Author Topic: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography  (Read 47373 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaq

  • Posts: 4050
  • Gender: Male
  • Favorite song by Europe: Carrie.
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #210 on: March 12, 2013, 01:55:29 PM »
Things tended to slip my notice in the early 90s for a lot of reasons, the main being that the drinking that made a great many of the stories I tell about the 80s in the MTV thread so funny had grown to be a problem. My Behind The Music period was the chief reason why I wasn't even aware, until around 2001 or so, that ELP had had a reunion in the 90s, let alone put out two albums. It simply flew right by me. So I arrived to Black Moon very late.

Part of me is glad I did.

Sometimes you get reunions that match or even exceed the power of the original. Deep Purple in the 80s leaps to mind there. ELP's reunion doesn't hit those heights. Black Moon feels safe and perfunctory, the band going through the motions because, well, they re-united, need new product to tour behind, but it's the same safe, almost bland at times product that marked the 3 album and is in Emerson Lake and Powell on occasion, though I like that album. Interestingly enough, had the ELP reunion happened a few years later, when a great many AOR and prog rock bands of the 70s started making touring comebacks, I think the band would have fared better, and possibly could have gotten by with a reunion live album. I'm not saying that ELP should have come out, all guns blazing with mid-70s weirdness, mind you, but there could have been more adventure here. This album's just...safe.
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings become dust in the wake of the hymn.
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall, no more than a breath on the wind.

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #211 on: March 12, 2013, 02:05:17 PM »
I have never got the love for Black Moon. It has its share of fans, obviously, but most of them seem to be people who wanted to give ELP a whirl and bought it by accident, like Kev  :biggrin:

Anyway, I haven't been avoiding this thread, but I just haven't really heard much Emerson Lake & Powell, and I still don't really know/care what "3 to the Power of 3" is, so I really had nothing to bring to those discussions.

I will post actual thoughts in this thread soon.

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: The ELP Discography: Emerson, Lake & Powell (1986)
« Reply #212 on: March 12, 2013, 05:51:16 PM »
There's only three guys in the band, and if two of them get together with some other guy, and the basic band dynamic is clearly the same, then I consider them a very close offshoot, essentially the same band with one substitution.  I included ABWH in the Yes discography for the same reason despite the word "Yes" not appearing on the cover.  ELPowell and 3 are both clearly part of the evolution of Emerson Lake & Palmer.

The idea is not simply to discuss the material on the albums, but also how the band and their music have changed over the years, due to changes in the music landscape, changes in personnel, and anything else.


Agreed. A little context never hurt anyone.

Here's VERY little of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prB8FIx3fj0




I have searched for the guitar on this album for years and haven't found it. If it's there, it's being overpowered by an identical synth line. I used to think I was missing it because when it came out I owned a lousy stereo, but I can't find it on much better sound systems.

Negative for me too, but I only did one pass through.



Tim, those are awesome photos. I wished I brought my camera that night.

I did buy a shirt (the 3/4 baseball sleeve) then that my 14-year-old absconded with last year.




Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: The ELP Discography: 3 to the Power of Three (1988)
« Reply #213 on: March 12, 2013, 06:16:36 PM »
Emerson, Lake & Powell toured their one and only album, playing material from that album and also some Emerson Lake & Palmer material, but there were some problems, and they ended up firing their management.  Cozy Powell left and Carl Palmer actually came back for a while, so it was a bona fide Emerson Lake & Palmer reunion, but the old Emerson-Lake tensions returned and ELP self-destructed again before getting anywhere near a studio or a stage.

But with Asia on hiatus, Carl Palmer was ready to play with Keith Emerson again, so they enlisted singer/bassist/guitarist Robert Berry and continued on.  Without even the initials ELP in their favor, and the idea of calling the band Emerson, Berry & Palmer apparently distasteful, they settled on the name 3.

3 to the Power of Three (1988)



Robert Berry: Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Keith Emerson: Keyboards
Carl Palmer: Drums, Percussion




I love this album too. I suppose you could call it Asia-lite except it really doesn't sound much like Asia.

I was dressed in all the acoutraments that you needed to get a shot in the late '80s, but not many noticed.

Like the album before it, the single got some airplay but instead of arenas, the band played theaters and clubs, probably due to the name change as the Emerson/Palmer brand didn't carry the same weight of even a few years previous.


Strangely, this was my first exposure to Robert Berry and I think it's the best thing he's ever been involved with. I can't say I'm a fan of his cottage industry tribute work although I don't think he's a bad producer. I like his work with Tempest.

Somewhere around here of have 3's Rockline intervew on cassette along with their show at The Ritz (Where Dream Theater would open for Marillion about a year later)

I think this may have also been around the time that Keith Emerson became aware of Kevin Gilbert.

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #214 on: March 12, 2013, 06:43:47 PM »
Quote
Emerson, Berry & Palmer toured as 3, playing songs from 3 to the Power of Three and some older ELP material.  But since Robert Berry's voice was so different from Greg Lake's, the ELP material was all performed as instrumentals.  After the conclusion of the tour, they went their separate ways.

In 1991, Emerson Lake & Palmer decided to give it another shot.  Carl Palmer was still working with Asia, but divided his time between Asia and ELP.  Eventually, he left Asia to participate full time in the ELP reunion tour.  In June of that year, two albums were released featuring Carl Palmer on drums.  They were Asia's latest, Aqua, and

Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)




Black Moon  6:56
Paper Blood  4:26
Affairs of the Heart  3:46
Romeo and Juliet  3:40
Farewell to Arms  5:08
Changing States  6:01
Burning Bridges  4:41
Close to Home  4:27
Better Days  5:33
Footprints in the Snow  3:50



I couldn't believe it when I found out these guys were getting back together. I'll admit I was expecting ELP unbridled, but it didn't quite work out that way.

This album is kind of ELP at half-speed. fortunately the creative juices were still there and this album probably deserved a better fate. There's a lot to like here even if it lumbers in places.

As I understand it a friend of the band's in the industry asked if they would do a soundtrack for a movie but when they got together to write they all felt they should write an album instead and scrapped the soundtrack idea.

This is also the point where their new record label bought their old catalog and reissued everything for the first time and also issued their first box set Return Of The Manticore which features the band doing a track each from the members bands before they joined ELP. Their old label, Atlantic, also decided to take advantage of this by issuing a 2-disc compilation.

I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.

This is the end of the live line for me. I have a few live recordings from this period, but the rest are from the salad days when very few could touch this band live.




Bob..here's a little something you might enjoy.

I was floored by it myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6pjN9Id-jw

Nothing Jordan couldn't handle on his own....

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #215 on: March 12, 2013, 09:06:24 PM »
Man, it's always dangerous when people post YouTube links.  I almost never think of searching for them myself, but I always see things along the right side that look interesting and end up spending way too much time watching videos.

The VeeJays clip was fun.  I don't think I saw that when it was originally on.  Then I watched ELP on The Tonight Show, then some Karn Evil 9 rehearsal, then I had to stop myself.

The Orchestrated Tarkus was cool.  I've heard it before, but never saw it live like that.  Too bad they did the "live" version rather than the studio version, or something like that.  I like how it really cranks on the live album, but there's still something more powerful and ominous about playing it at the slower tempo, and I think for having an entire orchestra, there could have been more power.  There are important lines and countermelodies that you can't hear.  With 100 musicians, there's no excuse for not covering all the parts.  But it was cool that they did it.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41971
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #216 on: March 13, 2013, 08:44:11 AM »
Okay, that was unexpected.  I knew you were anxious to get to this one, though I didn't know why.  But the 3 to the Power of Three discussion didn't go anywhere (only one person here has even heard the album?) so what the heck, on we go.
 

I don't know any of the 80s "ELP" stuff, so I didn't comment on them.



But a positive review of this album?  That was unexpected.  As much as I keep reminding myself that each album, each work by any artist, should be judged on its own merit and not relative to the artist's body of work, I find myself not always taking that advice.  It's hard.  But now I think I finally know how to do it.  Start with "What if this was the first thing you ever heard by this artist?"  Literally a fresh set of ears, free from the prejudice imposed by knowing everything that Emerson Lake & Palmer had done prior to this point.

That can be difficult to do, but I agree that that is a good attitude to take going into an album.

Sometimes you get reunions that match or even exceed the power of the original. Deep Purple in the 80s leaps to mind there. ELP's reunion doesn't hit those heights. Black Moon feels safe and perfunctory, the band going through the motions because, well, they re-united, need new product to tour behind, but it's the same safe, almost bland at times product that marked the 3 album and is in Emerson Lake and Powell on occasion, though I like that album. Interestingly enough, had the ELP reunion happened a few years later, when a great many AOR and prog rock bands of the 70s started making touring comebacks, I think the band would have fared better, and possibly could have gotten by with a reunion live album. I'm not saying that ELP should have come out, all guns blazing with mid-70s weirdness, mind you, but there could have been more adventure here. This album's just...safe.

I agree that the album is safe, but look at this way: even amongst a lot of that instrumental craziness in the early 70s, their songs almost always had very strong vocal melodies.  And we got those on Black Moon, too.  We just didn't get the extended crazy instrumental stuff.  So, it's like ELP without the craziness, which seems like blasphemy, as that craziness was their bread and butter, so I get why the album is a turnoff for a lot of people.


I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.

Funny you say that, as I saw them on that tour, too, and I thought they were great.  Of course, I didn't have any frame of reference at the time, and, sure, when I got more into them and heard and saw some of their live stuff from the 70s, they were on a whole different plane then, but they were still pretty great on that tour in '92.  I saw them in the later 90s as well, and while I enjoyed that concert, they did seem pretty subdued by their standards, but on the comeback tour?  No way.

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #217 on: March 13, 2013, 09:17:09 AM »
Okay, two big problems here:

1. The production is awful. I really can't stand the 80's vibes. I guess if you like 80's pop, it's OK, but I don't really, and I don't think it works well with ELP music at all.
2. Despite some interesting stuff going on musically, the songs are just not good. Lyrics and songwriting were never Lake's strong point, but on the classic ELP albums you could always expect the trio to knock it out of the park at least once or twice, at least musically if not lyrically. Everything on Black Moon seems mediocre. It's not offensively bad like "Love Beach", but it's not good either.

I kinda consider "Black Moon" to be the typical reunion album, similar to Yes' return to prog in the 90's. It's OK, but it's kinda like the stuff from the 70s, just less inspired and energetic overall, and sprinkled with absolute crap. You have to REALLY love the band to like those kinds of albums. And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41971
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #218 on: March 13, 2013, 02:06:15 PM »
And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.

That's not saying much, but neither band has guys I would call "loveable" (in the musicians' personality sense).  Howe, Squire and Wakeman have all struck me as being obnoxious dicks at one time or another.

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #219 on: March 15, 2013, 09:56:01 PM »
Man, it's always dangerous when people post YouTube links.  I almost never think of searching for them myself, but I always see things along the right side that look interesting and end up spending way too much time watching videos.

The VeeJays clip was fun.  I don't think I saw that when it was originally on.  Then I watched ELP on The Tonight Show, then some Karn Evil 9 rehearsal, then I had to stop myself.

The Orchestrated Tarkus was cool.  I've heard it before, but never saw it live like that.  Too bad they did the "live" version rather than the studio version, or something like that.  I like how it really cranks on the live album, but there's still something more powerful and ominous about playing it at the slower tempo, and I think for having an entire orchestra, there could have been more power.  There are important lines and countermelodies that you can't hear.  With 100 musicians, there's no excuse for not covering all the parts.  But it was cool that they did it.

I search for random stuff once in a while. I wish you tube would have a least popular setting.  When I search I have to go through a lot of crap to get to things of interest.

You're right though. Pretty dangerous once you start

Quote


Quote from: ytserush on March 12, 2013, 08:43:47 PM


I saw them on this tour and the next one for the live album and that was it for me. It was sad for me to watch the band live during these years and decided I couldn't see them perform as a band again if the opportunity ever came up.




Funny you say that, as I saw them on that tour, too, and I thought they were great.  Of course, I didn't have any frame of reference at the time, and, sure, when I got more into them and heard and saw some of their live stuff from the 70s, they were on a whole different plane then, but they were still pretty great on that tour in '92.  I saw them in the later 90s as well, and while I enjoyed that concert, they did seem pretty subdued by their standards, but on the comeback tour?  No way.

Frame of reference was that Emerson was suffering from medical issues with his hands. He tried. And Carl needed almost half the show to warm to make sure he shined during his solo. Of course ELP by half is still better than a lot of bands. But still sad to watch.


Quote
Perpetual Change:
I kinda consider "Black Moon" to be the typical reunion album, similar to Yes' return to prog in the 90's. It's OK, but it's kinda like the stuff from the 70s, just less inspired and energetic overall, and sprinkled with absolute crap. You have to REALLY love the band to like those kinds of albums. And the personalities of Yes, I think, are a lot more loveable than ELP.

What's a typical reunion album?  You're talking about a 20 year span. People get older.

I wouldn't have brought personalities into it, but both bands came from the same scene and eventually became victims of industry excess like many other bands have.

And Love Beach is as good if not better than Black Moon. More than half of Love Beach is as good anything they'd done previously. Unfortunately, the rest is in the league of In The Hot Seat.

Sure the album cover of Love Beach sucks and might be the worst ever. (Carl still jokes about it) I think for every person that trashes that album that has listened to it, two or three never bothered after looking at the cover.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41971
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2013, 02:13:33 PM »
If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s


Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2013, 11:08:53 PM »
Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)




Hand of Truth
Daddy
One By One
Heart on Ice
Thin Line
Man in the Long Black Coat
Change
Give Me a Reason to Stay
Gone Too Soon
Street War

----------

Black Moon may not have fully recaptured the glory days of Emerson, Lake & Palmer (note the comma which was now officially in the band name), but sales of the album were pretty good, no doubt boosted by the fact that it was their first album in 14 years, and the 1992-1993 world tours were successful enough to encourage ELP to make a follow-up album. 

Say what you will about the quality of the songwriting on this album (and indeed much has been said), but ELP cannot be accused of repeating themselves, or resting on their laurels.  Just as Genesis and Yes changed both their sound and approach to adapt to the changing musical climate, Emerson, Lake & Palmer did the same.  Another album of ten songs, all in the four- to five-minute range, fusing simpler song structures with virtuoso playing.  As with Black Moon, the songs on In the Hot Seat aren't particularly adventurous, but feature some new tricks, and continue to break new ground musically.

Sadly, it's usually a bad sign when an established band resorts to using outside writers.  Either the band or the label is clearly hoping to score a hit, and willing to sacrifice the band's integrity to get it.  Or maybe the band is just out of ideas and needs a spark from the outside to help get the job done, but that's not exactly a preferable scenario.


The album opens with a catchy, uptempo song called "Hand of Truth" featuring a fast keyboard lick as its hook. The song goes through a couple of changes before the vocals finally come in, over two minutes into its 5:22 length.

The momentum, unfortunately, is immediately halted by "Daddy", a song Greg Lake was inspired to write by the tragic kidnapping case of Sara Anne Wood.  It's actually a pretty good song, but it's quite depressing, and feels like social commentary being that it's based on a true story, and it just seems incredibly out of place on an ELP album.

"One By One" is a medium rocker in 12/8, featuring Keith's first use of orchestral samples.  Writing credit goes to Emerson, Lake, and someone named Keith Olsen, whose name appears in the credits for four of the songs on this album.  My curiosity about this guy is simply not strong enough to overcome my laziness.  (In other words, I'd love to tell you more about Keith Olsen, but I just don't care enough about him to look him up.)

"Heart on Ice" is a Lake ballad, with another co-writing credit to Keith Olsen.  It's not one of Greg's better songs, and if that's Keith Olsen's fault, then it is.  It reminds me of any of the countless 90's David Foster songs recorded by Chicago and/or sung by Peter Cetera.

"Thin Line" isn't too bad.  It's a shuffle, something new for ELP, and is driven along quite nicely by Palmer's percussion.  This one's credited to Emerson, Keith Olsen again, and someone named Bill Wray.

"Man in the Long Black Coat" is a cover of a Bob Dylan song.  Yes, you read that correctly, Bob Dylan.  No classical cover on this album, Bob Dylan instead.  I told you they still had a few tricks left up their sleeves.  I'm not familiar with the original, and I'm not a huge Dylan fan by any stretch of the imagination, but this song isn't horrible, and has a pretty cool synth sound that permeates the song.

"Change" is the other Emerson, Olsen, Wray composition, probably the lesser of the two.  Pretty weak overall.

"Give Me a Reason to Stay" is credited to Steve Diamond and Sam Lorber.  I have no idea who those guys are.  The song is pretty basic 90's dreck and sounds nothing like anything Emerson or Lake would have written.

"Gone Too Soon" isn't too bad.  At least it's uptempo, almost catchy, and has a cool synth solo.  It's credited to Keith Wechsler, Greg Lake, and Bill Wray.  Nope, I don't know who Keith Wechsler is.

The album closes with "Street War", the final Emerson-Lake composition.  They could have gone out with a bang, or gone out with a clunker.  Oddly enough, they did both.  It's an uptempo song, and moves along nicely with Carl's backbeat and Greg's bass, but the refrain "Street War!" is clearly supposed to be a bit more exciting than it is, and the song overall is kinda silly.  Nice synth work, and a weird breakdown in the middle that's almost kinda cool, but doesn't end up going anywhere.


And thus endeth the catalogue of Emerson, Lake & Palmer.  Yeah, there's a comma now.  Originally, the idea was to include only their names, and an ampersand to make it less awkward to pronounce, but by this point I guess they didn't care anymore.  Someone included a comma in the cover art of Black Moon and no one caught it, and here it is again, and now no one cares.

Keith Emerson never stopped coming up with great synth sounds.  They're all over this album.  Carl Palmer never stopped being a force of nature on the drum kit.  Both of those guys will always be favorites of mine on their respective instruments.  Greg Lake's voice is actually stronger here than it was on Black Moon, though it's pretty clear that it will never regain the strength it had when he was in his prime.

No, the problem is that the guys ran out of ideas.  Let's be honest, the songwriting was always the weak point of this band.  It sure wasn't the playing.  Their love of the classics was a great gimmick that took them farther than anyone could have guessed, but a band has to have original material.  And they did have some great songs along the way.  But they were down to writing maybe half the material, and with the mediocre sales of this album, the old tensions between Emerson and Lake returning once again, and all of them facing health issues (Emerson has had multiple surgeries for repetitive stress related injuries, Palmer has been treated for carpal tunnel syndrome, and Lake has apparently eaten several fans), it appears that the guys have finally called it quits.

Emerson, Lake & Palmer did reuinite one last time at the High Voltage Festival in 2011.  Billed as the 40th Anniversary Reunion Concert, it's on DVD and Blu-ray if you're interested.  I caught the (edited) TV broadcast, and it was pretty much what I expected: disappointing.  Keith can still play, but he's clearly lost a lot of speed and mobility.   Lake is so huge now that I was surprised that he could move at all.  He played no guitar and very little bass, prefering to let Emerson's wall of keyboards provide the backdrop.  His voice was pretty good, but this was a one-off show, not a tour, so this was as good as it gets now.  Only Carl Palmer still had the fire.  They should have called it the Farewell Concert, though I think many suspected that that's what it really was.  So Farewell to Emerson Lake & Palmer.  It was a good run.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 11:37:26 AM by Orbert »

Offline Jaq

  • Posts: 4050
  • Gender: Male
  • Favorite song by Europe: Carrie.
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #222 on: March 17, 2013, 06:49:43 AM »
Keith Olsen was the producer of the album, and was responsible for, amongst other albums, Foreigner's Double Vision, which should tell you what you need to know about his background, mainly AOR and arena rock. He also produced the self titled Fleetwood Mac album-the one with Rhiannon- and produced the Rick Springfield album that produced Jessie's Girl as a single. So yes, his background wasn't really ELP's progressive rock style.

(Some people are into bands or particular musicians. I've got a thing for producers.)

And...not with a bang, but a whimper. The fate of all too many bands that burn as brightly as ELP did in the 70s, they tend to never be able recapture that flame once it burns out. This album has the excuse that both Emerson and Palmer were coming off medical issues and they were basically rushed to make this album, but that excuse only carries so far. Still, I guess it's best that this is the end, because it likely could have gotten worse.
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings become dust in the wake of the hymn.
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall, no more than a breath on the wind.

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #223 on: March 17, 2013, 07:10:32 AM »
The cover of Man in the Long Black Coat is awful, Orb. Do yourself a favor and YouTube the original.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #224 on: March 17, 2013, 07:44:24 AM »
Keith Olsen was the producer of the album, and was responsible for, amongst other albums, Foreigner's Double Vision, which should tell you what you need to know about his background, mainly AOR and arena rock. He also produced the self titled Fleetwood Mac album-the one with Rhiannon- and produced the Rick Springfield album that produced Jessie's Girl as a single. So yes, his background wasn't really ELP's progressive rock style.

Holy shit!  I actually did look him up earlier in the week, when I was starting my research on this album, learned most of what you've written above, and completely forgot about it last night when I did the writeup.  I forgot the facts, and even that I'd looked them up in the first place.  It's been a hell of a week.

And...not with a bang, but a whimper. The fate of all too many bands that burn as brightly as ELP did in the 70s, they tend to never be able recapture that flame once it burns out. This album has the excuse that both Emerson and Palmer were coming off medical issues and they were basically rushed to make this album, but that excuse only carries so far. Still, I guess it's best that this is the end, because it likely could have gotten worse.

It was a combination of things.  Prog wasn't cool any more, and the bands needed to get hip.  Prog fans had been saying for years that their favorite bands could write Pop, they just chose to push themselves further.  Well, it was time to put up or shut up, and it turned out that writing decent Pop was a lot harder than anyone thought.  Bringing in help from outside wasn't necessarily a bad move, and some of these songs aren't completely horrible.  Most have at least a few redeeming qualities.  But overall, I don't think ELP were that interested in trying that hard to make it work.  Emerson and Lake were back to their very contentious relationship, and working that hard to make music that wasn't really them just wasn't worth it.

The cover of Man in the Long Black Coat is awful, Orb. Do yourself a favor and YouTube the original.

I might sometime.  But I'm not big on Dylan, so it would just be out of curiosity.

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #225 on: March 17, 2013, 08:45:35 AM »
I'm not sure people who say that are aware of the body of work Dylan created in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. Not that anyone would like it per say, but usually when people are *sure* they don't like Dylan, it's actually the shrill-voiced folk music he made in the 60s that people are talking about, and usually people are very surprised to find out how much more there is. Certainly more than a band like Emerson Lake & Palmer could have hoped to ever offer :P

"Man in the Long Black Coat" is on Dylan's Oh Mercy album, from the mid 1980s. Dylan sings like a chain smoker, but many of the songs themselves are really very good, and kinda show an introspective moodier side that Dylan fans love but only seem to get once per decade.

One thing I've noticed is that no-one can seem to cover Dylan without trying way to hard to sound like him. ELP's "Man in the Long Black Coat" completely ruins the atmosphere of the original, but there you have Greg Lake rounding out his vowels and trying to phrase the lines like only Dylan really ever can.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 08:52:00 AM by Perpetual Change »

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41971
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #226 on: March 17, 2013, 09:23:00 AM »
I was so excited when I saw that ELP had a new album out in 1994 (this was pre-internet for me, so I had no idea anything new was coming out), but when I got this and started listening, it was an immediate disappointment.  Okay, I liked Hand of Truth and One by One quite a bit (and I still like them), but very little else was to my liking.  I agree with Orbert that that synth that is consistent throughout the Dylan cover is very cool, but nothing else about the cover is memorable. 

Anyway, very subpar album, for sure, but I still say that both Hand of Truth (featuring some dynamite piano work) and One by One (great outro) are both worthy ELP songs.  It's just too bad that the rest of the album sucks.

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: Black Moon (1992)
« Reply #227 on: March 22, 2013, 07:57:18 PM »
If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s

I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)

Consider yourself signed up!

Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.


I'm a little surprised Live at Royal Albert Hall isn't being covered as it really is the last decent commercial ELP live album.

There is Live In Poland from the 1997-98 tour and of course that last High Voltage gig from 2010. I've got part of that Poland gig on the Then and Now CD which a bit rough on the ears after enjoying the live stuff from earlier in their career from the previous disc.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 08:02:31 PM by ytserush »

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #228 on: March 22, 2013, 08:14:53 PM »
Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)




Hand of Truth
Daddy
One By One
Heart on Ice
Thin Line
Man in the Long Black Coat
Change
Give Me a Reason to Stay
Gone Too Soon
Street War

----------




The ONLY reason I still have this is that I bought the Japanese import that has a decent 15 and a half minute version of Pictures At An Exhibition (can't remember from where this came from at the moment) and the instrumental Hammer It Out as bonus tracks.

Those are my rewards for getting through the rest of the album.

Are we stopping here or are we getting into the bevy of vintage live material that has been released in the years after this album came out?

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15308
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #229 on: March 22, 2013, 08:42:07 PM »
I have not heard much ELP Live.   I do have the King Biscuit Flower Hour 2 disc set that was released in the mid-90's...how would you guys rate that against their other live material?   Am I missing much?   I really like the KBFH set...I just never bothered with anything else because that pretty much seems to cover it.   (though I do understand that I *really need* to get WBMF, at least for Tarkus)
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Emerson Lake & Palmer: Epilogue
« Reply #230 on: March 22, 2013, 10:11:18 PM »
ELP was my favorite band for a long time, but when they broke up after Love Beach, I moved on, and even though I checked out ELPowell and 3 to the Power of Three, for some reason I never got around to Black Moon or In the Hot Seat until this discography.  Now I'm so distraught that I really don't see the point.  I've checked out some of the live stuff that's been released recently, and there are of course countless compilations and box sets, and as far as I can tell, it's all crap.

So I'm just gonna leave it at that.  R.I.P., ELP.  If someone else wants to review any of the posthumous ELP releases, go ahead.  I'm curious about what others think of them, but I can't find decent copies of them online, and I'm not gonna buy them, so I won't be able to write them up.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41971
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #231 on: March 23, 2013, 09:44:55 AM »
If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s

I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)

Consider yourself signed up!

Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.

Well, sure, but he was in his 40s by then, and you can't always beat Father Time, but he did an awesome job on that tour from what I remember seeing live and then on the concert video.


The ONLY reason I still have this is that I bought the Japanese import that has a decent 15 and a half minute version of Pictures At An Exhibition (can't remember from where this came from at the moment) and the instrumental Hammer It Out as bonus tracks.



The U.S. version had that new version of Pictures..., too, but not that other song.  The new version of Pictures... was also included on that box set they released a year or two later.  Very good, albeit condensed, version, although it is hard to beat the rawness and intensity of the original.

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer: In the Hot Seat (1994)
« Reply #232 on: March 29, 2013, 02:51:13 PM »
If this is Keith Emerson playing Creole Dance at half speed, then sign me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tv0lIo-O7bg#t=1340s

I KNEW this was going to be from the CD/video (never upgraded to DVD on this one)

Consider yourself signed up!

Well he does top out at about three-quarters, but notice how he's really bearing down and not as effortless as it once was.

Well, sure, but he was in his 40s by then, and you can't always beat Father Time, but he did an awesome job on that tour from what I remember seeing live and then on the concert video.


Some people can, but Emerson/Lake aren't two of them.


Quote
Posted by: jammindude
« on: March 22, 2013, 10:42:07 PM » Insert Quote
I have not heard much ELP Live.   I do have the King Biscuit Flower Hour 2 disc set that was released in the mid-90's...how would you guys rate that against their other live material?   Am I missing much?   I really like the KBFH set...I just never bothered with anything else because that pretty much seems to cover it.   (though I do understand that I *really need* to get WBMF, at least for Tarkus)


Part of that King Biscuit show is actually different mixes of the some of the performances on the Welcome Back My Friends album.

They have official bootleg boxes that they issued way back when, but depending on the show you could probably find bootlegs themselves that sound better than what was released.

For those that like the first album. The Live at The Isle of Wight is a good choice as it was their second performance ever.







Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #233 on: December 28, 2015, 08:57:18 AM »
I just first heard of this band an hour ago.. I walked into work this morning and some streaming music service was playing what sounded to me like Dream Theater but it also sounded like something from the 70's, I went to the main computer to check it out and it was a song called Trilogy, man it's pretty great stuff! I love prog that has more music wankery than singing tbh and it's too early to say since I only heard this song but I'm hoping more of their music is like that. Are they consistent in their style through their discography? Which album do you recommend I start with?
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #234 on: December 28, 2015, 09:56:52 AM »
The song you heard is the title track from their fourth album, and that's actually a pretty good starting point for you, since you've already heard the title track and like it.  ELP were definitely heavy on the musical wankery.  I suggest checking out the album Trilogy, then Tarkus.  The title suite from Tarkus is a classic, and four of the seven movements are instrumentals.  ELP had more instrumentals than most of their contemporaries.  From there, I would say either the debut self-titled, or Brain Salad Surgery, which is regarded by many as their peak.  Pictures at an Exhibition is very good, but a bit unbalanced, and it's an adaptation of the famous classical work by Mussorgsky and thus might not be for everyone.  If you're fine with classical rock adaptations, go for it.

At some point, you'll want to check out the first live album, Welcome Back, My Friends, to the Show that Never Ends... Ladies and Gentleman -- Emerson Lake & Palmer.  Yes, that whole thing is the title, because it's a line from one of their epic songs from Brain Salad Surgery, and the live album is from that tour.  That live album is required listening for any 70's prog fan, especially those into musical wankery.

For listening tips, read back through this discography and the discussions of each album.  For now (and perhaps forever) avoid anything after the initial run, although Works Volume One has some good stuff.

Offline Progmetty

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7129
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #235 on: December 28, 2015, 10:16:31 AM »
Sweet! Thanks Orbert, you rock  :metal
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #236 on: December 30, 2015, 07:50:51 AM »

For listening tips, read back through this discography and the discussions of each album.  For now (and perhaps forever) avoid anything after the initial run, although Works Volume One has some good stuff.

Personally, I think Pirates and Fanfare for the Common Man are essential, and while "In The Hot Seat" is not for everyone's tastes (and certainly not if you are expecting more of "Tarkus" or "Trilogy") but "Black Moon" is worthy.   

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19274
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #237 on: December 30, 2015, 08:30:53 AM »
I love Pirates.  Fanfare has not aged well with me.  Sure, it's cool what they've done with it, but I've never warmed up to the crappy sound of the GX-1 synthesizer.  It just sounds so thin and weak compared to the Moog, any Moog.

I figured five albums plus a triple live were more than enough to get started, and if he wants to explore more, it's all here.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #238 on: December 30, 2015, 10:56:19 AM »
I love Pirates.  Fanfare has not aged well with me.  Sure, it's cool what they've done with it, but I've never warmed up to the crappy sound of the GX-1 synthesizer.  It just sounds so thin and weak compared to the Moog, any Moog.

Won't argue that at all.  I saw them in '93 from the third row in New Haven, and they played Pirates and it just SLAYED.  So, so good. Plus Carl Palmer either gave me or the woman next to me a point and a nod with his stick during the song, so it's extra special.  ;)

Quote
I figured five albums plus a triple live were more than enough to get started, and if he wants to explore more, it's all here.

No argument there; that live album is really strong, if you're into the band.  Quintessential 70's, with the songs split across records, and song order shuffled to accommodate vinyl...

Offline ytserush

  • Posts: 5406
  • Like clockwork...
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #239 on: January 02, 2016, 12:03:50 PM »
Sweet! Thanks Orbert, you rock  :metal

And if you want modern day live arrangements of much of this stuff check out the Carl Palmer Band.

That is if you can handle guitar interpretations of the keyboard work because that's how it's re-imagined these days. Some people don't think it works very well, but I'm not one of those people.

Offline Azyiu

  • Posts: 2095
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #240 on: January 02, 2016, 07:31:10 PM »
Slightly off topic, but I've been wanting to hear DT play their version of Tarkus since 2005 or so...
1949, 1950, 1952, 1953,
1954, 1972, 1980, 1982,
1985, 1987, 1988, 2000,
2001, 2002, 2009, 2010... 2020

Offline The Letter M

  • Posts: 15560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #241 on: January 03, 2016, 03:20:45 AM »
Slightly off topic, but I've been wanting to hear DT play their version of Tarkus since 2005 or so...

I think the closest we'll get to that is Jordan's cover of it in his album The Road Home.

-Marc.
ATTENTION - HAKEN FANS! The HAKEN SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline TheAtliator

  • Sixdegrematichaos onachristmasmorning
  • Posts: 1587
  • Gender: Male

Offline Fritzinger

  • Posts: 2556
  • Gender: Male
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #243 on: January 18, 2018, 12:13:02 AM »
Yeah, one of their videos has been postet in the Crimso thread also! They're pretty awesome, I wound up watching all their videos :D
any rock can be made to roll

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43493
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Emerson Lake & Palmer Discography
« Reply #244 on: January 18, 2018, 10:23:17 AM »
ELP is one of those bands that I won't listen to in a while, then I'll hear something and go "Holy shit I forgot how much I love this!".   For a band that was as kitchy and cheesy at times (they are the quintessential 70's dinosaur rock band in many ways) they really have stood the test of time for the most part.