enforcement to an extent (I have friends who are cops who consider the song to be pro-law enforcement). I don't mind the words so much because of that, even if they are dated by 30+ years.

Taken outside of the context of the song, the spoken word segment/rap is neutral because it merely recites data.  I have always assumed the point was to state that the federal government spends too little on law enforcement (which I guess is a pro-law enforcement point).  Even if I assume the data is accurate (and I'm skeptical that something that "accounted for . . . six percent of all federal spending" actually "ranked last in terms of absolute dollars"), the part I always found dumb was contrasting federal law enforcement spending with federal spending for national defense and space exploration.  Both of those areas are exclusively in the province of the federal government (national defense being constitutionally exclusive to the federal government), whereas law enforcement is done by the federal, state and local governments.  It also felt a little like I was listening to a CNN broadcast, and regardless of how I might have felt about the subject, it always felt silly for a metal band to be feeding me this information.

I'm pretty sure he says "a sixth percent of all federal spending", so 0.167%. If it was actually 6%, that wouldn't make sense because how could you spend 43 times more on defence if 43 * 6 is more than 100.

I don't have my CD booklet handy (and I don't remember if the lyrics in the booklet include the spoken part), but every source I found has the spoken part as follows:

"In fiscal year 1986 to 87, local, state and federal governments spent a combined total of sixty point six million dollars on law enforcement.  Federal law enforcement expenditures ranked last in absolute dollars and accounted for only six percent of all federal spending.  By way of comparison, the federal government spent twenty-four million more on space exploration and forty-three times more on national defense and international relations than on law enforcement."

And that's what it sounds like to me (i.e., I hear "six," not "sixth").  If, in fact, it says "accounted for only [a] sixth percent of all federal spending," that would be horribly bad writing.  However, your point about the government spending "forty-three times more on national defense and international relations" is well taken, and all of this buttresses my point about why I don't like this section.  Even if the numbers are correct, the point is misguided, and I don't need or want a metal bend lecturing me about federal fiscal policy.  If the numbers are wrong, then it's even worse.

[Grappler]

Eh, to me, it feels more like a plea to the federal government to help out local communities with law enforcement - i.e., here's how much the government spent on defense and space exploration compared to how little they help us out at home, where people are dying from gang violence.

[Samsara]

Eh, to me, it feels more like a plea to the federal government to help out local communities with law enforcement - i.e., here's how much the government spent on defense and space exploration compared to how little they help us out at home, where people are dying from gang violence.

That's how I always took it too.

p.s. PG - thanks for writing it out. I just realized I never had that quote on my site from that song (just to clarify what is being said). I'll add it next time I do an update. I'm impatiently waiting for the 180 gram double LP of Empire to arrive today, along with AiC's new record (which has DeGarmo on a track).

[TAC]

Eh, to me, it feels more like a plea to the federal government to help out local communities with law enforcement - i.e., here's how much the government spent on defense and space exploration compared to how little they help us out at home, where people are dying from gang violence.

Right. And while I generally agree with this:

  I don't need or want a metal bend lecturing me about federal fiscal policy. 

I'm not completely put off by some general commentary in moderation. It fits in context of the track, plus no matter what the lyrics say, I think it's a really cool part.

[bill1971]

Eh, to me, it feels more like a plea to the federal government to help out local communities with law enforcement - i.e., here's how much the government spent on defense and space exploration compared to how little they help us out at home, where people are dying from gang violence.

That's how I always took it too.

p.s. PG - thanks for writing it out. I just realized I never had that quote on my site from that song (just to clarify what is being said). I'll add it next time I do an update. I'm impatiently waiting for the 180 gram double LP of Empire to arrive today, along with AiC's new record (which has DeGarmo on a track).

I heard some of their new album, it's pretty good. I didn't know DeGarmo played on it.

[Samsara]

Eh, to me, it feels more like a plea to the federal government to help out local communities with law enforcement - i.e., here's how much the government spent on defense and space exploration compared to how little they help us out at home, where people are dying from gang violence.

That's how I always took it too.

p.s. PG - thanks for writing it out. I just realized I never had that quote on my site from that song (just to clarify what is being said). I'll add it next time I do an update. I'm impatiently waiting for the 180 gram double LP of Empire to arrive today, along with AiC's new record (which has DeGarmo on a track).

I heard some of their new album, it's pretty good. I didn't know DeGarmo played on it.

He's not credited as a musician in the liner notes. But he plays the acoustic guitar in "Drones." Jerry wrote the part, but apparently couldn't get it right in the studio, so he asked Chris to do it. He called it a "spider-like chord," and given Chris' long fingers, it was probably easier for Chris to do. It's a cool part. Nothing huge, but you can tell it is Chris -- just not something he would write. But the tone is there.

[Samsara]

On February 16, Geoff Tate will be performing a gig with his Operation: Mindcrime band as the direct support to Fifth Angel, who is appearing at the Metal Assault Festival in Germany.

The kicker? Tate is apparently doing an old school metal set, composed of Queensryche songs from the EP through Rage. Honestly? Tate sings better, and his band is better, but I'm curious how they are going to pull this off.

www.facebook.com/metalassaultfestival

I mean, if I lived nearby, I'd go, as I am a huge fan of Fifth Angel, and I had a good time the last two times (this year and last year) I saw Tate perform. But despite Tate singing much better, this is going to take some effort. Sure. the songs will be downtuned, but I can't see them downtuning more than a half step, otherwise the songs will sound like mud. Tate better eat his Wheaties. 

Also makes me believe, given no Mindcrime, and no Empire, that Tate plans to go tour on Empire in 2020.

Should be a cool festival. If he pulls off this early QR material set decently, I'd be interested in seeing this stateside, after his Avantasia tour concludes.

[jammindude]

"Tate sings better..."

 

I have been a HUGE fan and follower since the EP, and I haven't heard Tate sing as well as TLT in over 10 years.