A Perfect Circle

[Zook]

What is with this band and making albums that are only half good? On the first two albums, the first 6 or so tracks are great, but then the albums turn to shit. Very frustrating, because the first halves are pretty phenomenal with their perfect atmosphere and ambiance. I like APC way more than Tool, but I wish I could appreciate the first 2 albums as wholes, but BAH, they take a shit half way through *EDIT* with The Outsider and Pet being exceptions.

This is the same with Pearl Jam's Ten. Half the album is really great and then BLEH SNOOZE FEST.

This is an APC appreciation thread, but I needed to get out my frustrations.

[robwebster]

I'd... very strongly argue that Thirteenth Step's ace throughout. Heck, my two favourite tracks are in the latter half.  Not going to argue on Mer de Noms, however. The Hollow's ace, Magdalena's ace, and is Judith track four? Either way, loads of cool songs at the start, but it does basically fizzle, yeah. I hate it when my favourite track's right at the start. Not like the artist can help it, but I think a good album needs something to build up to.

[Nel]

What is with this band and making albums that are only half good? On the first two albums, the first 6 or so tracks are great, but then the albums turn to shit. Very frustrating, because the first halves are pretty phenomenal with their perfect atmosphere and ambiance. I like APC way more than Tool, but I wish I could appreciate the first 2 albums as wholes, but BAH, they take a shit half way through.

This is the same with Pearl Jam's Ten. Half the album is really great and then BLEH SNOOZE FEST.

This is an APC appreciation thread, but I needed to get out my frustrations.

I... agree with everything you said? Yes, yes I do! Though I love The Outsider, Pet, and Gravity. Emotive is a steaming turd throughout, though, barring Passive.

[Zook]

The Outsider and Pet are great indeed.

[WebRaider]

I'd... very strongly argue that Thirteenth Step's ace throughout. Heck, my two favourite tracks are in the latter half.  Not going to argue on Mer de Noms, however. The Hollow's ace, Magdalena's ace, and is Judith track four? Either way, loads of cool songs at the start, but it does basically fizzle, yeah. I hate it when my favourite track's right at the start. Not like the artist can help it, but I think a good album needs something to build up to.

I'm more of a Tool fan than APC although APC has been pretty cool as well. Have to agree about Thirteenth Step as I like it pretty much the whole way through. Mer de Noms does fizzle towards the end but I really like most of it through the first 8 songs and then the others aren't bad they just are there I'd say. Also Emotive is pretty bad cept I enjoy Passive and Counting Bodies.

[TioJorge]

What is with this band and making albums that are only half good? On the first two albums, the first 6 or so tracks are great, but then the albums turn to shit. Very frustrating, because the first halves are pretty phenomenal with their perfect atmosphere and ambiance. I like APC way more than Tool, but I wish I could appreciate the first 2 albums as wholes, but BAH, they take a shit half way through.

This is the same with Pearl Jam's Ten. Half the album is really great and then BLEH SNOOZE FEST.

This is an APC appreciation thread, but I needed to get out my frustrations.

I... agree with everything you said? Yes, yes I do! Though I love The Outsider, Pet, and Gravity. Emotive is a steaming turd throughout, though, barring Passive.

All this exactlys. I love APC to death, but they've got some stinkers. What they do have though is absolutely amazing. I'd love a new APC album over Tool actually, but I'll take anything from Maynard at this point.

[Zantera]

APC never really clicked for me. I like Maynard's work in Tool so much more.

[ReaperKK]

I was a big fan of both Tool and APC but I rarely listen to APC anymore. It just didn't age well for me and I really didn't like eMOTIVE.

[Phoenix87x]

I would say that 13th step is pretty solid with the exception of The Nurse who loved me. With the first album I like most of it but it has its ups and downs. I don't care for Emotive at all though and that's where my interest in the band just dropped off completely.

on a side note,

My very first concert was APC during the Mer de noms tour and it was absolutely phenomenal. Maynard was right up front and center and that man was on fire that night, giving it every ounce of his soul. Singing passionately, cracking jokes and constantly interacting with the audience, he had the crowd wrapped around his finger and I stood there captivated. It still stands as one of my favorite concerts.

All of that was a stark contrast to when I saw Tool last year and he stood back in the corner, shrouded in darkness, barely moving and maybe said one word to the audience the whole night. At first I thought it was a Tool thing, but then watching recent APC live videos, he's doing it with them too.

He's free to do whatever he wants and don't think I'm knocking him for performing the way that he wants to perform, but I'm just glad that I got to see him at his full potential.

[Super Dude]

What is with this band and making albums that are only half good? On the first two albums, the first 6 or so tracks are great, but then the albums turn to shit. Very frustrating, because the first halves are pretty phenomenal with their perfect atmosphere and ambiance. I like APC way more than Tool, but I wish I could appreciate the first 2 albums as wholes, but BAH, they take a shit half way through.

This is the same with Pearl Jam's Ten. Half the album is really great and then BLEH SNOOZE FEST.

This is an APC appreciation thread, but I needed to get out my frustrations.

I... agree with everything you said? Yes, yes I do! Though I love The Outsider, Pet, and Gravity. Emotive is a steaming turd throughout, though, barring Passive.

Yeah, I was just thinking about this today as I was loading up my iPhone for work. Gravity is pretty good, but at around the Outsider, I almost completely lose interest. Doesn't help that Crimes and Lullaby are just filler tracks.

On a somewhat related note, Blue is absolutely phenomenal. I've had this album for nearly seven years and its still my favorite track.

[Perpetual Change]

I'd say both albums are fantastic from beginning to end. Anyone who likes APC should also check out Ashes Divide.

eMotive sucks, but I've always pretended it just doesn't exist.

[TioJorge]

I thought Ashes Divide was mediocre at best. I was really excited when I first heard them but I really only like one or two of their songs, The Stone being my favorite. Eh, I probably expected too much, but it was an underwhelming experience to me; perhaps I didn't open myself up enough though. I really love The Stone so...they may get another run one day when I'm not bogged down by a mountain of albums.

[Perpetual Change]

I thought Ashes Divide was mediocre at best. I was really excited when I first heard them but I really only like one or two of their songs, The Stone being my favorite. Eh, I probably expected too much, but it was an underwhelming experience to me; perhaps I didn't open myself up enough though. I really love The Stone so...they may get another run one day when I'm not bogged down by a mountain of albums.

It hasn't aged well, especially the super compressed production.

But I dunno, after eMotive I was more than happy to get that out of Billy. Maynard kinda ruined APC, imo.

[Zook]

Was it Maynard's idea to make a covers album?

[Perpetual Change]

Was it Maynard's idea to make a covers album?

Yup. I was in the thick of APC fandom then, and eMotive was Maynard's way of campaigning for John Kerry.

[Ben_Jamin]

I actually like eMOTIVE. The only song i dont really like is CBLS. Other than that I really enjoy their interpretations of those songs.

[Zook]

Was it Maynard's idea to make a covers album?

Yup. I was in the thick of APC fandom then, and eMotive was Maynard's way of campaigning for John Kerry.

DAMN HIM!!!!

I bought Emotive and never made it through the whole thing. I wasn't sure what the hell it was until I looked it up.

[WindMaster]

APC never really clicked for me. I like Maynard's work in Tool so much more.

[DebraKadabra]

I would say that 13th step is pretty solid with the exception of The Nurse who loved me.

YES.  The original, by Failure, is MUCH better than the APC cover.

[PixelDream]

A Perfect Circle is awesome. I'm down with Tool being the main focus and APC the side project, but if it was the other way around I'd be happy too. APC's two albums are really beautiful, but I really dislike Emotive for some reason.

[Perpetual Change]

The opinion that Tool is the main course and APC just a side dish is so wrong, on so many levels.

First and foremost, APC isn't about Maynard, or never was supposed to be. APC is not Maynard's "side project", or Maynard's band at all. APC is Billy Howerdel's band, of which Maynard Keenan was a member.

Anyway, Maynard Keenan hijacked the band and now it's just an empty pit for ideas that he doesn't want to use with Tool or his terrible solo project, Puscifer.

Billy probably should have gone with a different singer if he didn't want to get sidelined in his own band, but Maynard being in APC got the band way more attention than they would have otherwise.

It seems like bringing Maynard into a band is like bringing MP into a band; once you do, it's never really "yours" again. Just by being there, Maynard naturally exerts a certain amount of creative control, and draws a faction of zealous fanboys who only like the project because of him.

[Super Dude]

The opinion that Tool is the main course and APC just a side dish is so wrong, on so many levels.

First and foremost, APC isn't about Maynard, or never was supposed to be. APC is not Maynard's "side project", or Maynard's band at all. APC is Billy Howerdel's band, of which Maynard Keenan was a member.

Anyway, Maynard Keenan hijacked the band and now it's just an empty pit for ideas that he doesn't want to use with Tool or his terrible solo project, Puscifer.

Billy probably should have gone with a different singer if he didn't want to get sidelined in his own band, but Maynard being in APC got the band way more attention than they would have otherwise.

It seems like bringing Maynard into a band is like bringing MP into a band; once you do, it's never really "yours" again. Just by being there, Maynard naturally exerts a certain amount of creative control, and draws a faction of zealous fanboys who only like the project because of him.

Interesting. I'd love to check out some of Howerdel's other bands then. AFAIC, the first half of The Thirteenth Step are the best songs in my entire music library.

[NotePad]

I'm giving this thread another life

A few years or so ago I bought "13th Step" just kind of on a whim. Not sure why, think i may have seen them perform on Leno i think. Saw the album, bought it.

At first I was somewhat bewildered. The music was so different then what i usually listened to. For some reason at first the vocals kinda sorta reminded me of Warrel Dane from Nevermore. Now i don't know how i coulda thought that, but i did.

To this day 13th Step is one of my favorite albums. It's very personal to me. I would describe the sound of 13th Step as being like a metal version of The Cure's 'Disintegration'. The lyrics are amazing, possibly Maynards best next to the lyrics of Lateralus (the whole album).

Mer De Mons is fantastic too. 3 Libras is a fave. But 13th Step is where they really stepped up and found their sound. Emotive was a good CD too. But not great. They really went for an ambient soundscape with Emotive. Passive woulda fit on 13th step.

Anyone heard their newest single. It's on the radio a lot. It's awesome. They'll probably do another album, of course after Tools next cd. I want another 13th Step.

[kirksnosehair]

I've never gotten around to checking this band out, but they've been on my "try this band" list for a while.  Tool is one of those 50/50 bands for me.  I really like about 1/2 of their songs, the rest I have no interest in hearing.  But when they're good, they're good.

I guess the consensus seems to be "13th Step"  Good starting point?  Yay or Nay?

[PixelDream]

Either Mer de Noms or Thirteenth Step. I think they're equally great and equally easy to get into.

[kirksnosehair]

Gotcha.  I'll put it on Mrs NoseHair's Christmas List 

[Super Dude]

I give a huge edge to Thirteenth Step, if only because I think APC does soft-ish tunes better than metal. If I want metal of a similar style, I'll go to Tool, not Mer De Noms.

We have a thread on DT-side about albums with atmosphere - well, 13th for me is the best album I own in terms of atmosphere. I stand by that statement.

[NotePad]

I would say check out 13th Step for you first APC album. Mer De Noms is really great too, but 13th Step is better. It's where they found their sound.

I love 13th Step's atmosphere. I also consider it to be at the top of the list of CDs I own when it comes to atmosphere. It's up there with White Pony (obviously very different, but has an overall feeling that will never be repeated).

But what do you guys think of Emotive? I think its a really cool, chill record. Very downbeat and ambient. They took the subtle, texturized and ambient elements they did on 13th Step and spread it throughout the whole album. Well, most of the songs. Some songs on Emotive were harder rock songs. But overall I love the feeling of it. A great covers album.

13th Step gives the best impression of who APC are. That should be the one you listen to first.

[ReaperKK]

Billy gives some great song by song commentary on the greatest hits cd that's out now. If you go on spotify you can check it out if you're curious.

[Zook]

This should have been the best of album (although I could do without the last two songs):

1. The Hollow
2. Magdalena
3. Rose
4. Judith
5. Orestes
6. 3 Libras
7. The Package
8. Weak and Powerless
9. The Noose
10. Blue
11. Vanishing
12. The Outsider
13. Pet
14. Gravity
15. Passive
16. By and Down

72:07

[Super Dude]

Blue is one of my all-time favorite songs, closely followed by Weak and Powerless. The entire first half of that album is fucking great.

[bout to crash]

I would say that 13th step is pretty solid with the exception of The Nurse who loved me.

YES.  The original, by Failure, is MUCH better than the APC cover.

No way! I love that one! I just listened to the original and meh.

Anyway, I never got into APC as much as Tool but I do enjoy them.

[NotePad]

Yea i heard about the commentary they did. I'm most interested in Maynards. Last time i looked i found one of his commentart tracks on Youtube for one of 13th steps songs, cant remember which. I'm really interested in listening to his commentary, consider....well, if you're a maynard fan, then you should understand why it would be great to hear. 13th Step dealt with some pretty heavy things lyrically i can tell. He wrote the lyrics around the theme of addiction. From what i'v heard it's not about any addictions he may have had, but based it on people he's known who have suffered substance abuse.

[Jaffa]

But what do you guys think of Emotive? I think its a really cool, chill record. Very downbeat and ambient. They took the subtle, texturized and ambient elements they did on 13th Step and spread it throughout the whole album. Well, most of the songs. Some songs on Emotive were harder rock songs. But overall I love the feeling of it. A great covers album.

I for one adore Emotive.  In fact, their version of Imagine was what caused me to start exploring APC in the first place.   

It's still probably my least favorite of their albums, but only because Mer De Noms and The Thirteenth Step are so brilliant.  Emotive is awesome in its own right. 

[bout to crash]

I really enjoy that one, too.