Author Topic: How do ADOE' similarities to IAW impact your enjoyment of ADTOE? (Read 8512 times)

TheOutlawXanadu · « **on:** February 10, 2013, 11:01:12 AM »

It's well documented that there are similarities between ADTOE and IAW. Whether it's the structures of PMU and OTBOA, the instrumental sections in Metropolis and Outcry, or the Part A and B set-up of WFS/LTL and FFH/BAI, few will argue that something's not going on here.

My question to the forum is: How much do these similarities matter? In my opinion, they're definitely noticeable and they hurt the album's character a bit, but I really don't care that much. I'm going with "The similarities affect my enjoyment a bit, but barely".

robwebster · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:04:38 AM »

Don't even notice. It's like being pissed off that a song on the radio has four chords in a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, interlude, chorus layout. DT have reused plenty of structures in the past, doesn't make the songs interchangable or any less valid or anything like that.

Only bits that ever ring out to me are how the start of LNF has a UAGMmy riff, and how Breaking All Illusions is sort of an expy of Learning to Live. Went for "doesn't affect my enjoyment at all," but I could admittedly have gone for "barely" on a slightly worse day.

I can't even fathom how a callback to the cornerstone of the band's legacy, especially such a subtle one, would ever register higher than "barely."

Lolzeez · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:06:22 AM »

I&W is awesome.
ADTOE is awesome.

Why should that impact my enjoyment?!?!?!

Zydar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:07:40 AM »

I don't hear the similarities that people are talking about, so it obviously doesn't bother me.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:09:00 AM »

I think the similarities have been quite overblown, and the few legit comparisons don't affect my enjoyment of the album at all.
I'm not a big fan of the album anyway, so any IaW comparisons are the least of ADTOE's problems.

sfam2112 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:10:37 AM »

A non-issue for me.

nikatapi · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:19:57 AM »

My enjoyment is more affected by the production than the songs.
I don't mind the similarities if the songs are good, which in this case they are.

MoraWintersoul · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:24:06 AM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2013, 11:09:00 AM

I think the similarities have been quite overblown, and the few legit comparisons don't affect my enjoyment of the album at all.
I'm not a big fan of the album anyway, so any IaW comparisons are the least of ADTOE's problems.

Milena QFT's Blob.

cyberdrummer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:32:31 AM »

It does affect my enjoyment, but in a positive way. I especially love the little throwback to the UAGM solos in LNF.

KevShmev · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:36:37 AM »

There are barely any similarities (the Under a Glass Moon/Lost Not Forgotten intros being the only obvious one), and they don't bother me at all.

SeRoX · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:58:04 AM »

I don't think it's even worth enough to talk about similarities. Because they are mostly minimal and unintentional. UGAM and LNF intros and PMU and OTBOA structure similarity which barely kill their own originality do not bother me.

RaiseTheKnife · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:13:23 PM »

I would have voted "The similarities increase my enjoyment". I maintain that it was a truly progressive concept to use I&W as a backbone for writing a new album.

me7 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:15:06 PM »

Quote from: nikatapi on February 10, 2013, 11:19:57 AM

My enjoyment is more affected by the production than the songs.
I don't mind the similarities if the songs are good, which in this case they are.

Same here. The structural similarities don't bother me at all since the melodies and rhythms are different (and good!) enough to make the whole album feel fresh. The only blatant melodic and rhythmic similarities I can think of right now are the intro of OTBOA and the guitar solo in LNF, and they feel more like a nod to IAW rather than stealing.
I see it like a funny "nugget" that actually makes me enjoy the album even more.

...and I wish that they had copied the production from IAW as well, that album sounds so much more alive than ADTOE.

orcus116 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:21:26 PM »

Quote from: Zydar on February 10, 2013, 11:07:40 AM

I don't hear the similarities that people are talking about, so it obviously doesn't bother me.

Pretty much this. They're two very different sounding albums to me so they're not comparable.

robwebster · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:30:47 PM »

Quote from: RaiseTheKnife on February 10, 2013, 12:13:23 PM

I would have voted "The similarities increase my enjoyment". I maintain that it was a truly progressive concept to use I&W as a backbone for writing a new album.

Frankly, lifting a structure is probably the most original and least obtrusive way anyone could hope to reference another album.

It's not like it's Images and Words part 2, it's not like they're aiming for the sound of Images and Words. It's not lifting melodies, it's not like they've copied themes, or cut down on the amount of work they have to do. They still had to write a whole album of music from scratch. Just that they happened to have a framework in place. OtBoA might have the same form as Pull Me Under, but so do lots of songs. I bet you could find forty that match A Rite of Passage, doesn't mean it's a rip-off. How often do people write songs in shapes that are genuinely brand new?

I get more antsy about a few seconds of Lost Not Forgotten and the "general vibe" of Breaking All Illusions (and how wooly is that, as a complaint?!) than I ever could about eight songs worth of familiar structures. It's music. Shapes and patterns are always going to repeat. The industry thrives on it. A Dramatic Turn of Events' only crime is embracing it! That's not a crime, it's not a rehash, the music's usually completely different - that's just clever.

KevShmev · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:34:14 PM »

Exactly, rob!

In the case of Pull Me Under and On the Backs of Angels, those sound like two completely different songs, so I just laugh when someone implies that the latter is a copycat of the former.

Madman Shepherd · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:47:31 PM »

Quote from: robwebster on February 10, 2013, 11:04:38 AM

Don't even notice. It's like being pissed off that a song on the radio has four chords in a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, interlude, chorus layout. DT have reused plenty of structures in the past, doesn't make the songs interchangable or any less valid or anything like that.

Only bits that ever ring out to me are how the start of LNF has a UAGMmy riff, and how Breaking All Illusions is sort of an expy of Learning to Live. Went for "doesn't affect my enjoyment at all," but I could admittedly have gone for "barely" on a slightly worse day.

I can't even fathom how a callback to the cornerstone of the band's legacy, especially such a subtle one, would ever register higher than "barely."

This

Quote from: SeRoX on February 10, 2013, 11:58:04 AM

I don't think it's even worth enough to talk about similarities. Because they are mostly minimal and unintentional. UGAM and LNF intros and PMU and OTBOA structure similarity which barely kill their own originality do not bother me.

Also this.

ariich · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:52:57 PM »

Quote from: robwebster on February 10, 2013, 11:04:38 AM

Don't even notice. It's like being pissed off that a song on the radio has four chords in a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, interlude, chorus layout. DT have reused plenty of structures in the past, doesn't make the songs interchangable or any less valid or anything like that.

Only bits that ever ring out to me are how the start of LNF has a UAGMmy riff, and how Breaking All Illusions is sort of an expy of Learning to Live. Went for "doesn't affect my enjoyment at all," but I could admittedly have gone for "barely" on a slightly worse day.

I can't even fathom how a callback to the cornerstone of the band's legacy, especially such a subtle one, would ever register higher than "barely."

I like it when you post my exact thoughts, because it saves me the effort of having to write them down myself!

The Letter M · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:05:05 PM »

What Rob said - the songs on ADTOE are only as similar to IAW as one human is similar to another human - there may be all the same limbs and organs and body parts, but the composition itself is different.

As for the similarities that exist, either in form or structure, I think they're neat, and it really only enhances a great album even more. For being an album with a new line-up, it's definitely right up there for me. Then again, albums with new line-ups tend to have a lot of great songs - IAW, FII, SFAM, and now ADTOE. Great music, great production, and an over-all sense of "here's all we've got!", but not really in the sense that they've got to go out and prove themselves again with ADTOE, but because they want to reassure us that they are still DT.

On a related note, the 2nd album by a "new" line-up produced some even GREATER (albeit more fan-splitting) albums: Awake and SDOIT. So I wonder if DT12 will become as polarizing as those albums have become in the fanbase?

-Marc.

wolfking · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:14:01 PM »

Never was a huge fan of the album anyway, so I don't really care.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2013, 11:09:00 AM

I think the similarities have been quite overblown, and the few legit comparisons don't affect my enjoyment of the album at all.

This, and what rob said.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:36:48 PM »

There are none.

TheOutlawXanadu · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:02:04 PM »

I think it's really interesting how so many of you don't think there are real similarities between the two.

johncal · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:03:37 PM »

This is like your wife reminding you that you cheated on her 30 years ago. Really, let it die. Nobody gives a crap.

senecadawg2 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:10:07 PM »

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on February 10, 2013, 01:26:48 PM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on February 10, 2013, 11:09:00 AM
I think the similarities have been quite overblown, and the few legit comparisons don't affect my enjoyment of the album at all.
This, and what rob said.

Yes

Quote from: johncal on February 10, 2013, 02:03:37 PM

This is like your wife reminding you that you cheated on her 30 years ago.

And really?

Marion Crane · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:12:46 PM »

To be 100% honest, the first time I heard OTBOA, the PMU similarities were pretty evident and a little distracting. Since I've heard the song about 300 times now, I've grown to just ignore them.

ariich · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:14:10 PM »

Quote from: TheOutlawXanadu on February 10, 2013, 02:02:04 PM

I think it's really interesting how so many of you don't think there are real similarities between the two.

I'd hardly call 7 people "so many".

The Letter M · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:14:54 PM »

Images And Words - 3 Words, 5 Syllables; 3 + 5 = 8
A Dramatic Turn Of Events - 5 Words, 8 Syllables

Similarities

-Marc.

GasparXR · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:27:03 PM »

Quote from: robwebster on February 10, 2013, 12:30:47 PM

Quote from: RaiseTheKnife on February 10, 2013, 12:13:23 PM
I would have voted "The similarities increase my enjoyment". I maintain that it was a truly progressive concept to use I&W as a backbone for writing a new album.
Frankly, lifting a structure is probably the most original and least obtrusive way anyone could hope to reference another album.

It's not like it's Images and Words part 2, it's not like they're aiming for the sound of Images and Words. It's not lifting melodies, it's not like they've copied themes, or cut down on the amount of work they have to do. They still had to write a whole album of music from scratch. Just that they happened to have a framework in place. OtBoA might have the same form as Pull Me Under, but so do lots of songs. I bet you could find forty that match A Rite of Passage, doesn't mean it's a rip-off. How often do people write songs in shapes that are genuinely brand new?

I get more antsy about a few seconds of Lost Not Forgotten and the "general vibe" of Breaking All Illusions (and how wooly is that, as a complaint?!) than I ever could about eight songs worth of familiar structures. It's music. Shapes and patterns are always going to repeat. The industry thrives on it. A Dramatic Turn of Events' only crime is embracing it! That's not a crime, it's not a rehash, the music's usually completely different - that's just clever.

Indeedles! My thoughts in rob form.

TheOutlawXanadu · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:45:36 PM »

Quote from: ariich on February 10, 2013, 02:14:10 PM

Quote from: TheOutlawXanadu on February 10, 2013, 02:02:04 PM
I think it's really interesting how so many of you don't think there are real similarities between the two.
I'd hardly call 7 people "so many".

I was expecting zero dude.

Jaq · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:08:20 PM »

I never saw the similarities that were so painstaking and hilariously outlined...oh fuck this, the biggest proponent of the theory said that BMUBMD=Surrounded, why is this even still a thing?

JayOctavarium · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:23:28 PM »

PMU / OTBOA Both have the same structure and vibe IMO. Does it bother me? Not really.

UAGM / LNF The Intros and the solos bug me.... but also LNF is far fom my fav song on ADTOE so whatevs.

WTF-LTL / FFH/BAI Do I listen to FFH as the intro to BAI? No. When they played FFH live.. did my mind automatically expect BAI? No. Are they both awesome piano ballads before the awesome Myung penned epics? Yes. Do I believe BAI is a carbon copy of LTL? No.

Cedar redaC · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:41:24 PM »

Quote from: Lolzeez on February 10, 2013, 11:06:22 AM

I&W is awesome.
ADTOE is awesome.

Why should that impact my enjoyment?!?!?!

Agreed.

Perpetual Change · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:50:43 PM »

There are few similarities, and none that are explicit or extraordinary. Way blown out of proportion and honestly the poll question seems loaded to me.

Pols Voice · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:56:37 PM »

Nope, they don't bother me. I do find a lot of similarities between LNF and UAGM especially, but it's actually rather clever.

News: Track-by-track video for Fall Into the Light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ezfzdMpRc0

Poll

How do ADOE' similarities to IAW impact your enjoyment of ADTOE?

Author Topic: How do ADOE' similarities to IAW impact your enjoyment of ADTOE? (Read 8512 times)