bosk1's BOTTOM 50 DT songs v. well this is different

[bosk1]

I love Another Day. And I actually find it a lot of fun to sing.

Yup.

Also, I did find one '92 or '93 version that is pretty much nailed down to a T.

Long Island 92?

By the way, bosk, did you ever try to pull Another Day live? 

What do you mean?

Sing it. Maybe I used the wrong verb. 

Not with a band, no.  (None of the guys I play with play DT.  Well--we have done I Walk Beside You and Wither, but that's it)  But I have sung it, yes.  Why? 

[wasteland]

Just a random question. I remember you saying once that AD was positively out of your singing range, so I wondered if you had to try it to realize that. Archive this silly question. 

[The King in Crimson]

Alrighty then.  10 to go.  On with the show...

41.  Repentance - It's not that this song is "bad"--it isn't.  Not by any stretch.  But it just SO overstays its welcome.  There are a lot of truly great moments in the song.  And the spoken word part by the guests at the end is just a genius way of doing that part of the suite.  But after enough listens that the novelty wears off, it just doesn't work as a song.  I am perhaps more torn on this song than any in the entire DT catalog simply because there is so much greatness, and yet, so little replay value.  It's just too repetitive and too long.  It really needed to be shorter and needed something else in it to break up the monotony.

This description can accurately apply to any of the AAA Suite Songs (except TRoAE). I love Repentance now, though I thought it was boring when SC first came out. It's a nice change from the constant metuhl assault of the rest of the AAA Suite. So I disagree. 

Also, "Another Day" is nice, certainly better than "Surrounded" at least!

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I was torn between off and out, and I simply chose to leave both out and let bosk do the dirty job

LI92 is the clean F# and the Best TKH show!

Speaking of F#s and Another Day, do you know of any instances besides Seoul '99 where James hits an F# at the end of the song?

[wasteland]

None, unfortunately. We must therefore assume that it was a one off thing.

[bosk1]

Just a random question. I remember you saying once that AD was positively out of your singing range, so I wondered if you had to try it to realize that. Archive this silly question. 

No, it's fine.  I just didn't know where you were coming from on that. 

It's not "out of my range" per se.  I can hit every note in that song.  But I cannot properly sing that entire verse because it is too many high notes in succession without any real breathing space, which is the same problem James seems to have with it (and pretty much any singer would have with it). 

[bosk1]

Anyhow, on with the show...

43.  The Best Of Times - DT songs often have a lot of different things going on.  Usually, they find a way to make lots of disparate elements work.  Occasionally, those disparate elements end up clashing and not working well together.  This song, to me, fits into the latter category.  I think I see what Mike and the guys were going for.  They wanted something that was at times melancholy, but at other times upbeat and painfully nostalgic.  They have managed to capture that mood well at times.  But this song just fails in that regard.  It's greatest strength is its subject matter.  But unfortunately, given the subject matter, the fact that the song does not manage to connect with me on an emotional level at all ends up being its biggest weakeness.  When I listen to individual snippets of the lyrics, I can relate to what Mike is saying.  But there still doesn't seem to be much to emotionally be able to connect to in this song, which is odd given how universal the message is.  That is why I rank it so low despite some nice lyrical passages and the cool Alex Lifeson-ish upbeat intro (after the long, said string section intro). 

44.  Hollow Years - Never liked it.  No, not even the Budokan version.  Yes, Petrucci's soloing on that version did in fact take it up a few notches.  But now we are firmly in the realm of Dream Theater songs I do not like (and given that there are really only 7 out of 94, that's actually says a LOT about the quality of DT's discography).  Nothing in this song is interesting to me.  Can't really say much more than that. 

[BlobVanDam]

I don't have a problem with the placement of TBOT, but Hollow Years? Bosky, bosky.

[Zydar]

Here it comes again:

[The Presence of Frenemies]

BUT THE TBOT SOLO!

[Dream Team]

Totally agree on HY, the studio version bores me to tears. Literally the most boring song in DT's discography.

[bosk1]

BUT THE TBOT SOLO!

Yeah, good point.  It really is a great solo.  But we are also talking about John Petrucci.  He's got a TON of great solos.  A problem with The Best Of Times is that it isn't a cohesive song, notwithstanding some really cool parts, such as that solo.  And John has so many other great solos in songs that work much better as songs. 

[KevShmev]

I like both of these songs a lot, but neither would be in my top 20 nor in my bottom 20. 

And I agree that The Best of Times is flawed - JLB's vocals are nearly as passionate as they should have been, given the subject matter; and the lyrics are not very good, despite the sentiment - but musically it is so good and that solo at the end is aces, that I usually cannot help but enjoy it a lot.

[hefdaddy42]

I am with you on these, boss, despite that unbelievable solo by JP.  It's not enough to save the song.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

BUT THE TBOT SOLO!

Yeah, good point.  It really is a great solo.  But we are also talking about John Petrucci.  He's got a TON of great solos.  A problem with The Best Of Times is that it isn't a cohesive song, notwithstanding some really cool parts, such as that solo.  And John has so many other great solos in songs that work much better as songs.

I don't think he has solos that fit the song much better, though. That's what makes it such a great moment for me--it showcases such technicality while fitting so well within the song structure.

I agree the ten minutes preceding it are merely solid, but for me that solo just makes the wait so worth it. It's in my top 5 DT moments.

[Perpetual Change]

I've also never really liked TBOT. I don't actively dislike it it, and there are cool elements (The intro and opening riffs), but too much of the song just doesn't sound good to me. The sad intro feels unecessary and, honestly, sounds like it's from the soaps. While the first couple verses and subsequent choruses are good, the momentum gets completely derailed by the "the fleeting winds of time" section. Petrucci's solo is flashy, but I don't know why it's there, other than to save the momentum of the song.

The lyrics themselves aren't terrible, but Mike wrote them in such a way that made them very meaningful to his father-- and unfortunately no one else. On one hand, I can't blame him. On the other, as Bosk said, the result is a very emotional song that doesn't connect with anyone but the writer on an emotional level. TBoT probably still ranks above TSF on Black Clouds, but that isn't saying very much.

[?]

I've also never really liked TBOT. I don't actively dislike it it, and there are cool elements (The intro and opening riffs), but too much of the song just doesn't sound good to me. The sad intro feels unecessary and, honestly, sounds like it's from the soaps. While the first couple verses and subsequent choruses are good, the momentum gets completely derailed by the "the fleeting winds of time" section. Petrucci's solo is flashy, but I don't now why it's there, other than to save the momentum of the song.

The lyrics themselves aren't terrible, but Mike wrote them in such a way that made them very meaningful to his father-- and unfortunately no one else. On one hand, I can't blame him. On the other, ask Bosk said, the result is a very emotional song that doesn't connect with anyone but the writer on an emotional level. TBoT probably still ranks above TSF on Black Clouds, but that isn't saying very much.

I agree with all of this.

[bosk1]

Good way of putting it, P.C.  It's a tough one--I almost feel guilty for not liking the song more.  But it just is what it is.

[Another_Won]

These are fine where they're ranked.  If you ran into me on the street and asked me if I liked these songs, I would say yes.  However, when it comes right down to it I never really listen to them.  They just end up at the bottom of my list just by default. 

So while I agree with the ranking, I can't say we've gotten into the "actually disliking" realm yet.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Bummed to see Surrounded score so low.  Definitely one of my favorites.

[AngelBack]

Bummed to see Surrounded score so low.  Definitely one of my favorites.

Agreed, a top 10 for me.  One of JLB's best studio performances, a well constructed song, peaks perfectly.  And JP's guitar work (in b4 Flock of Seagulls) fits the song perfectly.

[Big Hath]

totally agree on Hollow Years.  One of the few DT songs I am tempted to skip.

[Dublagent66]

Soloing in TBOT good.  TBOT as a song, not so good.  Always liked HY, but just liked.  L@B version, liked more.  That solo.

[DebraKadabra]

I'm with you on TBOT, but Repentance, Another Day, AND Surrounded?!

[bosk1]

Yes.  But there's more...

45.  The Ministry of Lost Souls - Okay, DT.  You wanna have super long songs that really take a long time to develop the idea/story rather than just rushing through and getting it over with?  Cool.    Lots of interesting musical ideas that you wouldn't really expect to see combined in the same song?  I'm down with that.    Long instrumental section?  Sign me up.  And yet...this song just does not work for me on any level at all.  I am one of the first people to roll my eyes and jump into the fray when I hear people criticize Dream Theater or progressive rock in general for being overly long, pretentious, etc.  But this is a VERY rare instance where I feel that all the criticisms that people sometimes level at progressive music seem completely apprpriate when aimed at this song.  And yet, it still has some redeeming moments.  The instrumental section, for example, really is quite good.  But it would have been better served if it was in a better song.  Unfortunately, TMOLS suffers a bit from being the second to last song on an album that does not have a super-strong closer.  Yeah, In The Presence Of Enemies 2 is good.  But it suffers a bit by being separated from pt. 1.  By itself, it's a good album closer, but not a great one.  And the album as a whole really starts to lose a lot of steam in the second half, so TMOLS really feels like a chore to get through.  I usually only listen to the album now with a revised track listing where I have cut out the worst song in the DT catalog and rearranged the track order.  On that playlist, TMOLS is the album closer.  I sometimes still just skip it altogether and don't bother listening to it.  But I occasionally let it play, and I have to say, it works better to close out the album than it does buried in a weak second half of an album that starts off incredibly strong, but then feels like it fizzles out due to tracks like this one.  I really HATE seeing terms like "over-long," "pretentious," "boring," etc. used in connection with Dream Theater at all.  But...I really can't argue with terms like that being used to describe this song.  I apologize to those who like it, but I just don't.

46.  The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - Weakest song on WDADU.  I hear a few cool ideas buried in there.  But overall, there isn't anything that grabs me at all and makes me want to listen.  When I listen to WDADRU, it's just a song that I feel takes up a bit of space while I am waiting for the much-better Only A Matter Of Time.  Of course, James' voice being so tired by that point in the set does not do the song any favors.  But the album version is not any better. 

Wow, only 4 more to go...

[KevShmev]

Yeah, it seems like every major progressive rock or metal band has that one song that validates the opinion of those who accuse prog of being overly long, pretentious, and for Dream Theater, that song is most certainly The Ministry of Lost Souls. It has some great moments, especially the last several minutes, but it is difficult work just getting to that point.

[?]

No-one ever understands the awesomeness of TOWHTSTS

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think pretentious applies to TMOLS at all, maybe more like self indulgent. It is overly long. Let's just go with that.
It is a beautiful song, but the instrumental section in this one isn't necessary. The guitar solo is killer, but the rest does little for me.

And you can't go wrong with a pick from WDADU for the bottom end of DT's catalog.

[Zydar]

Finally I agree with your pick, with TMOLS. It's probably my least favourite DT song. I think I've managed to sit through the whole song ONCE without falling asleep.

[bosk1]

And you can't go wrong with a pick from WDADU for the bottom end of DT's catalog.

And I still have one last shout out to give Awake as well. 

So, any guesses for my bottom 4?  Two of them should be obvious at this stage.

[BlobVanDam]

And you can't go wrong with a pick from WDADU for the bottom end of DT's catalog.

And I still have one last shout out to give Awake as well. 

So, any guesses for my bottom 4?  Two of them should be obvious at this stage.

What are the chances your choice ends up being one of the ones I actually like?

[Scorpion]

Space-Dye Vest, definitely, and Prophets of War (though I disagree with the placement of both). Unsure on the other two... You Not Me? Just Let Me Breathe?

[The Presence of Frenemies]

TMOLS is a top 10 song for me. But TOWHTSTS is clearly a weak point.

SDV, PoW and YNM are three. And, I don't know...something off SDOIT or 8V.

[wasteland]

I won't speak of the future entries of this list, because I know them not, but I can agree with the dislike of The Ones. As for TMOLS, I used to love it, about 4 years ago, but unfortunately for it things have changed a lot since then. Now it's well outside the top 50, even though I have to say that listening to it for the first time in quite some time today, I enjoyed it more than expected.

[lithium112]

TMOLS is a top 10 song for me.

This. Such a beautiful song. It was my favourite song on SC until I stuck ITPOE 1 and 2 together.