Official Queensryche Thread - NEW ALBUM INFO. p. 30

[TAC]

Empire

or

Warning

That'd work for me. Empire would be great.

[bosk1]

Empire

Good, but "Empire" is such a general terms that it wouldn't necessarily create the immediate recognition that it is associated with Queensryche.  If I know nothing about the band and see "Empire" on a bill, I'm not automatically going to make a Queensryche connection.  Operation: Mindcrime immediately and unequivocally takes my mind in a Queensyrche direction.

The Warning

Better, but still a bit too general.  And less well-known than Mindcrime.

[TAC]

Operation Mindcrime just seems too obvious/ cheesy. I don't know why I feel that way, but I do.

[Implode]

Queensryche.

No umlaute. Or just put another symbol over the y.

[Nick]

Operation: Queensryche

or

Operation: Queensryche II: Scenes from a Winery

[bosk1]

[jammindude]

Sorry bosk.   I like it for an album title...and it is unequivocally associated with QR...   But it's a *terrible* band name...IMO.

[Orbert]

Empire was their biggest, most successful album, wasn't it?  I would go with that for the new name, if you're looking for the same type of name association as Heaven and Hell had with Black Sabbath.

Yeah, it's a pretty generic term, but in this day and age, it's pretty much a given that word will get out.  Rising West was cool, but too obscure.  Everybody, even casual fans or those who only knew the hit "Silent Lucidity", has heard of Empire.  Short and simple.

[TAC]

Plus Empire just sounds more "regal"

[Orbert]

I never thought of that, but that's something of a connection as well.  The monarchy association.

[Metro]

"Violent Lucidity"

[DebraKadabra]

Kingsryche.

[LCArenas]

Queensręche.


I just read the RS article, damn, just when I thought Tate couldn't be more delusional.

[MykeHavoc]

...people seem to be overlooking the most obvious "Sounds like a band" album name: Rage for Order

[contest_sanity]

if you drop the "Operation," Mindcrime is a pretty cool band name IMO.

[jjrock88]

I really like both of the above mentioned names; rage for order and Mindcrime. But I do hope for little drama and hope the band can continue as Queensryche without any issue and Tate works as a solo artist.

[Zydar]

Promised Band

[DebraKadabra]

 

[Kwyjibo]

I read that article yesterday.  It seemed to get more and more ridiculous as it went on and it became clear that he's just not living in reality.

But "I write 81% of the music and the lyrics" made me laugh because no one says that.  Eighty-one percent?  People say they write most of it, or 90% of it or something like that.  The only way he could've gotten 81% is if he actually sat and did the math.  And of course the next line is "Of the 144 songs that Queensryche has released, I've written 116 of those."  He actually sat and did the math.  That's just not normal.

Yeah that struck me as weird also. He clearly did the maths before the interview otherwise he couldn't have came up with exact figures.

I think that this is his strategy to proof that HE is Queensryche and not the rest, as false as his statements may be.

Imagine the following converation:

Tate: I wrote 116 out of 144 songs therefore I am Queensryche.

Wilton: No you didn't write them, you just contributed to them!

Tate: OK, let me put it this way, I contributed to 116 out of 144 songs, therefore I am Queensryche. And while we're at it: How many songs did you write? 

Wilton:  I think I wrote about 30 to 40.

Tate: Okay, I see, and you wrote them all for yourself and didn't have any help? 

Wilton:  Alright I wrote some of them myself but the majority I co-wrote with someone else.

Tate: So in other words you contributed to maybe 40 songs. Let me remind you that my last count for myself was 116 and that is more than 40, isn't it?  Therefore I am Queensryche 

Wilton:  But Chris wrote the majority of our songs back when we were good and successful 

Tate: Yeah he wrote some and to most of them I contributed essential parts. Anyway Chris is out of the equation, this is between you and me. And the result is 116 beats 40 for the reason of 116 being roughly three times more than 40. I rest my case. 

Wilton: 

The moral of it all: Tainters are gonna taint.

[PortnoyPetrucciMyung]

I am not confident that rising west will be good... the fact is, these guys have been in agreement with Tate every step of the way.

Its easy to throw him under the bus now that QR are in the lowest place they could be but the fact is these guys never have uttered a single complaint until now. Sorry but I have no faith in either party here.

[Orbert]

Do you know for a fact that the guys have been in agreement, or are you assuming from their silence that they all agreed with the direction Tate was taking them?

The rest of DT kept quiet while Mike was making decisions they didn't agree with, and it's pretty clear now that that was the case.  But at the time, they kept quiet for the sake of band unity.  The vibe I'm getting from the Queensryche deal is that they finally had enough, not that they suddenly all decided to fire him for no reason, which is Tate's version of events.

[Cool Chris]

I am not confident that rising west will be good...

They were pretty damn good when I saw them play a couple weeks ago. Granted that was a set of classic QR stuff in front of a couple hundred people, which speaks little to how good any new material will be. But they looked nothing like a band going through the motions, or one at the tail end of their careers. Parker and Todd had a big hand in their stage presence.

[Nick]

I am not confident that rising west will be good... the fact is, these guys have been in agreement with Tate every step of the way.

Its easy to throw him under the bus now that QR are in the lowest place they could be but the fact is these guys never have uttered a single complaint until now. Sorry but I have no faith in either party here.

So in other words you're just taking the words of a habitual liar at face value?

I mean, I have my doubts on how good Queensryche 2.0 will be, but you seem to be siding with the same guy that said Operation: Mindcrime II was a grand plan dating back to the original album...

[MykeHavoc]

Over at the Breakdown Room, I posted a more accurate math equation. Geoff contributed about 33% of the overall QR catalog. So he's taking credit for nearly half the music written that he had nothing to do with.

[Orbert]

How did that work?  Did Geoff exaggerate on the number of songs he actually has credits on?

[Nick]

Tate has a credit on 81% of the songs, however most of those credits are simply for lyrics. Well that's important, there's a big difference between saying I contributed lyrics to 81% of our songs, and saying I wrote 81% of our songs. And I can already assure you that when it comes down to it Tate will try taking a lot of credit that deservedly goes to guys like Slater and Gray who actually wrote the music.

[Orbert]

Oh yeah, I get that.  I was just wondering how MykeHavoc decided that the correct figure is more like 33%.

[LCArenas]

If I was Tate I wouldn't be proud in having written/contributed in the majority of Post-DeGarmo songs

[bosk1]

Over at the Breakdown Room, I posted a more accurate math equation. Geoff contributed about 33% of the overall QR catalog. So he's taking credit for nearly half the music written that he had nothing to do with.

Myke, just an FYI, not everyone here may have access to Breakdown Room.  It's a great site, and I refer people there regularly and strongly encourage anyone who is a fan of Queensryche to check it out.  But there may be some users here who are blocked from that site for one reason or another, so a re-post here might be better than just referring to a post there.

[bosk1]

Oh yeah, I get that.  I was just wondering how MykeHavoc decided that the correct figure is more like 33%.

Basically, by factoring in who else received writing credit and then weighting that number.  Basically, there are two different types of percentages being talked about:  (1) Percentage of total songs on which Geoff (or anyone else) receive any writing credit; and (2) Percentage of the total writing credit given out.  The former is simply taking the total number of QR songs and diving that by the number of songs a particular writer appeared on, whether as the sole writer or a co-writer.  The latter is the percentage of writing credit the writer gets relative to other songwriters.  Geoff is talking about the former, but there are two problems with what he said.

First, the way he says he "wrote" the songs is dishonest.  He has never written a song by himself.  Ever.  He co-wrote the songs.  And he is deliberately confusing the issue to make it look like he and he along was responsible for the vast majority of the band's output, which is simply not true.

Second, he is implying that he is talking about the second type of percentage when he is only talking about the first.  The second is the more relevant.  If Geoff wrote 81% of the songs (which he didn't, but anyway), he is implying that he should have 81% of the writing credit, which simply is not true by any stretch.  That would imply that everyone else who has ever written a QR song combined can only have a total of 19% between them all.  In reality, when you add up the number of writers and the number of songs and do the correct math (which Myke did an approximation of), the real number is about 33% (actually, I believe it is even less that that, but that is at least closer to the truth than 81%). 

[Orbert]

Got it.  Thanks!

And now just to throw this out there: co-writing when all parties contribute both music and lyrics is usually different from co-writing where one person writes the lyrics and someone else does the music.  In the first kind, everybody involved usually recognizes that it was a collaborative endeavor.  If Geoff Tate wrote all the lyrics to the songs that he has credit on, then there's no doubt in my mind that to him, he "wrote" the songs.

Yeah, he's using weird math, and is probably delusional anyway, but I don't think he's intentionally being dishonest.  As far as he's concerned, he wrote 81% of the songs.  He wrote the words, he sings them, in his mind he wrote the songs.

[Pelata]

I am torn. I'm a huge Queensryche fan...even of some of their lesser appreciated material. On one hand they'll bring back some Metal into the sound, on the other I don't know if I can get into it w/o Tate. LaTorre will basically be imitating Tate. Tate was original and passionate...LaTorre is neither, but he is good at what he does on a technical level.

Its like Arnel in Journey...there's something there I don't like that I can't put my finger on despite the obvious talent.

[Ben_Jamin]

I am torn. I'm a huge Queensryche fan...even of some of their lesser appreciated material. On one hand they'll bring back some Metal into the sound, on the other I don't know if I can get into it w/o Tate. LaTorre will basically be imitating Tate. Tate was original and passionate...LaTorre is neither, but he is good at what he does on a technical level.

Its like Arnel in Journey...there's something there I don't like that I can't put my finger on despite the obvious talent.

I'm the same way. But if their new stuff is similar to Tribe, specifically Open, Blood, and Great Divide, I'd check it out since the guys have credits in those songs.

[Pelata]

I am torn. I'm a huge Queensryche fan...even of some of their lesser appreciated material. On one hand they'll bring back some Metal into the sound, on the other I don't know if I can get into it w/o Tate. LaTorre will basically be imitating Tate. Tate was original and passionate...LaTorre is neither, but he is good at what he does on a technical level.

Its like Arnel in Journey...there's something there I don't like that I can't put my finger on despite the obvious talent.

I'm the same way. But if their new stuff is similar to Tribe, specifically Open, Blood, and Great Divide, I'd check it out since the guys have credits in those songs.

I'm just hoping it's not loaded down with Wilton's more Metal riffs just for the sake of it though...

[Zook]

I am not confident that rising west will be good... the fact is, these guys have been in agreement with Tate every step of the way.

Its easy to throw him under the bus now that QR are in the lowest place they could be but the fact is these guys never have uttered a single complaint until now. Sorry but I have no faith in either party here.

So in other words you're just taking the words of a habitual liar at face value?

I mean, I have my doubts on how good Queensryche 2.0 will be, but you seem to be siding with the same guy that said Operation: Mindcrime II was a grand plan dating back to the original album...

He probably thought for a minute that a sequel could be cool and then went about his daily life of checking himself out in the mirror.