How do ADOE' similarities to IAW impact your enjoyment of ADTOE?

[Zook]

I can't listen to Angels and Forgotten and BAI without thinking of PMU and UAGM and LtL so it can be a bit distracting. BAI is great though while the other two are just OK.

[GasparXR]

Nope, they don't bother me. I do find a lot of similarities between LNF and UAGM especially, but it's actually rather clever.

I agree, they do have some similarities, but the way the structure is copied is clever and results in a song with a different vibe. LNF is heavier and a little darker than UAGM, feels more like an Eastern vibe ala Home and much of ADTOE, as well as being more technical, whereas UAGM is more uplifting and catchy in that I&W way.

[Kotowboy]

This is like your wife reminding you that you cheated on her 30 years ago.

Ah so YOU'RE MP. . .

Really, let it die. Nobody gives a crap.

Maybe not ! 

[ResultsMayVary]

Don't even notice. It's like being pissed off that a song on the radio has four chords in a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, interlude, chorus layout. DT have reused plenty of structures in the past, doesn't make the songs interchangable or any less valid or anything like that.

Only bits that ever ring out to me are how the start of LNF has a UAGMmy riff, and how Breaking All Illusions is sort of an expy of Learning to Live. Went for "doesn't affect my enjoyment at all," but I could admittedly have gone for "barely" on a slightly worse day.

I can't even fathom how a callback to the cornerstone of the band's legacy, especially such a subtle one, would ever register higher than "barely."

Bam.

/thread

[snapple]

Thiago pls go

[LKap13]

Sorry to go off track here, but I'm curious, what was the story behind Thiago getting booted from this forum? Was it for making the claim that the band used I&W as a template for the new album or was there something else going on?

And as for the question: I do notice the similarities. They are pretty obvious, especially after reading Thiago's section by section analysis. (Indeed I remember postulating that the new album was going to be an Images pt. 2 since it initially had 8 songs on it, among other things. Don't forget that the 9th song, Beneath the Surface, was written by JP a bit after the other songs, and it was his decision to include it on the album post hoc).
That being said, I can't say the template approach takes away from my enjoyment of the album, mainly because the melodies are entirely different. If anything, it's really cool to ask, "what would Images & Words sound like if it were written in 2011?" and actually have it answered. The band did us a huge favor in writing the ADTOE with the I&W skeleton because a question such as the bolded one is so frequently asked by fans, but almost never answered.
It's also encouraging that the band actually sat down and (presumably) decided to change the direction of their writing back to their roots. This was their way of going back to the progressive mindset; if you ask me, they didn't quite get up to the level of Images, but they were closer than BCSL, and DT12** might get us even closer.

Lkap13

[theseoafs]

I think the similarities have been quite overblown, and the few legit comparisons don't affect my enjoyment of the album at all.
I'm not a big fan of the album anyway, so any IaW comparisons are the least of ADTOE's problems.

Exactly this.  There are maybe a couple actual similarities between the two albums -- the introductions of LNF and UAGM and the WFS/LTL/FFH/BAI stuff (though DT does a ballad before an epic which reprises its themes really often anyway, so it doesn't really matter at all).

[BlobVanDam]

Sorry to go off track here, but I'm curious, what was the story behind Thiago getting booted from this forum? Was it for making the claim that the band used I&W as a template for the new album or was there something else going on?

He didn't get banned for making the claim (heck, DTF loves a good conspiracy theory / nugget), but I recall he was very adamant about being right, and was pretty pushy with anyone who didn't agree with him, to the point where you just couldn't discuss the topic reasonably with him.

[GasparXR]

Sorry to go off track here, but I'm curious, what was the story behind Thiago getting booted from this forum? Was it for making the claim that the band used I&W as a template for the new album or was there something else going on?

He didn't get banned for making the claim (heck, DTF loves a good conspiracy theory / nugget), but I recall he was very adamant about being right, and was pretty pushy with anyone who didn't agree with him, to the point where you just couldn't discuss the topic reasonably with him.

I wonder what would happen if he told you TGP was bad.

[?]

I definitely see the similarities, but I don't mind them. If they were more blatant (like if there was a sax solo in This is the Life), then they might bother me, but they're only recycling structures (and even those have been varied from the original songs), not melodies or riffs. ADTOE has aged really well and it's still up there among my 3 or 4 favorite DT albums - it's so varied and there's no filler at all (yes, I even like BMUBMD). That said, I have a feeling the next album will be even better: ADTOE proved that they still sound like DT and do more than well without MP, and this time they have Mangini with them in the writing process, so I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

[MoraWintersoul]

I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

Or, you know, with Awake as a preset guideline

[SystematicThought]

If Thiago had never come around pushing his theories, I would never have noticed any similarities...

[?]

I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

Or, you know, with Awake as a preset guideline

If the first single from the new album will be a crushing 7-string song with silly lyrics and the album itself starts with a groovy drum intro, then I'll start to have my suspicions...

EDIT: You tell me about all the finest wines
But the pipe is just enough for me

YOU CAN TELL MAH BRUTHA I SAID SO

[MoraWintersoul]

I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

Or, you know, with Awake as a preset guideline

If the first single from the new album will be a crushing 7-string song with silly lyrics and the album itself starts with a groovy drum intro, then I'll start to have my suspicions...

EDIT: You tell me about all the finest wines
But the pipe is just enough for me

YOU CAN TELL MAH BRUTHA I SAID SO

Or, to combine your DT12 tracklist proposition and Ivan's changed lyric proposition, the opening song 5:00 will be a saga of pirate LaBrie kicked out from his ship by a siren.
The siren swims on to the deck and James LaBrie flies out the windoooooow.

[Ruba]

The third. I don't really care about it.

[Zydar]

I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

Or, you know, with Awake as a preset guideline

If the first single from the new album will be a crushing 7-string song with silly lyrics and the album itself starts with a groovy drum intro, then I'll start to have my suspicions...

EDIT: You tell me about all the finest wines
But the pipe is just enough for me

YOU CAN TELL MAH BRUTHA I SAID SO

Or, to combine your DT12 tracklist proposition and Ivan's changed lyric proposition, the opening song 5:00 will be a saga of pirate LaBrie kicked out from his ship by a siren.
The siren swims on to the deck and James LaBrie flies out the windoooooow.

And then LaBrie gets caught in a whaaaaale.

[?]

And then LaBrie gets caught in a whaaaaale.

He'll surrender tuna sea crap - WHAAAALE!

I love misheard lyrics

[IdoSC]

My typical reaction to this subject: oh no, some people out there in the interwebz believe that one of my all-time favorite albums borrows elements from another all-time favorite album, what am I going to do?!

[MoraWintersoul]

I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

Or, you know, with Awake as a preset guideline

If the first single from the new album will be a crushing 7-string song with silly lyrics and the album itself starts with a groovy drum intro, then I'll start to have my suspicions...

EDIT: You tell me about all the finest wines
But the pipe is just enough for me

YOU CAN TELL MAH BRUTHA I SAID SO

Or, to combine your DT12 tracklist proposition and Ivan's changed lyric proposition, the opening song 5:00 will be a saga of pirate LaBrie kicked out from his ship by a siren.
The siren swims on to the deck and James LaBrie flies out the windoooooow.

And then LaBrie gets caught in a whaaaaale.

I think we may have written the beginnings of a concept album here.

[Zydar]

I think we may have written the beginnings of a concept album here.

A Whale

1. 5:00
2. Caught In A Whale
3. Innocence Bathed
4. Aquamania
5. Voices (From Sirens)
6. The Swimming Man
7. The Mire
8. Life
9. Lifting Survivors On A Boat
10. Scared (Of The Water)
11. Space-Dye Life Vest

[MoraWintersoul]

I think we may have written the beginnings of a concept album here.

A Whale

1. 5:00
2. Caught In A Whale
3. Innocence Bathed
4. Aquamania
5. Voices (From Sirens)
6. The Swimming Man
7. The Mire
8. Life
9. Lifting Survivors On A Boat
10. Scared (Of The Water)
11. Space-Dye Life Vest

I expected nothing less of you

[Scorpion]

The twist: it's actually a concept album based on Batman.

[MoraWintersoul]

The twist: it's actually a concept album based on Batman.

Kevin Moore is a keyboardist Dream Theater deserves, but not the one that they need right now. More likely otherwise though. Or for complete '94ness, Jordan Rudess

[?]

A Whale

1. 5:00
2. Caught In A Whale
3. Innocence Bathed
4. Aquamania
5. Voices (From Sirens)
6. The Swimming Man
7. The Mire
8. Life
9. Lifting Survivors On A Boat
10. Scared (Of The Water)
11. Space-Dye Life Vest

Damn, this is so much better than my When Cream and Cake Unite tracklisting!

[Scorpion]

Shit, I voted the wrong option. Wanted to vote for the first one, actually, but voted for the last. Oh well.

[Another_Won]

I definitely see the similarities, but I don't mind them. If they were more blatant (like if there was a sax solo in This is the Life), then they might bother me, but they're only recycling structures (and even those have been varied from the original songs), not melodies or riffs. ADTOE has aged really well and it's still up there among my 3 or 4 favorite DT albums - it's so varied and there's no filler at all (yes, I even like BMUBMD). That said, I have a feeling the next album will be even better: ADTOE proved that they still sound like DT and do more than well without MP, and this time they have Mangini with them in the writing process, so I can't wait to see what they can do without any preset guidelines for songs.

THIS!  Even the part about BMUBMD - I guess that makes two of us that like it

There should be an option for enhancing our enjoyment.  I like the idea of it.  Also, it was fun to compare the tracks.  It's like a bonus feature.

[Orthogonal]

Not this again... I remember being in the thick of it when Thiago first graced us with this idea. This whole conversation is mostly a useless exercise and will go no where.

Those who do see the structural similarities (me and a few others) between many songs actually enjoy and admire it but were unable to actually have a positive discussion about it because  those who don't see the structural similarities usually didn't understand what we were talking about in the first place because they confused song arrangements, style and theme for song structure. They would continually interject our discussions and it degenerated into bickering and some name calling. I think more than just Thiago was banned in that thread...

[KevShmev]

Yeah, how could all of us not see that Build Me Up, Break Me Down was a carbon copy of Surrounded?

[Orthogonal]

Lol, I don't know if Thiago was serious about that one, but not even he made a serious argument for it, just a passing comment.

If I recall off the top of my head, from our very long thread, only 3 or 4 songs were determined to have very strong structural similarities to I&W counterparts. Another 2 songs initially thought to be similar ended up not being close at all, with the rest being completely original song structures.

[Cable]

Nope, they don't bother me. I do find a lot of similarities between LNF and UAGM especially, but it's actually rather clever.

Thank you. I was slammed when I said the LNF "tickle section" has a similar feel to the dissonant unison part before the verse riffs in UAGM. yes, the overall sound with regard to notes and melodies is different. LNF is the track with the most similar structural sections. Even JPs solo is similar to UAGM style with various techniques in order, like the flutter and and tapping.

That said, the structures impact my listening just a little. LNF is actually it, and UAGM is my least favorite I&W track anyway. But LNF is growing a bit.

[Ben_Jamin]

The only similarity that i really noticed was jp's LNF solo. The Metropolis wnd Outcry structure similarity is great

[Orthogonal]

Thank you. I was slammed when I said the LNF "tickle section" has a similar feel to the dissonant unison part before the verse riffs in UAGM. yes, the overall sound with regard to notes and melodies is different. LNF is the track with the most similar structural sections. Even JPs solo is similar to UAGM style with various techniques in order, like the flutter and and tapping.

That said, the structures impact my listening just a little. LNF is actually it, and UAGM is my least favorite I&W track anyway. But LNF is growing a bit.

Yes exactly, so many folks continue to think the discussion about similarities is about melodies, riffs, chords etc... The similarities have nothing to do with the actual notes being played, simply the layout of the sections in each song. Other similiarities like the techniques JP used in solo's weren't even a part of the discussion, but they are still other extra goodies that kind of link it to I&W.

[Octavaripolis]

It really doesn't bother me at all. I assume you guys know those short making of-documentaries for SDOIT and SFAM recorded at BearTracks? In both of them Mike Portnoy shows a line of cd's he truthfully enough calls the inspiration corner. Dream Theater didn't copy Images & Words, but they might've used it in the same way that they used some of the cd's in the inspiration corner back then.

[Chino]

I really enjoy the similarities, and I think that's why I enjoy the album as much as I do.

[rumborak]

It's the first DT album in quite some time that doesn't punch you with a fist in your face that says "we listened to this album when we wrote ours!!". So yeah, whatever similarities to IAW are there, they are the good kind, not the bad kind.