The Official 2013 NFL Thread

[snapple]

His AAV his ~20m. I'm not sure, but i think that's wwahat salary cap space is.

[Perpetual Change]

Well, Tebow's gone. Damn. I was starting to admire his dedication, and was imagining the Jets QB roster to look something like this:

1. David Garrard
2. Geno Smith
3. Tim Tebow

But I guess Woody's not given up on Sanchize yet.

[KevShmev]

The Jets and the media should both be ashamed at how they have basically killed Tebow's career.

The Jets clearly had no intention of ever giving him a shot to play, used him to sell tickets and merchandise, and now waited till the initial FA period and the draft were both over to release him.  Shameful.

The media has made it to where it is a circus wherever he goes now, and he is not worth the hassle.  Tebow has a unique skill set that could make him an asset, but that kind of circus isn't worth it for a guy who is essentially a role player. 

[Perpetual Change]

I would rather have Tebow play 3rd string QB on the Jets than Matt Simms or Greg McElroy, but you're wrong, for two reasons:

1. The dude got $4(?) million dollars for throwing 8 passes. Considering that's more than many people will ever make in their entire career, I find it hard feeling sorry for him. I'm sure he's laughing his way to the bank no matter what happens. There's really no shame in it. It's the NFL and it is what it is.

2. Tebow does have a unique skill set, but he does not want to use it. He refused to run wildcats when the Jets decided to start McElroy instead of him. He reportedly refused many opportunities to be traded because he didn't want to play TE, which is simply amazing, considering he tried it with the Jets and wound up getting hit with a Mark Sanchez pass in the back of the helmet.

OKAY WAIT, THREE POINTS

3. "The Jets" are in a transitory phase right now, even if they won't admit it. New GM, new OC, new DC, and 3 new QBs. Why? Because the last 4 years of NY Jets football has come to an end. Rex and his people are leaving, and fast. Idzik will continue to purge Rex's Jets team. I predict Garrard will start this year as long as he stays healthy, and by the end of the 2014 season, Rex Ryan, Santonio Holmes, and Mark Sanchez will no longer be Jets, and Marty Mornhingweg will be announced as HQ, and Geno Smith will take the reigns. Right now, the Jets are practically an expansion team.

Anyway, Tebow still has a career, in Canada or in the Arena league.

[KevShmev]

That's some nice NY Jets spin, but it doesn't wash, for several reasons:

-Tebow is not a wildcat player; he is a spread option QB.  It is not the same thing, and the fact that the media constantly talked about him being a possible wildcat option showed how clueless they were about him.

-The money is nice, sure, but Tebow does not strike me as a guy who is out for the money.  A guy with that much heart and those intangibles wants to play, and to end up on a team that clearly had no intention of letting him play had to be discouraging.  His refusal of certain types of plays late in the season came long after he realized how badly the team had screwed him over.

-Tebow is not a TE, so why would he want to play there?  How many other players his age are told, "Hey, even though you have played [insert position] your whole life, we are now gonna ask you to play a completely different one"?  It is ridiculous.

Again, I am not even saying that Tebow should be a starting QB, as his limitations make him hard to trust week to week (and the number of good rookie QBs there were in 2012 made the number of starting jobs available even smaller), but he wasn't even given a chance in NY.  I think that is all he wanted was a chance, and he was lied to and told he would have a chance, and he wasn't given one.

[yorost]

-Tebow is not a TE, so why would he want to play there?  How many other players his age are told, "Hey, even though you have played [insert position] your whole life, we are now gonna ask you to play a completely different one"?  It is ridiculous.

Ridiculous? While most players might not switch around, some do and are successful. Antwaan Randle El, Jason Peters...

[Perpetual Change]

That's not "NY Jets spin" Just 'cause I'm a Jets fan, doesn't mean I like everything they do. I actually just said I would have rather them kept Tim, so you can't just brush-off what I'm saying as "spin". Geez.

That's some nice NY Jets spin, but it doesn't wash, for several reasons:

-Tebow is not a wildcat player; he is a spread option QB.  It is not the same thing, and the fact that the media constantly talked about him being a possible wildcat option showed how clueless they were about him.

OK? He's still a bad QB, and a bad fit, as neither really worked well in the previous scheme. I don't see why this makes the Jets obligated to keep him.

-The money is nice, sure, but Tebow does not strike me as a guy who is out for the money.  A guy with that much heart and those intangibles wants to play, and to end up on a team that clearly had no intention of letting him play had to be discouraging.  His refusal of certain types of plays late in the season came long after he realized how badly the team had screwed him over.

Again, he ended up on the team because he CHOSE the team. He could have gone to his hometown. Instead he chose to go to the Jets, who were already known to have a circus locker room from 2011. And, by the way, do you think maybe--just maybe--him not starting as QB had something to do with him actually not being a good QB and stinking it up in practices? C'mon.

-Tebow is not a TE, so why would he want to play there?  How many other players his age are told, "Hey, even though you have played [insert position] your whole life, we are now gonna ask you to play a completely different one"?  It is ridiculous.

And yet plenty of players are asked to do the very same. Tim Tebow right now is very bad as an NFL QB. Everyone knew it'd be a total bust when the Broncos took him and I'm still surprised any team at all is still willing to take him in the QB capacity. In that regard, he oughtta be grateful to the Jets, and they probably cut him the last big check like that he's ever gonna get.

He wasn't even given a chance in NY.  I think that is all he wanted was a chance, and he was lied to and told he would have a chance, and he wasn't given one.

I'm not sure where these accusations of "lying" come in. He had a chance. He sucked in practice. He never got to start. There's really nowhere else to go with it. He gets his 4 mil out of the deal. No-one is really obligated to cry for him.

[KevShmev]

 , yorost.

When was Randle El anything other than a WR in the NFL?

Peters moved from tight end to offensive tackle, which was basically moving along the offensive line (since Peters was more of a blocking TE in college than a receiving one). 

Has any NFL QB, who had some success at the position, ever successfully moved to the TE position?

[Perpetual Change]

Has any NFL QB, who had some success at the position, ever successfully moved to the TE position?

lol

[KevShmev]

Going 7-4 as a starter, while putting up 18 total touchdowns and throwing only 6 INTs, and winning a playoff game by throwing for 316 yards against the best defense in the league is not some success?  Okay.

I know that Tebow is an awful practice player, and that is what kills his chances of being the starter anywhere.  But in the case of the Jets last year, Sanchez sucked it up early and often, and the season was still worth saving, but Ryan insisted on sticking with his shitty QB rather than giving a chance to a guy who, despite his shitty practice play, has shown that he can enter an NFL game and gets thing going.  Was it not worth a shot?
 

[King Postwhore]

And the money they gave to Sanchez was the only reason they kept him out there.  They knew before what they had with him and should of never given him that extension.  Kev is right, the way the jets season was going they shosuld have given him a shot.

[KevShmev]

Right, and I am not even sure it would have mattered, since the Jets didn't have as much talent around the QB position as the Broncos did in 2011, but it was still worth a shot, no?

[King Postwhore]

Oh yes!  It seemed like a PR move before the season and then it blew up in their face when they didn't use him.  When it was obvious to everyone they should have.

[yorost]

, yorost.

When was Randle El anything other than a WR in the NFL?

Peters moved from tight end to offensive tackle, which was basically moving along the offensive line (since Peters was more of a blocking TE in college than a receiving one). 

Has any NFL QB, who had some success at the position, ever successfully moved to the TE position?

...so if they moved Tebow to a TE in his first season it would have been ok, but now it is ridiculous? He's such a pure quarterback, I agree, it's crazy to think maybe he could try something else.

[Perpetual Change]

Going 7-4 as a starter, while putting up 18 total touchdowns and throwing only 6 INTs, and winning a playoff game by throwing for 316 yards against the best defense in the league is not some success?  Okay.

And, I guess those nice stats can make up for how he was completing way under 50 percent of his passes, and benefiting entirely from being on a team that was allowing 14 pts per game? (too bad that D was nowhere to be found this year )

Tebow might have potential, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the Jets (a team without one quality-proven QB and multiple similar holes elsewhere on the chart) should stomach the high-lost, long-term project that is developing Tim Tebow out of some kind of "shame obligation". They have neither the tools nor the cap space nor the interest to accomodate that kind of project.

But in the case of the Jets last year, Sanchez sucked it up early and often, and the season was still worth saving, but Ryan insisted on sticking with his shitty QB rather than giving a chance to a guy who, despite his shitty practice play, has shown that he can enter an NFL game and gets thing going.  Was it not worth a shot?

Well, a few things:

--I agree that Tebow should have gone in before McElroy. He was number 2 on the roster, so when Mark Sanchez finally got benched, it should have been Tebow going in. Problem is, Tebow had cracked ribs that day (somehow), and McElroy came in and scored a TD. Still, when McElroy went down, Tebow should have gone in INSTEAD of Sanchez going back in. But, by then, Tebow was already refusing to run plays, and stinking it up in practice. So Sanchez went back in. And when you're stuck paying a guy $8 mil next year no matter what happens, you've gotta be careful how soon you bench him, especially if you're gonna try and trade him.

--I know you hate acknowledging this, but Mark Sanchez HAS shown that he can enter an NFL game and get things going. This was by far his worst season ever, and last year wasn't much better, but he HAS competed effectively in both regular season and postseason games. That is a fact, despite NY media's "what have you done for me lately" attitude. One of the biggest problems I saw with Rex's coaching this year is that Rex would actually pull Sanchez mid-drive when things were finally getting going. Totally bizarre, and one of the many reasons why Rex should not be a Head Coach. I suspect that Mark could still be a good QB with some offensive depth and consistent coaching. But he just didn't get that and frankly the real shameful thing is how the Jets organization are choking Sanchez's development, not Tebow's.

[Big Hath]

[KevShmev]

...so if they moved Tebow to a TE in his first season it would have been ok, but now it is ridiculous? He's such a pure quarterback, I agree, it's crazy to think maybe he could try something else.

Is there any proof anywhere that Tebow can be a good blocker on the offensive line and/or that he can be a good pass catcher?

Going 7-4 as a starter, while putting up 18 total touchdowns and throwing only 6 INTs, and winning a playoff game by throwing for 316 yards against the best defense in the league is not some success?  Okay.

And, I guess those nice stats can make up for how he was completing way under 50 percent of his passes, and benefiting entirely from being on a team that was allowing 14 pts per game? (too bad that D was nowhere to be found this year )

    Ah, we can always count on Tebow critics to drag out the whole completion percentage stat.  Scoring touchdowns, not turning the ball over, making big plays at crucial times, helping his team win, etc....none of those things matter.  Completion percentage is all that matters!!!!!!

And let me remind you that while the defense was overlooked in a lot of those games (yes, they kept it close till Tebow could work his late game magic), they did win games by scores of 38-24, 35-32 and 29-23, so he was also winning some games where he had to put a lot of points on the board, not just lead one great drive at the end of the game.

Tebow might have potential, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the Jets (a team without one quality-proven QB and multiple similar holes elsewhere on the chart) should stomach the high-lost, long-term project that is developing Tim Tebow out of some kind of "shame obligation". They have neither the tools nor the cap space nor the interest to accomodate that kind of project.

 

Where did I say the Jets should keep Tebow and commit to him long term?  Oh, that's right: NOWHERE.  I merely said they should have at least given him a shot or two last season, considering how much Sanchez was shitting the bed.

--I know you hate acknowledging this, but Mark Sanchez HAS shown that he can enter an NFL game and get things going. This was by far his worst season ever, and last year wasn't much better, but he HAS competed effectively in both regular season and postseason games. That is a fact, despite NY media's "what have you done for me lately" attitude. One of the biggest problems I saw with Rex's coaching this year is that Rex would actually pull Sanchez mid-drive when things were finally getting going. Totally bizarre, and one of the many reasons why Rex should not be a Head Coach. I suspect that Mark could still be a good QB with some offensive depth and consistent coaching. But he just didn't get that and frankly the real shameful thing is how the Jets organization are choking Sanchez's development, not Tebow's.

Why would I hate acknowledging that?  I have nothing against Mark Sanchez.  I just recognize him for what he is: a below-average NFL QB who cannot do well unless he has a lot of help around him.  In other words, he does not make the players around him better (and that is in general, not meant to be a comparison to Tebow or anyone else).

But I agree that Rex Ryan should not be a head coach.  He is an awesome DC, but should not be a head coach.  Really, he has had one really good season in four in NY (getting to the playoffs and making the AFCCG was tainted in '09 by them only getting to the playoffs cause the Colts laid down for them in Week 16). 

[Perpetual Change]

You didn't say the Jets should keep Tim Tebow, you just kept going on about how "shameful" getting rid of him is.  I can't really see how it's anything but necessary, at this point.

Do you really think Tim Tebow is that good? I'll give you that he's OK in some clutch moments, but he's generally bad. And his mechanics are off. And he has a goofy throwing motion that he'll never correct, because he thinks he's good enough to start in the NFL.

Did Denver trading him bother you?

[cramx3]

It almost seems like the jets took one for the team by killing the tebow lovefest. He was at his all time high and tebow craze was nuts before he was traded to the jets. The jets then barely used him, while reapibg in the PR, then released himwhen his hype is at an all time low. If he was released last year, it would be headline 24/7 news. Now its just a press release and normal sports talk.

[KevShmev]

I said the timing was shameful.  They obviously had no intention of keeping him, but waiting till after the draft to do it will make it a lot more difficult for him to find a team.  It's the nature of the business, but it just capped off their shabby treatment of him.

No, I don't think Tebow is that good, and I NEVER said he was.  And even though some think he could get better at throwing the ball, I do not.  He has playing QB since he was like 7 (or something like that), and if he hasn't gotten any better by now, he isn't going to now.  I think he can be a good role player on a team out there, but the circus around him, mostly thanks to the media, might make it hard for any team to want to bother.

Why would the Broncos trading him have bothered me?  We had gotten Peyton freaking Manning!!!!  Trading him was common sense at that point.

[yorost]

...so if they moved Tebow to a TE in his first season it would have been ok, but now it is ridiculous? He's such a pure quarterback, I agree, it's crazy to think maybe he could try something else.

Is there any proof anywhere that Tebow can be a good blocker on the offensive line and/or that he can be a good pass catcher?

Did I say he would be good or that it would work? I just disagreed with 'ridiculous.' If a team is willing to take a shot at making him a TE I don't think it's a lost cause just because he's technically a quarterback.

[cramx3]

There isn't anything shameful about releasing him, its part of the business. Also, I don't think the jets thought geno was going to land in their hands, just kind of the way things went.

[KevShmev]

...so if they moved Tebow to a TE in his first season it would have been ok, but now it is ridiculous? He's such a pure quarterback, I agree, it's crazy to think maybe he could try something else.

Is there any proof anywhere that Tebow can be a good blocker on the offensive line and/or that he can be a good pass catcher?

Did I say he would be good or that it would work? I just disagreed with 'ridiculous.' If a team is willing to take a shot at making him a TE I don't think it's a lost cause just because he's technically a quarterback.

I suppose.  I will concede that "ridiculous" may not have been the best word for me to use, but we'll see.  I do think Tebow is not doing himself any favors by taking the "I only want to play quarterback" stance.  We'll see if that changes if he finds the market empty for a guy with his quarterback "skills" (quotes used for comedic effect).

[Perpetual Change]

Why would the Broncos trading him have bothered me?  We had gotten Peyton freaking Manning!!!!  Trading him was common sense at that point.

Exactly why I think he should have stayed. Riding the bench for two years while learning from Peyton Manning would have been just what Tim Tebow needed. Instead, he got traded to the Jets, who curb-stomped his development.

There isn't anything shameful about releasing him, its part of the business. Also, I don't think the jets thought geno was going to land in their hands, just kind of the way things went.

Agreed. I don't think he was planned at all. And honestly I didn't want the Jets to take him. But considering how far he slid, and dire the Jets QB situation is, they would have been idiots not to.

[KevShmev]

The Broncos didn't need that circus in town any longer.  Plus, I agree with those who said that Elway never really wanted Tebow to be his QB, so that gave him his out.  If he had kept him as the backup, and Peyton's neck problem flared back up, Elway would have been "stuck' with Tebow again.  Getting Peyton was the out Elway needed to get him out of town.

[Perpetual Change]

BTW, back to the draft... how did you like Denver's draft, Kev?

They seemed to have made some good long-term decisions, but not the type of decisions I'd expect from a team that's probably in "win now" mode until Peyton retires.

[KevShmev]

I liked their draft.  They made picks that will be good both for the now and for the future.  Besides, it is not like the team is far away from winning it all.  They went 13-3 last season and would have been hosting the AFCCG if not for a miracle bomb at the end of the 4th quarter, so some youth and better safety play in the clutch ( ) will only help.

[Rattlehead]

I thought their draft was pretty good as well, I'm really looking forward to seeing Sylvester Williams play, guy looks like a beast.

Did anyone see Mike Wallace's reaction to that guy in the NBA that came out of the closet? My god...  some of these guys should have to go through their agent or something to make a public statement like that  . I am embarrassed for him. 

[FlyingBIZKIT]

'twas nice seeing FSU have 11 players in the draft, most by any team. Go Noles! 

[KevShmev]

Did anyone see Mike Wallace's reaction to that guy in the NBA that came out of the closet? My god...  some of these guys should have to go through their agent or something to make a public statement like that  . I am embarrassed for him. 

I didn't think it was a big deal.  All he said was he didn't understand homosexuality.  Granted, he has been around long enough to know that people get so easily offended (selectively) nowadays, so it is better to not say anything at all, but I don't see how what he said was a big deal at all. 

[Rattlehead]

What he said wasn't really offensive, it was just flat out ignorant. Did you miss the part when he said "All these beautiful women in the world and guys wanna mess with other guys SMH..." Not only does he sound like an ignorant 12 year old, but the fact that he had to "tweet" that makes me pretty embarrassed for him.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I saw that, too.  That came off to me as your typical macho "Women are so awesome; why would a guy not want to be with them?" guy talk.  Ignorant, perhaps, but I think it comes more from him being a guy who probably really likes women. 

[Rattlehead]

Yeah, that's a good point  I'm sure he'll learn his lesson from this though.

[Perpetual Change]

These people who think gays can't be good athletes or less manly or something are ignorant as can be. Watch 300, and then afterwards, remind yourself how many of those ancient Greek dudes were swinging both ways.

[wkiml]

in regards to Tebow playing a position other than QB...its happened quite often...if he's such a "gifted " athlete than the change should be welcomed on his part ( I understand the desire to play QB, but the reality is if he truly just wants to play football than he needs to consider it)


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