First Prog Rock Album Ever

[rogerdil]

Yeah, for full disclosure, haven't heard The Nice, so could be.  My sole mission is to disprove ITCOTCK as first prog album.

[Prog Snob]

This is one of those benefit of hindsight things that's always kind of funny to read, since people champion Album X or Album Y as being "the first" when the truth is, back then, critics and fans alike were still looking for a way to define this new genre. Retroactively, it became progressive rock, but at the time? Some people called it prog, some people called it art rock, and I can tell you that it's highly unlikely they called Crimson King prog when it came out. To properly answer this question, you have to agree on what MAKES prog. I see the Moody Blues and the Beatles as being influences on what became prog, but I don't see them as making prog albums. I think you could argue, convincingly, that in terms of what prog BECAME, The Nice was the first true prog band, but In The Court Of The Crimson King is the album where the subgenre began to gain commercial acceptance. But the evolution of music is such that it's really hard to pinpoint the exact moment a genre came into existence as it's happening. You can really only do that backwards, and even then, it depends on how knowledgeable you are about the music of the period.

That brings up an excellent point Jaq and one I was trying to make earlier regarding The Moody Blues.  However, I do agree with your assessment of The Nice as the first "true prog band."  I actually had not heard their first album until last night but immediately understood why many people consider them to be the first.  Up until them I thought it was either King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Sgt. Pepper or The Moody Blues.  At least we seem to have narrowed it down to just a few bands/albums.  I would definitely dismiss KC first because ItCofCK came out after The Moodies and The Nice.

[Prog Snob]

Yeah, for full disclosure, haven't heard The Nice, so could be.  My sole mission is to disprove ITCOTCK as first prog album.

I believe we already have.  So you win.   

[rogerdil]

Cool!  Wonder how Zappa and Hendrix fall into this.  I guess latter is "dismissed" as a psychedelic oddity and there seems to be a tacit detente as to the former: most Zappa fans don't want him to be called mere prog and prog fans don't want him to be called prog, so some unspoken deal has been struck.

By the way, 1969 has Trout Mask Replica (June) and Hot Rats (October).

[Prog Snob]

And don't forget the Mothers of Invention which came out in 1966.  I never listened to them but would that be considered prog?

[The Letter M]

And don't forget the Mothers of Invention which came out in 1966.  I never listened to them but would that be considered prog?

Perhaps? I have, on the backside of my bedroom door, a fold-out poster from Classic Rock magazine titled "The 50 Albums That Built Prog Rock". The first eight are (in chronological order):
Freak Out - The Mothers Of Invention
Pet Sounds - The Beach Boys
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles
Procol Harum - Procol Harum
The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn - Pink Floyd
Days Of Future Passed - The Moody Blues
The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack - The Nice
In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson

Many of these albums have already been mentioned, but it's neat to note that they list 7 albums BEFORE King Crimson's debut.

-Marc.

[Prog Snob]

And don't forget the Mothers of Invention which came out in 1966.  I never listened to them but would that be considered prog?

Perhaps? I have, on the backside of my bedroom door, a fold-out poster from Classic Rock magazine titled "The 50 Albums That Built Prog Rock". The first eight are (in chronological order):
Freak Out - The Mothers Of Invention
Pet Sounds - The Beach Boys
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles
Procol Harum - Procol Harum
The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn - Pink Floyd
Days Of Future Passed - The Moody Blues
The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack - The Nice
In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson

Many of these albums have already been mentioned, but it's neat to note that they list 7 albums BEFORE King Crimson's debut.

-Marc.

Interesting. I'd love to see that poster. I wonder if I can do a search for it.  Now, that does say "built prog rock." Obviously Pet Sounds is NOT a prog album so that still leaves open to discussion what the first prog rock album really is.  If there really even is a definitive answer.

[The Letter M]

A little Google-Fu and here you go!

-Marc.

[masterthes]

that looks glorious!

[jsem]

WDADU is the only DT entry in there... that's unfortunate.

[rogerdil]

LOL dubious latter day picks. Never mind, Volume Two is on there *appeased*

[The Letter M]

WDADU is the only DT entry in there... that's unfortunate.

Remember, it's about albums that establish things in Prog, not ones that champion it. If you wanted to see DT's better albums on a list, it'd be "The 50 BEST prog albums", not the 50 albums that BUILT prog.  I mean, I could have picked "better" albums from Kansas, Marillion, Rush, and several other bands on that list (prior to the 90's at least), but they were all albums that exemplified what was already common in prog, not albums that innovated or brought something new/interesting to the table. Think of it likes shoes - sure, there are better shoes, but the ones that started certain trends/fads/ideas/inventions/accomplishments were the ones that started it all (built), not the ones that get recognized because they're better/more famous (better).

DT's debut is known for being one of the pioneering Prog Metal albums, as they were one of the (if not THAT only) pioneering Prog Metal bands. All of these albums on the list were chosen because something on, in, or about them carries a defining characteristic that contributes to prog over-all, whether it's the album itself, or that it is a debut from a band that contributes a lot to prog.

-Marc.

[rogerdil]

Kudos for The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other inclusion as well

[Pelata]

First Prog Album: Sgt Pepper

I concur....

[Prog Snob]

WDADU is the only DT entry in there... that's unfortunate.

Remember, it's about albums that establish things in Prog, not ones that champion it. If you wanted to see DT's better albums on a list, it'd be "The 50 BEST prog albums", not the 50 albums that BUILT prog.  I mean, I could have picked "better" albums from Kansas, Marillion, Rush, and several other bands on that list (prior to the 90's at least), but they were all albums that exemplified what was already common in prog, not albums that innovated or brought something new/interesting to the table. Think of it likes shoes - sure, there are better shoes, but the ones that started certain trends/fads/ideas/inventions/accomplishments were the ones that started it all (built), not the ones that get recognized because they're better/more famous (better).

DT's debut is known for being one of the pioneering Prog Metal albums, as they were one of the (if not THAT only) pioneering Prog Metal bands. All of these albums on the list were chosen because something on, in, or about them carries a defining characteristic that contributes to prog over-all, whether it's the album itself, or that it is a debut from a band that contributes a lot to prog.

-Marc.

Thanks for the photo!   

[The Letter M]

No Prob Prog Snob! (try saying THAT five times fast!)

I enjoy having this poster on my door, although as big of a prog fan as I am, I only own a little over half of the albums on the list! I have yet to get into the other early 70's prog bands on the list, especially the none US/Canadian/British ones.

-Marc.

[Prog Snob]

No Prob Prog Snob! (try saying THAT five times fast!)

I enjoy having this poster on my door, although as big of a prog fan as I am, I only own a little over half of the albums on the list! I have yet to get into the other early 70's prog bands on the list, especially the none US/Canadian/British ones.

-Marc.

I own a little less than half.  I need to catch up on my foundations.   

[KevShmev]

Cool list, but Asia's debut and 90125 are on there?  Don't get me wrong, I think both are really good pop rock records, but neither are prog.  In fact, both of those albums turned off a lot of prog fans because they weren't prog.

[The Letter M]

Cool list, but Asia's debut and 90125 are on there?  Don't get me wrong, I think both are really good pop rock records, but neither are prog.  In fact, both of those albums turned off a lot of prog fans because they weren't prog.

I think their inclusion provides a glimpse into the 80's sound that prog musicians were trying out, and weren't afraid to show off their names in. I'd say, of any 70's-prog-goes-80's albums deserve to be on the list, it'd be those two (along with Genesis' Abacab). Sure, it's not "prog as we know it", but it's not radio-hit pop-rock either. It's pop-prog (if you believe in such a thing), and they're two of the best examples of it.

-Marc.

[rogerdil]

Don't have a lot either and not sweating it since lots of ones that could have been included, weren't.

[skydivingninja]

I'd say its either Sgt. Pepper, In the Court of the Crimson King, or Days of Future Passed. 

Also, why is WDADU mentioned in favor of Images?  Seems to me Images is a lot more responsible for that brand of prog metal since people actually listened to it

[Pols Voice]

Weird poster. Some of the picks are totally spot on and others are waaay off.

[Elite]

Regarding WDADU, I've always had trouble thinking of it as a 'prog' album. Yes, it does have some proggier tracks, for the sake of giving it a name, but songs like Afterlife, Status Seeker and even A Fortune in Lies are pretty straightforward.

[FsF]

I know, the amount of bands I hear on the radio nowadays playing in 15/16 

Having haphazardly browsed YouTube while reading this thread, i'd say that 'The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack' was the earliest album my ears recognize as "proper" Prog Rock. Not to say that others don't have elements/influence etc.

I will be checking out more Soft Machine though. Gave 'Volume 2' a quick listen, and definitely liked what I heard!

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

I've heard that The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack by The Nice is considered the first prog album but I'm not really sure.

This is my choice. I don't consider Sgt. Pepper anywhere near prog whatsoever though.

[Prog Snob]

We could always put it to a vote. 

[Pols Voice]

I just listened to the Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack and, although there are prog elements, I still hear a lot of psych (sorry rogerdil), and songs like Rondo have that late 60s jam quality to them. One of the cornerstones of prog IMO is the introduction of complex rhythms and time signatures. If we call this the first prog album, I wouldn't say it's the first GOOD prog album. Most of it isn't my cup of tea.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Well if we go straight for pure prog, then it's ItCotCK without question.

[jsem]

WDADU is the only DT entry in there... that's unfortunate.

Remember, it's about albums that establish things in Prog, not ones that champion it.

-Marc.

I fully understand, but still think it's unfortunate.

[Prog Snob]

But what did WDADU establish?  I would think I & W is what brought DT out from behind the veil and established a new sound  for prog. 

[Ħ]

Yeah, WDADU is completely obscure and not influential to prog in the slightest. It should be IAW and/or SFAM up there.

[Jaq]

WDADU established the career of Dream Theater, of course. 

Much like the notion that "prog began with King Crimson" doesn't really hold up to scrutiny if you have a knowledge of the music scene of the late sixties, "prog metal began with Images & Words" doesn't either. I&W is basically to prog metal what In The Court Of The Crimson King was to prog; the album where the genre became commercially acceptable. Fates Warning's Perfect Symmetry came out three years earlier than I&W and is demonstrably a prog metal album. (If you ask me, it should be on the poster instead of WDADU, as they both came out in 1989, but Perfect Symmetry tends to be massively overlooked in the evolution of prog metal, as is Fates Warning.) I think it's fair to put WDADU on the poster because it's the band's first album, and at that time, progressive metal didn't exist. If you were around back then, any band with a remotely progressive tinge to their sound "sounded like Rush."  I&W is the seminal, classic, quintessential prog metal album, but it isn't the first or the one that established the new song for prog. Just the one the world noticed first.

[rogerdil]

Plus, whole thing can be nitpicked like any list.  For example, why "Angel's Egg" for Gong.  Great album but why not one of the two albums that preceded it (if we're using chronology and "influential" itself as a yardstick)?

[Prog Snob]

WDADU established the career of Dream Theater, of course. 

Much like the notion that "prog began with King Crimson" doesn't really hold up to scrutiny if you have a knowledge of the music scene of the late sixties, "prog metal began with Images & Words" doesn't either. I&W is basically to prog metal what In The Court Of The Crimson King was to prog; the album where the genre became commercially acceptable. Fates Warning's Perfect Symmetry came out three years earlier than I&W and is demonstrably a prog metal album. (If you ask me, it should be on the poster instead of WDADU, as they both came out in 1989, but Perfect Symmetry tends to be massively overlooked in the evolution of prog metal, as is Fates Warning.) I think it's fair to put WDADU on the poster because it's the band's first album, and at that time, progressive metal didn't exist. If you were around back then, any band with a remotely progressive tinge to their sound "sounded like Rush."  I&W is the seminal, classic, quintessential prog metal album, but it isn't the first or the one that established the new song for prog. Just the one the world noticed first.

While, I do agree that Fates Warning is perpetually left out of prog metal origins discussions I & W is what brought the genre to the forefront.  We all know Perfect Symmetry and Parallels predate I & W, but it would be like saying my band made a prog metal album in 1986 so we established prog metal.  I & W made people go - holy shit what is that (for good and bad)  - and realize it was this "fresh" sound.  That's why I say that I & W established (made firm, gained acceptance) the prog metal genre.  I didn't say they were the first, but no one knew what prog metal was before that.  Some could argue that Operation:Mindcrime was the first, but to me that is just straight ahead metal.

[Implode]

It's actually Octavarium for me. I think that's what got me into prog.