Where should bosk1 go NEXT with Iron Maiden? (updated discog on p. 5)

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, there might be half of one decent album if you combine the listenable tracks from both of them 

[bosk1]

I just relistened to No Prayer for the Dying and Fear of the Dark. Bosk, I don't think you should ever get them. lol.

Dude, you are all over the place lately.    Okay, why should I NOT listen to those?

[GuineaPig]

I love No Prayer.  Fear is the worst Maiden album, though.

[Jaq]

That's why I think they write songs that way, it works well live.  Not the most interesting thing to do for an album, and it has hurt many of their songs and albums.

Oh, indeed. Listen to Blood Brothers in the studio or watch a live DVD and you'll notice the chorus right away and chuckle. See the band live in person and you will be absolutely unable to resist singing along.

They'll occasionally bust out a more uptempo number, but their stock in trade now is sprawling, lengthy epics, with tons of songs in the 8-9 minute range, and a rather unique use of the three guitars in the band.

I wouldn't call song with four different riffs repeated over and over and over epic. *coughthelongestdayforthegreatergoodofgodisleofavalonthetalismanwhenthewildwindblowscough*

You wouldn't, but I would. Thanks for your utterly spurious definition of epic, though. Given that some of the longer Maiden songs people consider epic have even FEWER riffs-Hallowed Be Thy Name is a variation on a single riff the entire song-I'm kinda chuckling here.

[Perpetual Change]

I just relistened to No Prayer for the Dying and Fear of the Dark. Bosk, I don't think you should ever get them. lol.

Dude, you are all over the place lately.    Okay, why should I NOT listen to those?

Because,

I love No Prayer.

Serious answer: NPftD is Maiden stepping back from the super seriousness of SSOASS and blowing off steam. There's a few good songs, but most are bad and lyrically superficial. Some seem like self-parody. What is "Tailgunner" if not "Aces High" steeped in homoeroticism? "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter" if not "Number of the Beast", but this time everything the religious right feared the former was?

By comparison, FotD is just boring. It was Maiden's first CD length record, and also the first that seems to really suffer from too much filler. Maiden were running out of ideas, and it showed.

There are many, many more issues with both albums, but we'll get to 'em soon. Collectively, they're Maiden's two worst albums.

[theseoafs]

bosk, you honestly wouldn't be missing out on anything if you didn't pick up NPFTD and FOTD.  Eventually, you'll probably get them anyway, just to complete your collection, but they're horrible albums full of horrible material.

Anyway, NPFTD is up next in the discog thread, so save your complaints until then, guys.

[wolfking]

FOTD is top 5 Maiden for me, I personally love the whole album.  Great original ideas and some excellent soloing from the boys.  Good to see time and key changes in the solos, it makes them more exciting.

[Cyclopssss]

Boy, do tastes differ. I agree on NPFTD, but I personally loved Fear when it came out. I agree, however that there is some filler on it (the apparition comes to mind).

[Cedar redaC]

Can I play with madness has just always been an awesome song for me. The keyboard part in the chorus is just great!

[Ruba]

They'll occasionally bust out a more uptempo number, but their stock in trade now is sprawling, lengthy epics, with tons of songs in the 8-9 minute range, and a rather unique use of the three guitars in the band.

I wouldn't call song with four different riffs repeated over and over and over epic. *coughthelongestdayforthegreatergoodofgodisleofavalonthetalismanwhenthewildwindblowscough*

You wouldn't, but I would. Thanks for your utterly spurious definition of epic, though. Given that some of the longer Maiden songs people consider epic have even FEWER riffs-Hallowed Be Thy Name is a variation on a single riff the entire song-I'm kinda chuckling here.

Hey, I'm not native English, I have sometimes expressing my thoughts. You mentioned HBTN, well, the key riff is insanely better than ANY riff on reunion albums. I'm not sure whether I even should call it epic though.

bosk, don't let Perpetual Change decide instead of yourself. I don't personally care about No Prayer, neither Fear of the Dark, but I must admit they have some neat songs.

[Lowdz]

Boy, do tastes differ. I agree on NPFTD, but I personally loved Fear when it came out. I agree, however that there is some filler on it (the apparition comes to mind).

I prefer the guitar sounds on FotD to SSoaSS or SiT.

[TAC]

Bosk, If I may, before you get the Golden Era under your belt and take a Maiden break, I would try and get Seventh Son out of the way first.

Then, after you can catch your breath, I'd hit the Reunion era albums. They are incredible albums that will really challenge your new music stamina quotient!

I actually think Bosk would love Fear Of The Dark. Wasting Love and Childhod's End are perfect for him! FOTD was the first album in the "CD age" so there are tracks that should not be there and are definitely B grade, but I feel the album is easily 8 songs deep.

[Dream Team]

Bosk, If I may, before you get the Golden Era under your belt and take a Maiden break, I would try and get Seventh Son out of the way first.

Then, after you can catch your breath, I'd hit the Reunion era albums. They are incredible albums that will really challenge your new music stamina quotient!

I actually think Bosk would love Fear Of The Dark. Wasting Love and Childhod's End are perfect for him! FOTD was the first album in the "CD age" so there are tracks that should not be there and are definitely B grade, but I feel the album is easily 8 songs deep.

I agree with this. I got FOTD on cassette which had that hilarious stuff on the B side. My favorite was Bruce saying something during a song like "here comes Metallica in the rear-view mirror". 

[Perpetual Change]

I actually think Bosk would love Fear Of The Dark. Wasting Love and Childhod's End are perfect for him! FOTD was the first album in the "CD age" so there are tracks that should not be there and are definitely B grade, but I feel the album is easily 8 songs deep.

Hmm, good point. I hadn't listened to Fear in a long time, but when I did again a few days ago, I was pretty floored by how obvious the hair influence was. The ballads and "gang" vocals and all... Which is really weird. Maiden were trying to reinvent themselves for the 90's, and did so by adopting some style points from a genre that was basically already on life support.

[bosk1]

Dream Team asked me in another thread if I had nailed down a top 10 yet.  That's tough to do, since I only have 4 studio albums and one live album.  But if I had to, I guess my top 10 would be:

1.  Revelations
2.  Alexander The Great
3.  The Trooper
4.  The Clansman (live)
5.  Dream Of Mirrors (live)
6.  Hallowed Be Thy Name
7.  Stranger In A Strange Land
8.  Fear Of The Dark (live)
9.  The Evil That Men Do (live)
10.  Sea Of Madness

To Tame A Land and Rime Of The Ancient Mariner just missed.  I can maybe do writeups on these later.  I'm a bit swamped at work right now.  And I know the live tracks may be odd choices, but I've never heard the studio version of those songs, and the live versions on Rock In Rio are just excellent.  So there you go.

[Perpetual Change]

Good list. Not big on "Dream of Mirrors" but it is better live. Otherwise, great to see some love for "Revelations", which is also way up there for me.

"Fear" live is the definitive version. I think many live versions of "The Evil That Men Do" are better than the studio version, too.

[bosk1]

Listening to Rock In Rio again right now, and a couple of additional thoughts occurred to me.  First, 2 Minutes To Midnight should also be added to my "just missed" list.  Second, disk 2 is SO much stronger to me than disk 1.  Not that the first half of the set is bad.  But it feels kind of all over the place, with some pretty good songs, and some that aren't bad, but just aren't all that great either.  But I guess 5 songs from disk 2 ending up in my top 10 should tell you how I feel about that disk.   

Over the weekend, when I was stuck at the computer for awhile, for some reason, I got off on a track of clicking on Iron Maidens (the female Iron Maiden tribute band) vids on YouTube, and it got me realizing that the vast majority of my top 10 list is sort of a Maiden "greatest hits" list.  Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but just something I noticed.  There were a couple of things I found really distracting about those videos though.  Anyway...

[Cyclopssss]

Yeah....those maidens are a damn nuisance! (they have some strong points, though) 

[Perpetual Change]

it got me realizing that the vast majority of my top 10 list is sort of a Maiden "greatest hits" list.  Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but just something I noticed.

I think that's normal. Until the reunion, Maiden weren't really a band known for having tons of really great "deep" tracks that weren't singles.

[Dream Team]

Dream Team asked me in another thread if I had nailed down a top 10 yet.  That's tough to do, since I only have 4 studio albums and one live album.  But if I had to, I guess my top 10 would be:

1.  Revelations
2.  Alexander The Great
3.  The Trooper
4.  The Clansman (live)
5.  Dream Of Mirrors (live)
6.  Hallowed Be Thy Name
7.  Stranger In A Strange Land
8.  Fear Of The Dark (live)
9.  The Evil That Men Do (live)
10.  Sea Of Madness

To Tame A Land and Rime Of The Ancient Mariner just missed.  I can maybe do writeups on these later.  I'm a bit swamped at work right now.  And I know the live tracks may be odd choices, but I've never heard the studio version of those songs, and the live versions on Rock In Rio are just excellent.  So there you go.

No pressure - it's just good info to have so we have an idea of which album to recommend next.

[snapple]

The Trooper over Rime? You're a damn fool.

[Perpetual Change]

Consequently, I was rewatching some of those live versions from "Rock in Rio". Holy crap, the editing really does ruin that concert! I remember thinking it wasn't THAT bad, but I couldn't even get through the performance of "The Evil That Men Do".

"En Vivo" is really words better, and from now on, it's gonna have to be the only of the many reunion era concert films that I recommend to people.

[TAC]

Consequently, I was rewatching some of those live versions from "Rock in Rio". Holy crap, the editing really does ruin that concert! I remember thinking it wasn't THAT bad, but I couldn't even get through the performance of "The Evil That Men Do".

"En Vivo" is really words better, and from now on, it's gonna have to be the only of the many reunion era concert films that I recommend to people.

Oh yeah, the editing is bad. And Death On The Road is horrific. DOTR has the greatest footage Of the band ever filmed but it's completely ruined.

[Perpetual Change]

Have you seen "En Vivo", TAC?

I avoided it for so long, thinking, "meh, it's just another reunion DVD-- there's already 3!" but decided to get it when I got a BluRay player. I'm glad I did, because it's phenomenal.

There's a lot of splitscreen stuff going on, but that's way less offensive than being shown 150 camera angles per minute. And, if you have a big enough TV, it actually works really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhrKsFoV9Ac

That above video obviously doesn't do the final product justice, though. Listen to it in 5.1, and it all sounds absolutely amazing.

[TAC]

Oh, I definitely have it! Watched it on Sunday when we got home from Disney.
The repeated songs On live releases is a drawback. No AMOLAD songs!

But it was a great show with a great setlist nonetheless.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, agreed, but performances of "2 Minutes to Midnight" that rock as hard as that make it worthwhile. Also, it's nice that they brought out WTWWB, although "Coming Home" and "The Talisman" are nowhere near my favorites from that album. I didn't mind most of the reunion repearts like "Wickerman" either, 'cause this is really the first time we're getting them in watchable form. Too bad they didn't play "Paschendale" at that show, though the version on DotR isn't completely terrible.

On that note, I've never actually bought Death on the Road, but I've always wanted to considering how awesome the costuming and set was (I'm a Dance of Death fan, and lots of the best DoD material is there).  Problem is, the disc being recalled two or three times was enough to keep me too nervous to buy it, because I was never sure if I was going to be getting a copy that actually worked or not.

Clicking through now, and geez. "Wildest Dreams" is unwatchable. Thankfully, Harris seems to have gotten progressively lazier as the show goes on, perhaps too lazy to really put enough effort in to ruin all of it. By the time you get to "Dance of Death" it almost looks like a normal concert. By that time you get to "Journeyman", it is

I agree about AMOLAD. It needs a DVD. The Stockholm show is absolutely fantastic, and I will be very disappointed if it doesn't get professional treatment at some point.

[TAC]

Coming Home and The Talisman are my two favorite songs on the album!

They filmed the Donnington 07 show which has 5 or 6 AMOLAD songs so hopefully that gets released sometime.

Definitely get DOTR. It has a bonus DVD where they show the creation of the stage show. It is excellent.

[kirksnosehair]

OK, I never buy DVDs, I think I might own 10 of them max, but this bad boy is mine.  Right now.   

[Ruba]

bosk, I guess your Fear of the Dark is from Rock in Rio? Go get the A Real Live One version, that's fabulous.

[bosk1]

I appreciate the suggestion.  But the problem with being new to a band and buying 5 albums over the span of a week-and-a-half (as well as hearing other random, isolated tracks here and there) is oversaturation.  I popped in Piece Of Mind last night on the drive home, and after not listening to it for two weeks and having listened so much to the other ones I've bought, Piece Of Mind felt REALLY old.  So I think I'm going to do what I said above and take a break from anything new for awhile and just take the time to get to know and enjoy what I have first.  For one thing, I'm really content with the albums I have.  For another, there is some good stuff that will probably just get lost and never get listened to if I keep loading up.

[Perpetual Change]

bosk, I guess your Fear of the Dark is from Rock in Rio? Go get the A Real Live One version, that's fabulous.

Ugh. Overall, though, that set is the "Chaos in Motion" of IM live releases.

I appreciate the suggestion.  But the problem with being new to a band and buying 5 albums over the span of a week-and-a-half (as well as hearing other random, isolated tracks here and there) is oversaturation.  I popped in Piece Of Mind last night on the drive home, and after not listening to it for two weeks and having listened so much to the other ones I've bought, Piece Of Mind felt REALLY old.  So I think I'm going to do what I said above and take a break from anything new for awhile and just take the time to get to know and enjoy what I have first.  For one thing, I'm really content with the albums I have.  For another, there is some good stuff that will probably just get lost and never get listened to if I keep loading up.

I'm feeling really saturated, too. My plan is to avoid listening to Maiden until we get to Brave New World. I'd recommend you do the same; chill for awhile, and then come back refreshed to listen to a new album by a very refreshed reunion Maiden.

[bosk1]

bosk, I guess your Fear of the Dark is from Rock in Rio? Go get the A Real Live One version, that's fabulous.

Ugh. Overall, though, that set is the "Chaos in Motion" of IM live releases.

  Not even close.  But I will say, the sets for the Chaos In Motion tour, and the DVD itself were AMAZING!  The sets are not the problem on the DVD.  The performances and the video quality are.  But as far as Rock In Rio, to me, it's a GREAT set.  It bogs down a bit in the early middle (the stretch from Blood Brothers through The Mercenary, for me).  But it's otherwise VERY solid, IMO.  And the video quality is excellent.  The only thing that I think can credibly be argued to be subpar is the editing because of the rapid-fire scene changes.  But as I mentioned in the other thread, overally, I think RiR is terrific.  In most respects that matter to me, it's hard to imagine a better live release from a band.

[Perpetual Change]

RiR is terrific.

I'm talking about the "A Real Live/Dead One" set, actually. Maiden had just released a live album, and then Harris, with pressure from the label who were worried the band was breaking up, decided to release two more live albums of performances from throughout the tour. These were designed to be "bootleg" quality, which really just meant that Harris and the label weren't going to be putting any work into making them sound good.

Rock in Rio is a good concert. The editing is really weird and I don't like it, but the sound is pretty good and the footage is great. It also was (I think) Maiden's first DVD concert, and the first reunion live album, so it's historic. I still think "En Vivo" makes it obsolete now to some degree, but RiR/LaD are both pretty much the most widely esteemed Maiden live releases. Though as GP and Barto had pointed out, they're not necessarily the best shows, especially in the case of the LaD.

Edit: to be clear, I'm not hating on CiM. It's a cool release for DT diehards, which I most certainly am. And, honestly, it's about as good as most of the SC deserves IMO

[bosk1]

I'm talking about the "A Real Live/Dead One" set, actually.

Oh, I see.  I misunderstood you. 

I still think "En Vivo" makes it obsolete now to some degree...

How so?  There is a bit of overlap in the set lists, but over 1/3 of the set list from En Vivo is dominated by The Final Frontier.  The set is VERY heavy on that album.  Rock In Rio is much more diverse.  So overall, you have only about half of the set that is the same.  While that's not insignificant, I don't think it's enough to make RiR obsolete at all. 


EDIT:  I'll also say this about RiR:  I would watch it if the ONLY song that was different was The Clansman.  I don't see how any fan of live rock/metal can watch that and not find it thoroughly entertaining in just about every respect possible.

[Perpetual Change]

Ok, well, I guess I should be explaining myself better. RiR isn't obsolete, but I'd say it's no longer the "definitive" Maiden DVD; I'd hand that to En Vivo now.

From a technical level, I think it's hard to deny Vivo's got better picture, and sound. From a setlist and performance perspective, it's a bit more subjective.

The DVDs feature 9 or 10 songs in common which are Maiden classics that get played at almost every show, and then some additional album songs and throwbacks. RiR has lots of Brave New World, and a few nods to the Blaze Bayley era, plus "Run to the Hills" and "Sanctuary". En Vivo has lots of TFF,  plus "Dance of Death" and "Running Free". In both cases, I think the concerts could have represented their albums with better material (BNW and Navigator insteady of Silent Planet and Thin Line? Talisman and Coming Home instead of Avalon and TMwwbK?). But, in the end, it really evens out since I like both BNW and TFF equally. What becomes the deciding factor for me is basically the huge technical advantage that Vivo has.

Also, the Vivo stage design is glorious. I love the whole Space theme and the starry background, and probably like it so much because of my great memories from the TFF show I went to. IIRC, Rio is pretty bland by Maiden standards.