DREAM THEATER RELEASES TRAILER FOR NEW DVD, BLU-RAY, CD

[Shadow2222]

I have to chime in and say that this was much improved from an audio perspective from the theater showing. I listened to it in stereo, and the keyboards and bass were much better in the mix. James also sounds terrific, which is something that I didn't feel while watching it in the theater due to the sound.

I'm extremely happy with the actual concert portion (except for JP's "backing vocals." Just get rid of the microphone, since it is extremely obvious you are lip syncing  ).

[bosk1]

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else. 

The couple of times I have seen this mentioned, I have no idea where it is coming from.  I can hear the keyboard just find throughout the entire show.

[mabowe]

So I finally got the blu ray today. I put it in and with my normal settings it was all bass and drums, however with a small tweek to my settings through my system, i.e lowering the bass and upping the treble it came out perfect. I can hear the keyboards, as well as everything else just fine.  Maybe the mix is so raw that we have to manipulate it a bit.  Im sure at this point the band realizes that its fanbase is very anal about mixing and production they just left it up to us. I found my perfect mix. do the same.

[Sycsa]

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else.  Yeah yeah, I get it; everybody wants to hear the guitar and the keyboards don't mean shit, but when the music is specifically written and arranged for them to be "equals" and some numbnuts still decides it's fine if the guitar is twice as loud as everything else, it's just frustrating.  Who needs keyboards, or bass or drums for that matter?  Rock is all about the guitar.

Sure, if I listen really closely, I can hear the keyboards sometimes.  After five or ten minutes, I'm just frustrated and annoyed and would rather not even subject myself to it.  Bummer, too, 'cause I was looking forward to some live Mangini.  Maybe next time.  How long until the next live disc comes out?

I'm probably one of the biggest keyboard fans around; for more than half a decade I refused to listen to any kind of music which didn't have real tonewheel Hammond organ in it (probably that's why it took me that long to get into DT), so I definitely share some of your sentiments. When I popped in the DVD, I was instantly immensely disappointed because I couldn't hear Jordan's organ part at the beginning (2:13 in the studio version, a few seconds later in LP version). I commenced cursing the big bad loud greedy guitar. But then, redemption, the organ solo @8:30 was a lot heavier and more energetic than the studio version (thus it even felt louder), and it instantly made me prefer this version over the ADTOE one. So, yeah, the mix could be better, but LALP has a lot of redeeming qualities and overall, I can hear Jordan just fine, especially where it counts. Just don't listen to LALP and ADTOE back to back, it makes the burying of the keys sound criminal.

[SeRoX]

Man, the whole performance of Metropolis by JLB. 

This man is a monster, after all these years and injures.


I'll listen others but this. 

[Sycsa]

Holy shit, that Metropolis jam.  Jordan.
 
Also, that weird clicking sound still accompanies the kick drum at the beginning of LNF, just like in the studio version. What is that?

Another thing, you can hear sympathetic snare buzz all the way through when Mike hits some of his toms. I actually like that.

[Orbert]

How long until the next live disc comes out?

Soon.

Cool.  I'll wait.

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else. 

The couple of times I have seen this mentioned, I have no idea where it is coming from.  I can hear the keyboard just find throughout the entire show.

I know different people perceive things differently, but so far a number of people have complained about the mix, even specifically pointing out the keys and bass a few times.  This to me carries more weight than "everything is fine".

Maybe the mix is so raw that we have to manipulate it a bit.  Im sure at this point the band realizes that its fanbase is very anal about mixing and production they just left it up to us. I found my perfect mix. do the same.

But that's not the mix, that's the EQ.  Sure, I can mess with my EQ and trim off some high end (effectively dampening the drums and some of the guitar) or bump up the midrange (mostly keys but also some guitar), but what I can't do is change the relative mix of the individual instruments.  And really, we shouldn't have to do that at all.  I have a bunch of concert vids, and for almost every one of them, I put the disc in, hit Play, and I'm good.  We shouldn't have to mess around on our side to get things to sound decent, and there's only so much you can do anyway.

I'm probably one of the biggest keyboard fans around; for more than half a decade I refused to listen to any kind of music which didn't have real tonewheel Hammond organ in it (probably that's why it took me that long to get into DT), so I definitely share some of your sentiments. When I popped in the DVD, I was instantly immensely disappointed because I couldn't hear Jordan's organ part at the beginning (2:13 in the studio version, a few seconds later in LP version). I commenced cursing the big bad loud greedy guitar. But then, redemption, the organ solo @8:30 was a lot heavier and more energetic than the studio version (thus it even felt louder), and it instantly made me prefer this version over the ADTOE one. So, yeah, the mix could be better, but LALP has a lot of redeeming qualities and overall, I can hear Jordan just fine, especially where it counts. Just don't listen to LALP and ADTOE back to back, it makes the burying of the keys sound criminal.

It sounds like things aren't horrible, and even okay a lot of the time, but overall still kinda bad.


I understand that a live performance will generally not sound pristine and perfectly mixed like the studio album.  In fact, I wouldn't want it to be.  But taking the feed directly from the soundboard and mixing it grants almost the same degree of control over what ultimately comes out of the speakers, at least as far as the mix goes.  If they just set up some microphones in the audience and recorded what came over the P.A. and the mix sucks, we're shit out of luck.  But they're feeding every channel individually, even "fixing things" in the studio.  If any given instrument is too loud or too soft, that was a conscious choice by someone.

[Sycsa]

Maybe they wanted the mix to represent how it really sounded. Guitars are always up to 11 live.

[olliemedsy]

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else.  Yeah yeah, I get it; everybody wants to hear the guitar and the keyboards don't mean shit, but when the music is specifically written and arranged for them to be "equals" and some numbnuts still decides it's fine if the guitar is twice as loud as everything else, it's just frustrating.  Who needs keyboards, or bass or drums for that matter?  Rock is all about the guitar.

Sure, if I listen really closely, I can hear the keyboards sometimes.  After five or ten minutes, I'm just frustrated and annoyed and would rather not even subject myself to it.  Bummer, too, 'cause I was looking forward to some live Mangini.  Maybe next time.  How long until the next live disc comes out?

Why don't you just not get too upset about it and just enjoy the new dvd

[mabowe]

Did anyone else notice that the closing music for the doc was IT

[GasparXR]

Holy shit, that Metropolis jam.  Jordan.
 
Also, that weird clicking sound still accompanies the kick drum at the beginning of LNF, just like in the studio version. What is that?

Another thing, you can hear sympathetic snare buzz all the way through when Mike hits some of his toms. I actually like that.

The clicking in LNF I believe is part of JR's patch. Don't quote me, but I remember back in the ADTOE cycle people were confirming it. Personally I'm not a fan of it, I find that it clashes with the bass drum and it sounds flappy.

By the way, I haven't watched it yet, I still need to wait for it to come in. According to Amazon.ca it doesn't release until the 11th. Travesty!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I've digested it, finally. Thoughts:


1) The mix. I can get the complaints of the mix, the drums sound very thin and tiny compared to some of the MP-era live recordings (I instantly compared TROAE from Score and TROAE from Luna Park and the difference in sheer power was enormous). The guitars are super loud and the vocals are compressed to hell (hence the loud breathing sounds and loud vocals overall even in quiet songs like The Silent Man or Beneath the Surface), but I don't think it's terrible. It's quite a step up from CIM in every sense of the word, but the sound production could have been better (I'm shielding myself from "IF IT CAN BE BETTER THEN DO IT YOURSELF NEVER ENOUGH" comments). I'm really beginning to have my doubts about Rich Chycki; I don't doubt the guy's talent but his work with Dream Theater, so far, has not been as *amazing* as JP insists it is. That being said, it's OK. I can still enjoy the concert (and it was one hell of a show).

2) The image is wonderful, OTE did a fantastic job with the video editing. I missed some highlights throughout (like Mangini's crazy drum part at the end of Bridges in the Sky), but overall it was great.

3) James LaBrie. This was even better than Score, because it sounded more natural. In Score, his vocals sounded perfect to the point that they felt super polished...I mean, he didn't miss a note. I'm sure he sounded fantastic that night and that there was some standard pitch correction applied (it's no myth that pitch correction is used in 85% of today's recordings), but it was way too perfect. This time around, I can hear the sheer power coming out from his voice. He was the reason this wasn't a let down from me, and that this DVD is getting repeated listens by me. Bravo, James.

4) Extras. Before receiving some "OMG 3 HOURS OF CONSERT AND YOU COMPLAIN? EVERTING IS NEVER ENOUGH LIKE THE SONG DT PLS INDONESIA SOON MP DURM GOD", I do agree that their "the reason why this delayed will be quite clear for everyone" feels a little short. Score was released 4 months after the actual concert and packed far more extras. The documentary is cool and everything, but it did leave me with a feeling of..."is this everything?".


5) The performance. Amazing. I can't say enough good things about the band right now and their power live, it's a shame the DVD's mix didn't do it justice.

...All in all, an enjoyable DVD. Not the best by Dream Theater's high live standards, but a proud addition to my concert collection.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm starting to get weary of the "their standards" term. Their standards are the actual product. Its YOUR standards their standards didn't fulfill. 


I haven't seen it yet,  but from the two vids we got, my one complaint that really negates the point of recording where they did is the audience level. If its like the New York Ytsejam release of Take The Time, where during the chorus its silent during "Take the Time"...

Other than if you have complaints, voice them to their label.

[wasteland]

There might have been a problem picking up the crowd's noise, I think. It's speculation, I know, but having it this distant and low may not have been a deliberate choice but rather a forced necessity.

[Ben_Jamin]

There might have been a problem picking up the crowd's noise, I think. It's speculation, I know, but having it this distant and low may not have been a deliberate choice but rather a forced necessity.

Yeah I'm guessing that's the problem. But how if you have the guitar vocal mic, unless it was a prop.

[faizoff]

I agree with a lot that DarkLord_Lalinc said, the performances are amazing. I'm going to try out different sound systems but I never had to play around with music settings. The keys are weirdly inconsistent through out. In Breaking All Illusions it's plainly obvious it peaks and goes back in the background when listening to the stereo mix. Only reason I bring it up is because of how obvious the keys are in the studio version that you expect to hear them in the live version as well.

Anyways, that aside I really do like the disc, could've been better but isn't perfect. LAB and Score will forever be my fav DT video releases.

Another minor nitpick, how hard is it to design a creative menu for the Bluray? I mean its so easy to do it nowadays, if you compare it with Steven Wilson's EP Drive home, Steven has a very simple yet fitting menu to navigate through. Heck I just remembered the DVD of the DT12 5.1 doesnt even have a menu.

[Orbert]

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else.  Yeah yeah, I get it; everybody wants to hear the guitar and the keyboards don't mean shit, but when the music is specifically written and arranged for them to be "equals" and some numbnuts still decides it's fine if the guitar is twice as loud as everything else, it's just frustrating.  Who needs keyboards, or bass or drums for that matter?  Rock is all about the guitar.

Sure, if I listen really closely, I can hear the keyboards sometimes.  After five or ten minutes, I'm just frustrated and annoyed and would rather not even subject myself to it.  Bummer, too, 'cause I was looking forward to some live Mangini.  Maybe next time.  How long until the next live disc comes out?

Why don't you just not get too upset about it and just enjoy the new dvd

I'm not upset, just disappointed to know that it's another concert vid I won't be buying.  If I'd spent my money on it, I would be upset, but this is why I wait for reviews.  Now I know not to buy it.

As for enjoying the new DVD, that wouldn't happen whether I bought it or not, so at least I've saved some money.

[Ben_Jamin]

Sounds like I'll be sitting this one out.  It drives me nuckin' futs when the keyboards are mixed lower than everything else.  Yeah yeah, I get it; everybody wants to hear the guitar and the keyboards don't mean shit, but when the music is specifically written and arranged for them to be "equals" and some numbnuts still decides it's fine if the guitar is twice as loud as everything else, it's just frustrating.  Who needs keyboards, or bass or drums for that matter?  Rock is all about the guitar.

Sure, if I listen really closely, I can hear the keyboards sometimes.  After five or ten minutes, I'm just frustrated and annoyed and would rather not even subject myself to it.  Bummer, too, 'cause I was looking forward to some live Mangini.  Maybe next time.  How long until the next live disc comes out?

Why don't you just not get too upset about it and just enjoy the new dvd

I'm not upset, just disappointed to know that it's another concert vid I won't be buying.  If I'd spent my money on it, I would be upset, but this is why I wait for reviews.  Now I know not to buy it.

As for enjoying the new DVD, that wouldn't happen whether I bought it or not, so at least I've saved some money.

But then your letting people dictate what might end up being the best concert you bought.

[Orbert]

No, I'm making an informed decision on whether or not to buy it, based on the likelihood of enjoying it or not.

Holy fuck, why is this even a discussion?  I said I wasn't going to buy it, and explained why.  Okay, it was a rant, but people are giving me shit about it?

Some people say the mix is fine, but most are at least saying it's not great, and others say it's just plain bad.  No one is saying that the mix is actually good, and based on that, I'm not buying it.  It's really that simple.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I'm starting to get weary of the "their standards" term. Their standards are the actual product. Its YOUR standards their standards didn't fulfill. 

Easy, friend. By their standards, I mean that the sound quality of their live products was usually superb (Budokan and Score). It's only natural for fans to compare recent output with past output. People compare everything, and of course music is not an exception. It's fair to be critical of music every once in a while, as it's fair to be critical with films, with literature and other kinds of art. I do not agree entirely with your "their standards are the actual product", and that's because the band has a 25+ years worth of material and live released that form a general consensus and opinion of how do they usually sound in recordings. "Dream Theater usually sounds amazing in their live released" is something backed up, normally, by people who have checked out Live at the Marquee, Once in a LIVEtime, Live Scenes from New York, Live at Budokan, Score and some official bootlegs (notice how I left Chaos in Motion? That one's a big plot twist!). And when something comes out that doesn't live up to that reputation, it's going to get criticized naturally.

And, did I mention in my post I did enjoy the DVD? It just happens to rank lower than Score and Budokan it terms of sound quality. That's all.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I think visually the blu-ray looks wonderful. The instruments sound as great as I remembered from the two nights I experienced the US tour. As I've said many times before I'm sure, the band sounds much tighter, and far more precise with MM in the rhythm department. He's an elite musician and drummer and has elevated the band musically.

I only wish they didn't cut away to the videos on the screens as much as they do.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Overall I think it was very good.  Not as good as "Score" but better than "Budokan"  The Blue ray is chock full of music that's for sure.  My first gripe, and it's probably my fault, but I can't get it on the DTS master audio setting, it will only stay on stereo.  I'm pretty sure my receiver has DTS, I'm 100% positive my last one did.  My Denon is about 4 years old, I was able to find a decent surround sound setting for my 5.1, but I feel like I might be missing out on something.

First view thoughts.....

James...James...and James.    He is awesome in this performance. I would say his best on a DVD release by far.  A Couple critiques.... on the acoustic parts, it seems like there should be some type of diffuser or something that makes his vocals  not as "Breathy" (for lack of a better word).  I'm not a professional musician... so I don't know what could have been done, but I think there's probably something.  Maybe it's just technique or the mix?  I did find his oration a lil tedious at times though...  he was super chatty

JP's backing vocals.  In the past I've never been able to hear JP, and on some songs on this one I still can't.  That being said, he sounds great on Silent Man and fucking rocks on These Walls 


The Cameramen need to get out of the way (or be edited out better)  Every time it seems they showed  the gopro angle across JR's keys..the camaraman was  dicking around at the other end.  Yeah... I realize you'll always have some in a multiple camera shoot...but this seemed excessive too me.

MM's cymbal and hi-hat work is just fantastic.  While thin in the mix compared to past DVD's with MP...his cymbal and hi-hat work sounds awesome.  Super distinct and crisp.

JM, sitting alone behind the curtain for the half hour before the show starts?... I did not know that.  Interesting.

I don't know why it's so hard to balance the keys and guitars equally?  I assume...it's because, they  want it that way.  It just seems like it would sound so much better to me.  Again..I'm no pro so WTF do I know...

[bosk1]

Holy fuck, why is this even a discussion?  I said I wasn't going to buy it, and explained why.  Okay, it was a rant, but people are giving me shit about it?

Probably because your explanation makes no sense in that, as explained, it is based on complete misinformation.  Hey, if you don't want to buy it, that's cool.  But to not buy it because a couple of people said they can't hear the keyboard, when in reality the keyboards are very audible throughout the entire thing, just seems silly, and people aren't afraid to say so.  So there you have it. 

[Madman Shepherd]

Nobody has commented yet about what we do find out from the (less than stellar documentary), and that is why John Myung doesn't gather with the other four right before the concert (and the answer is not, "He just doesn't want to" as we were previously told).

Oh, and we also get to discover what they prefer for their main course at a restaurant.




*****Spoiler******




They all choose meat

[Sycsa]

Holy fuck, why is this even a discussion?  I said I wasn't going to buy it, and explained why.  Okay, it was a rant, but people are giving me shit about it?

Probably because your explanation makes no sense in that, as explained, it is based on complete misinformation.  Hey, if you don't want to buy it, that's cool.  But to not buy it because a couple of people said they can't hear the keyboard, when in reality the keyboards are very audible throughout the entire thing, just seems silly, and people aren't afraid to say so.  So there you have it.

After the initial reactions to the theater screenings, I expected much-much worse in terms of keyboards audibility. Don't forget the two YouTube releases though, which give a fairly good idea about the mix. Hearing LALP once, the only songs where I was really bothered by the low keys were These Walls and BAI. But it's still a problem that plagues this release to a certain degree.

[faizoff]

Hearing LALP once, the only songs where I was really bothered by the low keys were These Walls and BAI. But it's still a problem that plagues this release to a certain degree.

I agree, the keys in those 2 tracks are really bothersome by the fact that they're so buried. All other tracks the keys seem fine.

[bosk1]

Don't forget the two YouTube releases though, which give a fairly good idea about the mix.

I hear you, but I disagree that those give you a good idea of the mix.  JP was very clear that, for whatever reason, the default audio settings do not seem to be the optimal settings for a lot of people, and that it will sound a lot better if you go in and change the settings.  The YouTube videos do not have the best sound settings and are not a good reflection at all for how the Blu Ray sounded when I played it at home last night (or how the CDs sound, for that matter).  Again, with the proper settings, you can hear the keyboards just fine in almost every spot (at least, as far as I noticed when listening--I did not listen to the entire thing from start to finish with a focus on whether I could hear keyboards all the way through).  Are there sections where the keys are overpowered by the guitar?  Sure.  Are there parts where Jordan's patch blends with the bass or guitar and makes the keys hard to distinguish?  Sure.  But that has always been the case with DT's music.  It isn't a fault of this live release--at least, on the majority of songs.

But I'm not trying to pursuade anyone here.  We all here things differently, and if some are bothered by the mix, that's cool.  I'm just saying that the more broad statement of "keyboards are inaudible" is not correct.

[TheAtliator]

Mr. Bosk, which settings are you using?

[bosk1]

I haven't played around with the different settings.  But on my system, the default settings seem to sound great.  I'll mess around a bit more when I have the chance and let you know whether a different setting sounds better.

[olliemedsy]

Nobody has commented yet about what we do find out from the (less than stellar documentary), and that is why John Myung doesn't gather with the other four right before the concert (and the answer is not, "He just doesn't want to" as we were previously told).

Oh, and we also get to discover what they prefer for their main course at a restaurant.




*****Spoiler******




They all choose meat

Well I certainly learned that Mr. Rudess straightens his beard

[faizoff]

Cool to see this from the genie...

[Madman Shepherd]

Well I finally got to hear the rest of the album version since I don't have an optimal setup for the bluray and I have nothing new to offer in terms of opinions but I do want to reiterate how bothersome the mic distortion is from the breathy singing.  It is a pretty big letdown they wouldnt fix that.  BTS and TSCO are the worst.  Thankfully Surrounded and Silent Man aren't that affected. 

Other than that, the performances are nothing short of amazing and I am constantly blown away by James.  With the exceptions of the very highest notes which he hits with more of a scream/screech (which I actually prefer to the pitch perfect way) he is singing better than he ever has and it is very hard to put into words hearing it myself.  I mean, hes been through hell with his voice, hes been trashed by fans (and even a former member), but he is proving them all wrong as hell.  For someone like me that has loved his voice through thick and thin, I also take a little pride in knowing that I was right in thinking that nobody can sing DT songs like James.  I can't even imagine it. 

So yeah, the other criticism is valid though.  Keyboards are a bit low in spots but not in all songs.  Crowd noise is underwhelming.  I also wish they recorded MM's drums like MP's (aka in your face) but none of those are enough to take away a truly great DVD/bluRay/CD/album.  In fact, this is without a doubt my favorite DT live album with the undisputed best setlist (when you add in the bonus songs).   

[BlobVanDam]

I'm sure he sounded fantastic that night and that there was some standard pitch correction applied (it's no myth that pitch correction is used in 85% of today's recordings), but it was way too perfect. This time around, I can hear the sheer power coming out from his voice. He was the reason this wasn't a let down from me, and that this DVD is getting repeated listens by me. Bravo, James.

You're being very generous. It's more like 99%.

From the two tracks I've heard so far, I didn't hear any telltale signs of pitch correction at all, so if it was used, it was used very lightly, because I haven't heard any indication of it.
Based on what I've heard so far, I agree completely that JLB is a high point of this release. He sounds raw, and live, and he lets loose, but still sounds on pitch, and overall controlled. It's a great balance. I love hearing the growl, and the wide vibrato, which Score didn't have as much of.
If it weren't for JLB, I could have mistaken OTBOA for the studio version very easily, so he's definitely what I'm most excited to hear.

Speaking of which, my copy finally shipped today. Yay! I'll probably get it next week some time.

[The Curious Orange]

Got this yesterday and watched it last night - I've read some of the comments on here over the last few days and was expecting this to be a lot worse than it was.

This is a hell of a performance. Outcry and Metropolis are particular standouts. The band are on fire, and it serves as a testament to the power of this band - there are moments of sheer jaw-dropping awesomeness here. Fantastic.

Any negatives are relatively minor, with the exception of the "breathing" issues during JLB's quiet bits - I assumed they were turning his mic up for these bits? It's distracting, inexcuseable, and my only real complaint (I'm surprised they didn't overdub).

There's some colour bleeding on the visuals - it looks like the main cameras are film, while the on-stage cameras are video - but it sort of adds to the live experience, so I don't mind.

The mix is fine, I don't know what people are complaining about. The keys and bass are perfectly audible (perhaps you need to get your hearing checked? Or a better system?) and the drums are admittedly a little low, but not enough that it's a problem. Slightly more irritating is the low crowd noise - but then people complain when the crowd is too loud, so I guess its six of one. The extras are disappointing, but I bought it for the concert, not the extras, so who cares?

So all in all a fantastic DVD of a fantstic show by a fantastic band. Is it perfect? No, but very few things in life are. Stop complaining and enjoy it. 11 out of 10.

[adastra]

Got this yesterday and watched it last night - I've read some of the comments on here over the last few days and was expecting this to be a lot worse than it was.

This is a hell of a performance. Outcry and Metropolis are particular standouts. The band are on fire, and it serves as a testament to the power of this band - there are moments of sheer jaw-dropping awesomeness here. Fantastic.

Any negatives are relatively minor, with the exception of the "breathing" issues during JLB's quiet bits - I assumed they were turning his mic up for these bits? It's distracting, inexcuseable, and my only real complaint (I'm surprised they didn't overdub).

There's some colour bleeding on the visuals - it looks like the main cameras are film, while the on-stage cameras are video - but it sort of adds to the live experience, so I don't mind.

The mix is fine, I don't know what people are complaining about. The keys and bass are perfectly audible (perhaps you need to get your hearing checked? Or a better system?) and the drums are admittedly a little low, but not enough that it's a problem. Slightly more irritating is the low crowd noise - but then people complain when the crowd is too loud, so I guess its six of one. The extras are disappointing, but I bought it for the concert, not the extras, so I don't care.

So all in all a fantastic DVD of a fantstic show by a fantastic band. Is it perfect? No, but very few things in life are. Stop complaining and enjoy it. 11 out of 10.

FTFY