@Samsara
I truly believe that the current QR just wants to distance themselves from their older songs. Yes, they are playing the hits...but basically they are a new band with harder and heavier songs than anything they did post Promised Land. I'm sure Jackson and Wilton are not dumb, and they have discussed this (playing Empire completely). The current QR seems to be standing on a fine line between nostalgia act and relevant band. And that's why I think Jackson and Wilton are not doing the full Empire performance.
GG -- I totally agree that they should be doing their new material...extensively. They should have done that starting in 2014. But they didn't. They fell back into the comfort zone of playing old stuff because people showed excitement and they thought it would lead to something bigger. It hasn't. Right now, I agree, this past tour they embraced playing new material, and that's great, but it's almost too little, too late. The album had a lackluster debut, they mishandled the Scott Rock info (they still haven't properly explained it, although anyone following the band should have been able to figure it out by now), etc. They just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't think they will draw as much money as people think. The original lineup has to be there (at least 4 out of 5 without Degarmo) in order for the money to be there.
Not sure if you are including me in the word "people," but I don't necessarily think the money will be there. It probably won't be. But they would get MORE money had QR (current) beat Tate to the punch and said they were playing Empire in its entirety (on top of the rest of a set). It would have only helped them. They could have probably gotten a slight bump to their guarantees and still completely represented the new album and TLT-era songs. But they just...let Tate scoop them and ignored it.
It's taking a while but the current QR is rebuilding their brand and trying to be relevant. They found a nice balance (at least during this last touring cycle) of touring a new album (relevant band) and playing the casino circuits (nostalgia). They have a long way to go but that keeps money in their pockets. While Tate will tour with Empire, I don't think the promoters will be paying a lot of money for that. He was playing on very small venues during his last tour with O:M. I think the current QR will be making more money the way they are doing it right now than revisiting Empire (with the current lineup).
A lot here to respond to.
1. Yes, QR is trying to rebuild its brand and finally trying to be relevant. But you just illustrated my point with your second sentence. You said they found a nice balance on this past tour. I agree, it was balanced. So if you're still toeing that line, why NOT tour Empire in addition to your current record. That would keep them relevant, but also nod to the past and give them a bit of a bump, money-wise. They lost out now with Tate doing it, but they could have. Speaking of Tate...
2. I think you'd be surprise what Tate can get from promoters by playing Empire in-full. If it didn't pay, he wouldn't do it. You forget just how popular Empire is. I was at the Mindcrime 25th show he did. the venue was small, but pretty much sold out. Obviously, I don't know the guarantee that Tate took from each show on that tour, but while I agree it is less than QR, my point is, Empire in its entirety is a bump in the number. A bump that could be significantly higher if it was marketed as a reunion. It's all about optics/
3. Regarding QR, again, I fail to see the logic of your last statement. If CURRENT QR played Empire in its entirety AND did a set of its current record and other new stuff, a legit two-hour show, how would the extra bump by doing Empire for its 30th anniversary in that manner mean less money than they currently get for 80-minute headline sets of hits and the current record. That makes absolutely no sense. Empire would give them additional money, not less.
Look at Dream Theater. They played all of SFAM, and then also had a set of hits and new songs. I guarantee you they pulled more down $$$ from promoters because they featured SFAM. Anniversaries of landmark records bring in money. That's why bands do them. If you want to stay relevant, you can't JUST do that. And that's why DT has done their new record and other songs IN ADDITION to SFAM. That's the approach (on a smaller scale) that QR should take with Empire. But for whatever reason, they let Tate scoop them on that (either by choice or just not paying attention), and that is a mistake.
What sucks for them is Rockenfeld being a boat anchor for them financially (still have to pay him while he is not doing the work) as well as the losses (70k) with the Pledgemusic fiasco. I think this year will be fully devoted to offset those losses and potentially trying to buy out Scott out of his QR shares.
Good luck with that. That Scott situation is a lot deeper than most realize. Which again, supports my point that they should (before Tate announced his intentions) have set up 2020 to do a The Verdict + hits/Empire tour. That would have led to more money (bigger guarantees from the promoters) and then they'd be able to dig out of the Scott and Pledgemusic holes.
Which is why I completely don't understand the logic of what you mentioned above. I don't mean that disrespectfully, it's just I think what you are saying contradicts itself, at least in terms of realities of what QR is facing.
Tate scooped them, and it would be ironic if Rockenfield and Tate did Empire 2020 together, while QR did its thing, and as you alluded to, still allegedly having to pay Scott as a member of QR's corporation. Honestly, that situation, IF it exists in the manner you indicated, may ultimately sink them. Remember, at least as of last year, they still hadn't paid off Tate.
Topic: Geoff Tate's "Operation: Mindcrime" (not Queensryche) (Read 148632 times)
